Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516:1716:2243]

[imyoda]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

Because this isn't what you want. What you, and every other anti-gun nut wants is the complete removal of guns from the hands of citizens. If you say that gun owners are lying, at least have the decency to admit your own lies.

I am not anti-gun....I am as strong believer in he second amendment and the SCOTUS interpretation of it.......... And know the complete removal of guns is unconstitutional and will/would never be allowed....... SCOTUS would declare and law attempting to do so as unconstitutional........

I do not think I ever said gun owners liars...... I have no reason to believe or think so......

And I resent being characterized as you have........You do not know me or who I am.......and have no right to accuse me of such things........You should apologize to me........that is if you can man up to it........

 

[Mark F]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

There is plenty of dishonest trickery and ideological hyperbole to go around on both sides. Neither side has a monopoly on it.

 

[matchlight]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

Why Gun Nuts Lie ? I Know From Experience
Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

“………I also understand and appreciate our Constitution. I’m fully aware of the 2nd Amendment, and how its authors wanted to prevent government tyranny. Considering what they had gone through, they had every right to demand such a thing.”


There are lots of reasons why people lie. And without question they lie about guns. But to eliminate the author suggests there is no need to lie if following proposal is implemented which will end all the controversy:



“Treat guns like cars.

Mandatory licenses
License renewals
Mandatory training
Mandatory insurance
Operating laws
Operating age limits
Restrict some models
Require safety inspections
Mandatory registration
Background checks
With this, the manufacturers of guns are never held accountable for the actions of people who abuse their products.

Do we have a deal?

Let’s stop acting like there are only 2 sides of this argument. We’re killing each other. Literally.
Please, for the love of logic, stop using outdated ridiculous concepts of tyranny to defend the dying dinosaur that is our 2nd Amendment.
Like it or not, it needs an update”


I think this is a great idea and will go a long way to end the controversy and eliminate the need to lie

SEE:
Why Gun Nuts Lie ? I Know From Experience

Your attempt to liken gun ownership to car ownership has been made many times before, and it is just as silly now as ever. The fatal problem for that analogy, which is obvious except to the unthinking or intellectually dishonest, is that the Constitution protects gun ownership but does not protect car ownership. Almost everything on your list would almost certainly be unconstitutional.

 

[countryboy]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

You do know all that stuff minus background checks are only required if you plan to drive on a road paid for by the government. Do not need to do that to have and operate a car on private property.

Sigh, how many times does this have to be explained to the Grabbers? Driving a car is not a constitutional right. End of story.

 

[blaxshep]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

I am not anti-gun....I am as strong believer in he second amendment and the SCOTUS interpretation of it.......... And know the complete removal of guns is unconstitutional and will/would never be allowed....... SCOTUS would declare and law attempting to do so as unconstitutional........

I do not think I ever said gun owners liars...... I have no reason to believe or think so......

And I resent being characterized as you have........You do not know me or who I am.......and have no right to accuse me of such things........You should apologize to me........that is if you can man up to it........

Gun control is incremental, if the SCOTUS can "interpret" fully automatic arms to be exempt from "the right to keep and bare arms" which makes nor implies such distinctions and gun regulation is NOT a power even enumerated to the Fed then the next thing is 30 round magazines then when criminals still don't follow the law it will be 10 round magazines and more and more and more, at what point would you cease being a as strong believer in he second amendment and the SCOTUS interpretation of it..........

 

[jet57]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

Why Gun Nuts Lie ? I Know From Experience
Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

“………I also understand and appreciate our Constitution. I’m fully aware of the 2nd Amendment, and how its authors wanted to prevent government tyranny. Considering what they had gone through, they had every right to demand such a thing.”


There are lots of reasons why people lie. And without question they lie about guns. But to eliminate the author suggests there is no need to lie if following proposal is implemented which will end all the controversy:



“Treat guns like cars.

Mandatory licenses
License renewals
Mandatory training
Mandatory insurance
Operating laws
Operating age limits
Restrict some models
Require safety inspections
Mandatory registration
Background checks
With this, the manufacturers of guns are never held accountable for the actions of people who abuse their products.

Do we have a deal?

Let’s stop acting like there are only 2 sides of this argument. We’re killing each other. Literally.
Please, for the love of logic, stop using outdated ridiculous concepts of tyranny to defend the dying dinosaur that is our 2nd Amendment.
Like it or not, it needs an update”


I think this is a great idea and will go a long way to end the controversy and eliminate the need to lie

SEE:
Why Gun Nuts Lie ? I Know From Experience

Very very well said. It's what those of us on the common sense side of the argument have been saying all along.

The biggest truth is the article is this:

Just be honest. You like it because it makes your pee-pee big, and when you fire it, it gives you a tingle in your no-no place.

That's the beginning and end of gun crowd argument. All the rest of the garbage they throw in there into it is just trying to cover up THAT fact. So it boils down to a want not a need. And it's also why the country's common sense majority is closing in on this small minority ego faction.

 

[imyoda]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

I'd say that probably depends on which state.

I know of one vehicle that never leaves private property and isn't licensed (no plate) and I'd wager that it isn't registered (for use on public roads) either.

I also recall a DUI case where the drunk moved his car on his own driveway, and never got on the public street. I do believe that the charges were dropped.

I guess laws apply differently in public spaces vs. private spaces.

No the law is common to all states as far as I know......

Here is one example:

Violation for Expired Registration While Vehicle is Parked on Private Property

.

Keeping an unregistered and/or inoperable vehicle on private property where it's visible from the street is almost a universal violation in every city and town.

This is the Illinois controlling statute:

The page cannot be found

You would have to read your local ordnance for details.

And lest you jump on the "notice" requirement in the state law, read the following decision of the Illinois Court of Appeals which says:

"the City was under no obligation to warn
defendant of the violation prior to filing its
complaint. Citizens are presumed to know and
comply with city codes, and we have long held
a city is under no obligation to provide defendant
with time to remedy his or her violation before
bringing suit."

http://www.state.il.us/court/R23_Ord...110829_R23.pdf

I also doubt that covering the vehicle with a tarp or cover would eliminate the possibility of a citation as it would still obviously be a vehicle and would be unsightly.

Best to put it in the garage, carport (with a cover), or back yard behind a fence, or in storage off premises.
Violation for Expired Registration While Vehicle is Parked on Private Property

 

[imyoda]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

not in my state.

And just to point out.. with all the licensing requirments.. etc that you listed... vehicular accidents are still one of the leading causes of death in this country.

and that's because none of that BS you listed really makes folks much if any safer.

I just got into this argument over drivers licenses.

"but it makes sure people are safe"..

Well beyond the fact that again.. vehicular accidents are a leading cause of death...

My son will take his drivers test in a few months. The likelihood is that HE WILL NEVER EVER TAKE ANOTHER DRIVERS TEST AGAIN. In perhaps 70 years of driving.

Yet you really think that test 70 years ago.. is keeping you safe?

Please.

I have no idea of what you speak to.............the issue being discussed is can one be cited for having an unlicensed vehicle of private property.....

 

[imyoda]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

You're asking him to prove the non-existence of something...

What do you expect him to do? Copy-paste every sentence of traffic law and related judgments?

Yes I know........and deliberate on my part too..........

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

No the law is common to all states as far as I know......

Here is one example:

Violation for Expired Registration While Vehicle is Parked on Private Property

.

Keeping an unregistered and/or inoperable vehicle on private property where it's visible from the street is almost a universal violation in every city and town.

This is the Illinois controlling statute:

The page cannot be found

You would have to read your local ordnance for details.

And lest you jump on the "notice" requirement in the state law, read the following decision of the Illinois Court of Appeals which says:

"the City was under no obligation to warn
defendant of the violation prior to filing its
complaint. Citizens are presumed to know and
comply with city codes, and we have long held
a city is under no obligation to provide defendant
with time to remedy his or her violation before
bringing suit."

http://www.state.il.us/court/R23_Ord...110829_R23.pdf

I also doubt that covering the vehicle with a tarp or cover would eliminate the possibility of a citation as it would still obviously be a vehicle and would be unsightly.

Best to put it in the garage, carport (with a cover), or back yard behind a fence, or in storage off premises.
Violation for Expired Registration While Vehicle is Parked on Private Property

I thought your position has already been debunked.

There is no statue where you are required to license and register a vehicle that does not use public roads, one that's restricted to private property.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

A clear violation of the Constitution. Gun regulation is not an enumerated power granted to the Fed, and since he wasn't selling it the commerce clause does not even apply.

You tell that to the feds in 1976.

 

[blaxshep]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

You tell that to the feds in 1976.

Ill bet its even worse today, he'd probably be in jail or labeled a terrorist.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

This I understand.........One can never get claptrap minds to open and consider anything which may challenge or disprove what they wish to believe........and am, often told.......even in light of evidence proving otherwise

Looks like you insisting registration laws apply to private property.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

No the law is common to all states as far as I know......

Here is one example:

Violation for Expired Registration While Vehicle is Parked on Private Property

Keeping an unregistered and/or inoperable vehicle on private property where it's visible from the street is almost a universal violation in every city and town.

This is the Illinois controlling statute:

The page cannot be found

You would have to read your local ordnance for details.

And lest you jump on the "notice" requirement in the state law, read the following decision of the Illinois Court of Appeals which says:

"the City was under no obligation to warn
defendant of the violation prior to filing its
complaint. Citizens are presumed to know and
comply with city codes, and we have long held
a city is under no obligation to provide defendant
with time to remedy his or her violation before
bringing suit."

http://www.state.il.us/court/R23_Ord...110829_R23.pdf

I also doubt that covering the vehicle with a tarp or cover would eliminate the possibility of a citation as it would still obviously be a vehicle and would be unsightly.

Best to put it in the garage, carport (with a cover), or back yard behind a fence, or in storage off premises.
Violation for Expired Registration While Vehicle is Parked on Private Property

Wrong again.....

Uber wrong at this point.

Neither state wide nor is the citation for NOT BEING REGISTERED.

(65 ILCS 5/11-40-3) (from Ch. 24, par. 11-40-3)
Sec. 11-40-3. Subject to the provisions of Section 11-40-3.1 of this Code, the corporate authorities of each municipality may by ordinance declare all inoperable motor vehicles, whether on public or private property and in view of the general public, to be a nuisance and authorize fines to be levied for the failure of any person to obey a notice received from the municipality which states that such person is to dispose of any inoperable motor vehicles under his control, and may authorize a law enforcement agency, with applicable jurisdiction, to remove, after 7 days from the issuance of the municipal notice, any inoperable motor vehicle or parts thereof. However, nothing in this Section shall apply to any motor vehicle that is kept within a building when not in use, to operable historic vehicles over 25 years of age, or to a motor vehicle on the premises of a place of business engaged in the wrecking or junking of motor vehicles.

As used in this Section, "inoperable motor vehicle" means any motor vehicle from which, for a period of at least 7 days or any greater period fixed by ordinance, the engine, wheels or other parts have been removed, or on which the engine, wheels or other parts have been altered, damaged or otherwise so treated that the vehicle is incapable of being driven under its own motor power. "Inoperable motor vehicle" shall not include a motor vehicle which has been rendered temporarily incapable of being driven under its own motor power in order to perform ordinary service or repair operations.
(Source: P.A. 86-460.)


Now for the STATE law:

(625 ILCS 5/3-401) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 3-401)
Sec. 3-401. Effect of provisions.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to violate any provision of this Chapter or to drive or move or for an owner knowingly to permit to be driven or moved upon any highway any vehicle of a type required to be registered hereunder which is not registered or for which the appropriate fee has not been paid when and as required hereunder, except that when application accompanied by proper fee has been made for registration of a vehicle it may be operated temporarily pending complete registration upon displaying a duplicate application duly verified or other evidence of such application or otherwise under rules and regulations promulgated by the Secretary of State.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

I have no idea of what you speak to.............the issue being discussed is can one be cited for having an unlicensed vehicle of private property.....

And you have ignored all posts demonstrating where you are wrong.

 

[imyoda]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

I just love it when the cowardly fear and hate filled lunatics of this world project their fear all over the place. This piece of hyperbolic crap is no more than one big lie after the other. At no point does this ideological dimwit state why other than to make some idiotic claim the 2A is about tyranny and because he deems it impossible to fight government out dated. The lie of course is that the 2A is not just about tyranny and he knows nothing about urban fighting on home ground or self-defence. What he fails to list in his so-called references is any mention of a single genocide that took place against armed citizens. Ya think that might be significant? I suppose peanut brains cannot figure that one out.

His glaring omission of the independent studies that remain to date unrefuted that gun control has absolutely no success to show in more than 200 years of gun control legislation. Not one law has succeeded in producing the results claimed for it. Now how big a lie is that?

Wait there is more. It is beyond the laws of physics for guns to control humans in any way. Funny how gun control advocates so conveniently forget to address this glaring omission in their dogma and rhetoric as they like good lap dogs spread the propaganda they have sucked up.

Common sense is that only an idiot thinks that disarming the victims of crime will make anyone but criminals safer.

Naturally this cretin as a firearm owner is the product of firearm organisations sitting on their big fat backsides while gun control goes to work. He is the enemy within that will one by one convert all who are willing to listen to the same lies that converted him. Firearm organisations are like the 262 million who have died proving the power of propaganda, believing it is nothing to worry about or there is nothing they can do. The lesson still has not been learnt.

I am sorry this topic is so upsetting fore you..........

However is there any need to be so nasty?

 

[imyoda]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

Your attempt to liken gun ownership to car ownership has been made many times before, and it is just as silly now as ever. The fatal problem for that analogy, which is obvious except to the unthinking or intellectually dishonest, is that the Constitution protects gun ownership but does not protect car ownership. Almost everything on your list would almost certainly be unconstitutional.

I think not........

BTW

IMHO and study of existing law and SCOTUS decisions.........not on the list are unconstitutional and are available for the state to pass laws and legally regulate the use of guns........You may disagree.......But you would be unable to prove otherwise........YUP........all can be done and enforced well within and meeting all the requirements of SCOTUS interpretation of the law

 

[jet57]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

I just love it when the cowardly fear and hate filled lunatics of this world project their fear all over the place. This piece of hyperbolic crap is no more than one big lie after the other. At no point does this ideological dimwit state why other than to make some idiotic claim the 2A is about tyranny and because he deems it impossible to fight government out dated. The lie of course is that the 2A is not just about tyranny and he knows nothing about urban fighting on home ground or self-defence. What he fails to list in his so-called references is any mention of a single genocide that took place against armed citizens. Ya think that might be significant? I suppose peanut brains cannot figure that one out.

His glaring omission of the independent studies that remain to date unrefuted that gun control has absolutely no success to show in more than 200 years of gun control legislation. Not one law has succeeded in producing the results claimed for it. Now how big a lie is that?

Wait there is more. It is beyond the laws of physics for guns to control humans in any way. Funny how gun control advocates so conveniently forget to address this glaring omission in their dogma and rhetoric as they like good lap dogs spread the propaganda they have sucked up.

Common sense is that only an idiot thinks that disarming the victims of crime will make anyone but criminals safer.

Naturally this cretin as a firearm owner is the product of firearm organisations sitting on their big fat backsides while gun control goes to work. He is the enemy within that will one by one convert all who are willing to listen to the same lies that converted him. Firearm organisations are like the 262 million who have died proving the power of propaganda, believing it is nothing to worry about or there is nothing they can do. The lesson still has not been learnt.

You've obviously not read the article. And what independent studies are you suggesting that refute the article?

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

Why Gun Nuts Lie ? I Know From Experience
Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

“………I also understand and appreciate our Constitution. I’m fully aware of the 2nd Amendment, and how its authors wanted to prevent government tyranny. Considering what they had gone through, they had every right to demand such a thing.”


There are lots of reasons why people lie. And without question they lie about guns. But to eliminate the author suggests there is no need to lie if following proposal is implemented which will end all the controversy:



“Treat guns like cars.

Mandatory licenses
License renewals
Mandatory training
Mandatory insurance
Operating laws
Operating age limits
Restrict some models
Require safety inspections
Mandatory registration
Background checks
With this, the manufacturers of guns are never held accountable for the actions of people who abuse their products.

Do we have a deal?

Let’s stop acting like there are only 2 sides of this argument. We’re killing each other. Literally.
Please, for the love of logic, stop using outdated ridiculous concepts of tyranny to defend the dying dinosaur that is our 2nd Amendment.
Like it or not, it needs an update”


I think this is a great idea and will go a long way to end the controversy and eliminate the need to lie

SEE:
Why Gun Nuts Lie ? I Know From Experience

The only problem with that shopping list designed by a gun grabber is that in order to implement those restrictions, the 2nd Amendment would have to be removed from the Constitution. You see, all those things infringe upon the right of a citizen to keep and bear arms.

Now...you can say that the Courts have okayed restrictions, and that would be true...but that doesn't mean the courts were correct in their ruling.

The fact is, if the federal government were to enact a law with all those requirements, the government would be taken to court, an injunction against that law would be enacted and, once the case made it to the Supremes, it would be struck down. If a State enacted a similar law, the outcome could be different, though it's likely their law would be struck down as well.

 

[imyoda]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

Gun control is incremental, if the SCOTUS can "interpret" fully automatic arms to be exempt from "the right to keep and bare arms" which makes nor implies such distinctions and gun regulation is NOT a power even enumerated to the Fed then the next thing is 30 round magazines then when criminals still don't follow the law it will be 10 round magazines and more and more and more, at what point would you cease being a as strong believer in he second amendment and the SCOTUS interpretation of it..........

A state can pass laws which regulate/ban the use of weapons and even ban some folks from even having a right to own a gun for a stated reason listed in the states law........

I have a strong believe in the right to bear arms an would never believe otherwise...........Because I believe in the Constitution the rule of law and primacy of SCOTUS to interpret the law......... if a SCOTUS decision ruled otherwise.....as a supporter of the rule of law I would be required to change my belief in what was to what is.......

 

[imyoda]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

I thought your position has already been debunked.

There is no statue where you are required to license and register a vehicle that does not use public roads, one that's restricted to private property.

Sorry you are mistaken

 

[blaxshep]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

A state can pass laws which regulate/ban the use of weapons and even ban some folks from even having a right to own a gun for a stated reason listed in the states law........

I have a strong believe in the right to bear arms an would never believe otherwise...........Because I believe in the Constitution the rule of law and primacy of SCOTUS to interpret the law......... if a SCOTUS decision ruled otherwise.....as a supporter of the rule of law I would be required to change my belief in what was to what is.......

Then you are part of the problem.

 

[imyoda]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

Looks like you insisting registration laws apply to private property.

No not me..........but state law

 

[imyoda]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

Wrong again.....

Uber wrong at this point.

Neither state wide nor is the citation for NOT BEING REGISTERED.

(65 ILCS 5/11-40-3) (from Ch. 24, par. 11-40-3)
Sec. 11-40-3. Subject to the provisions of Section 11-40-3.1 of this Code, the corporate authorities of each municipality may by ordinance declare all inoperable motor vehicles, whether on public or private property and in view of the general public, to be a nuisance and authorize fines to be levied for the failure of any person to obey a notice received from the municipality which states that such person is to dispose of any inoperable motor vehicles under his control, and may authorize a law enforcement agency, with applicable jurisdiction, to remove, after 7 days from the issuance of the municipal notice, any inoperable motor vehicle or parts thereof. However, nothing in this Section shall apply to any motor vehicle that is kept within a building when not in use, to operable historic vehicles over 25 years of age, or to a motor vehicle on the premises of a place of business engaged in the wrecking or junking of motor vehicles.

As used in this Section, "inoperable motor vehicle" means any motor vehicle from which, for a period of at least 7 days or any greater period fixed by ordinance, the engine, wheels or other parts have been removed, or on which the engine, wheels or other parts have been altered, damaged or otherwise so treated that the vehicle is incapable of being driven under its own motor power. "Inoperable motor vehicle" shall not include a motor vehicle which has been rendered temporarily incapable of being driven under its own motor power in order to perform ordinary service or repair operations.
(Source: P.A. 86-460.)


Now for the STATE law:

(625 ILCS 5/3-401) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 3-401)
Sec. 3-401. Effect of provisions.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to violate any provision of this Chapter or to drive or move or for an owner knowingly to permit to be driven or moved upon any highway any vehicle of a type required to be registered hereunder which is not registered or for which the appropriate fee has not been paid when and as required hereunder, except that when application accompanied by proper fee has been made for registration of a vehicle it may be operated temporarily pending complete registration upon displaying a duplicate application duly verified or other evidence of such application or otherwise under rules and regulations promulgated by the Secretary of State.

??????

 

[imyoda]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

And you have ignored all posts demonstrating where you are wrong.

No one to my knowledge can prove me wrong..........What is.....is