Graffight
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2008
- Messages
- 460
- Reaction score
- 117
- Location
- Pittsburgh PA
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian
Reproductive choice is legal, and murder of the unborn is immorally legal.
However we will overturn that some day. :sword:
Really? Compared to which European country? How about Canada, it has no abortion laws and abortion rates there are not higher than in the US? Maybe you should educate yourself a bit before posting...America has the most liberal abortion laws even compared to Europe
Yep, but not everyone wipes theirs. Just like how some opinions are full of crap :mrgreen:Yep: that's an opinion alright.
Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one.
No it isn't. the pro-life movement is growing and hopefully through our efforts we will abolish abortion and have the state realize it for what is really is: murder.Now this, this is a delusion.
Delusions are like hemorrhoids: only some people have them.
America has the most liberal abortion laws even compared to EuropeReally? Compared to which European country? How about Canada, it has no abortion laws and abortion rates there are not higher than in the US? Maybe you should educate yourself a bit before posting...
Yes, yes we do have some of the most liberal abortion laws even compared to Europe. Here is a website that lists the abortion laws of many European countries http://www.pregnantpause.org/lex/lexeuro.htm
Most of them restrict abortion up to certain weeks/trimesters. Some countries have abortion completely illegal as well. In America you can get an abortion on demand during any stage of pregnancy, and the federal government recently overturned bans on partial birth abortion! We do have pretty much the most liberal laws on abortion.
You can now rest asure that they still do not.I was formerly pro choice because I believed that no woman intended to kill babies.
But now that they still can not, not do they wish to kill their children, you are OK with dehumanizing them. You must have had an epiphany.It always sat wrong with me to demonize mothers, because I didn't believe their intent was to kill innocent children.
You researched the wrong aspect and cam up a minute late and many reasons short. Everybody knows what species it is and that it is alive. Some realize what that amounts to and some can not find reasons to justify believing that it is more.As i have researched the topic I have found that there is only one central topic that is important to issue. What is the unborn?
Not only another story but a nother dimension too...If it is not human life then it can be discarded, willi nilli, no problem. However if it is then the reasons generally given for abortion are not sufficient justification. The reason I say this is the only important issue on the subject of abortion is simple, If my daughter were to come up behind me and say "daddy can I kill it" my first question would be what is "it". If it's a bug...that might be fine, but if it's her sister...well that's another story.
Really? Most people just deduct that humans beget humans, simple as that.First I we can know that the unborn is human life for many reasons.
You are catching on...2) If allowed to let grow naturally it will never turn into anything else but a human, and species reproduce after their own kind (though sometimes it may die due to natural causes...but everybody does that eventually)
Not everywhere and certainly not for the same reason if say you are killed.3) Under the law in any other circumstance if it is killed against the mother's will it is considered murder.
But you forgot that those nutrients have already been metabolized by the pregnant woman, or you missed that part of the biology lesson?4) It metabolizes nutrients and transfers them to energy
Really? Maybe you should look that up again.5) It has it's own brain, lungs, heart and blood that are totally distinct from the mother
While you are at it , look this one up too.6) It responds to stimuli
Good on you mate just as long as you keep iot to yourself and do not try to force it on the rest of society. The STFOOOPL argument is even more compeling.I believe abortion should be illegal because all arguments try to disqualify the unborn from being life for one of 4 reasons. The S.L.E.D. argument was very compelling to me.
Assuming you even know what that means, can you support that effect with anything?Another reason I'm against abortion is because it has the same effect on the African American community as eugenics.
No it isn't. the pro-life movement is growing and hopefully through our efforts we will abolish abortion and have the state realize it for what is really is: murder.
I'm curious about something digs. Do you actually believe that making abortion illegal will reduce the number of women that get abortions? Or is it just a moral victory?
It will bring justice. any woman who attempts to illegally abort her child would be charged with murder/attemptive murder. It would be having the law and society recognize abortion for what it really is, murder. It would bring justice and criminalize abortion. I do believe that less abortions would result, and any illegal abortion that was caught would be dealt with accordingly with the woman charged with murder.I'm curious about something digs. Do you actually believe that making abortion illegal will reduce the number of women that get abortions? Or is it just a moral victory?
Reproductive choice is legal, and murder of the unborn is immorally legal. However we will overturn that some day. America has the most liberal abortion laws even compared to Europe, yet we are more socially conservative and the pro-life movement is growing. Some fight for gay marriage because they believe it's immoral to prevent two people of the same sex from marrying, we stand to make abortion illegal because we believe no woman has the right to kill what is in her womb.
It's easy for someone who never has to face an unwanted pregnancy to say that a woman should have to go through it. Not knowing what it's like to be in that situation and being biologically incapable of being able to know what it's like to be in that situation, I have always felt that it shouldn't be up to me or anyone other than the woman going through it.
educating the populace on when and how a person's life begins
I was formerly pro choice because I believed that no woman intended to kill babies. It always sat wrong with me to demonize mothers, because I didn't believe their intent was to kill innocent children.
As i have researched the topic I have found that there is only one central topic that is important to issue. What is the unborn? If it is not human life then it can be discarded, willi nilli, no problem. However if it is then the reasons generally given for abortion are not sufficient justification. The reason I say this is the only important issue on the subject of abortion is simple, If my daughter were to come up behind me and say "daddy can I kill it" my first question would be what is "it". If it's a bug...that might be fine, but if it's her sister...well that's another story.
In the same way we have to make our decision about abortion based on whether or not the unborn is human life.
First I we can know that the unborn is human life for many reasons.
1) because it has it's own DNA completely separate from the mother/father.
2) If allowed to let grow naturally it will never turn into anything else but a human, and species reproduce after their own kind (though sometimes it may die due to natural causes...but everybody does that eventually)
3) Under the law in any other circumstance if it is killed against the mother's will it is considered murder.
4) It metabolizes nutrients and transfers them to energy
5) It has it's own brain, lungs, heart and blood that are totally distinct from the mother
6) It responds to stimuli
I believe abortion should be illegal because all arguments try to disqualify the unborn from being life for one of 4 reasons. The S.L.E.D. argument was very compelling to me.
S ize/physical appearance
L evel of development
E nvironment
D egree of dependency
All 4 of these reasons are invalid reasons to take the life of an human being.
The one and only instance in which I would allow abortion would be if the life of the mother is in danger. This would be considered justifiable homicide, and would be justifiable under the law in other circumstances...these types of abortions along with rape and incest related abortions only account for less than 5% of all abortions. These abortions are really not the issue.
Another reason I'm against abortion is because it has the same effect on the African American community as eugenics. African American women account for 38% while only making up 13% of the female population. Abortions are had primarily by lower economic class citizens, and this is a huge problem.
I've always found the idea of men having any non pro-choice opinion on abortion incredibily hypocritical and borderline sexist.
Do you really think that's something that can be taught to people. It's a matter of opinion. Sure, you can express your opinion to everyone through government programs, but that's not going to make them believe it. I don't know, I just don't think you can teach an opinion.
In the same way we have to make our decision about abortion based on whether or not the unborn is human life.
Elective abortion will never be illegal in this country again. That's just a fact. I know saying this is going to bother some people,...
I know saying this is going to bother some people but I've always found the idea of men having any non pro-choice opinion on abortion incredibily hypocritical and borderline sexist.
You may be right,... but elective abortion will have to remain legal despite an ever increasing determination to see that it doesn't.
Even men who are or were single parents with full custody?
I raised my daughter by myself with little to no help from my ex. I raised her from the age of 2 to 11 before I finally remarried. While I was raising her, I took care of my ailing Grandmother for 5 years or more while working at home and taking care of both. When I remarried (a woman) we moved my ailing Step Mother and father in with us,... She had a braintumor and due to her meds had two artificial hips and an artificial shoulder. I was the only one strong enough to get her a shower,... up off the floor when she fell, etc. (and she fell a lot),... Then my wife suffers a full cardiac arrest,... and I still have to care for her in ways you may never understand or appreciate due to her Anoxic brain injury,....
I know I'm not there yet,... but could you please ****ing tell me when I (a very tired middle aged man) have done enough to earn the right to speak his mind on women's issues?
Do you really think that's something that can be taught to people. It's a matter of opinion. Sure, you can express your opinion to everyone through government programs, but that's not going to make them believe it. I don't know, I just don't think you can teach an opinion.
I don't think that having one opinion which I find (borderline) sexist makes you a real sexist. It's not that I don't understand the intentions of people who are pro life, it's just that since you will never go through that experience the idea of a you saying what someone who is going through it can and cannot do with their own body seems very hypocritical to me.
The first amendment gives everyone the right (equally) to speak their mind, to assemble and to petition the government for redress. I frankly wish more women would step up,.... But I will not let women who fear they may one day have to deal with and un-planned pregnancy silence my efforts to defend the rights of their children.
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