Why Does The U.S. Have More School Shootings Than Everywhere Else?

[RDS]

Good topic for discussion.

One possibility is that we have higher rates of mental illness than other countries. Or (more likely) that we do a worse job of identifying people who are mentally ill and keeping them from committing acts of violence. After all, many of the mass shootings in the U.S., school and otherwise, have been committed by the mentally ill.

Why Does The U.S. Have More School Shootings Than Everywhere Else?

 

[ecofarm]

Your blogger at politix.bs is ripping off a Feb. 2012 blog at CNN. Of course, he adds his own bit of America hate to the mix:

All I can say is that there's some destructive mixture of factors at work in the U.S. that doesn't appear in any other country.

It must be that dirty American blood!



Why does America lead the world in school shootings? – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs

 

[Helix]

Why Does The U.S. Have More School Shootings Than Everywhere Else?

well, it costs a ****load of money to get looked at if you're crazy. hundreds a session. i know because.... uh, well, this friend of mine.

also, our culture likes guns a lot more than most, and they're easy to get. before you start flaming me over acknowledging this fact, i grew up with them, i'm a great shot, and i give zero ****s about taking yours away. however, i'm also not religious about them, and i have no desire to argue about them online. i'm just pointing out that they're available.

number three : the media covers this stuff like crazy. which gives crazy people fuel to do more crazy. many of these idiots look at the other assholes and say "i'm going to outdo this asshole." then the media covers it, and helps to motivate another asshole.

what's the solution? i'd say the best solution is for us to modify our culture a bit. the media needs to stop glorifying these assholes. also, the health care industry needs to start identifying and getting these assholes into treatment a lot earlier. that means that you don't get your guns taken from you, but you lose on this mostly private, for profit health care / mental health care system nonsense, because it is an absolute and utter failure. deal with it.

 

[Arbo]

Because of the dismantling of our mental health system, along with the whole PC movement where it's horrible to point out that someone is nuts and needs help, along with the continued stigma of mental health issues… all go together to ensure those that should be in treatment, being watched, are not, and are roaming free. Add to that the whole 'gun free zone' thing which allows an easy target of bodies, as let's face it every time one of these psycho's knows they are closing in on them, they quit killing others and kill themselves.

A lot of our nation has some really messed up ideas in terms of what they are entitled to as well, I have a brother in law that teaches high school science, I have heard loads of stories about kids walking out of the class having done poorly on a test, calling home to complain, then within minutes his phone is being called by parents raising hell about 'giving' their kid bad grades, no way 'their kid' deserves that, and on and on… it all adds up to parents in denial that their kids are anything but perfect, could do anything wrong, a strange fantasy that passes down to the kids, and of course ignores any signs of mental health issues.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Totally unenforced "gun free" zones is my best guess.

 

[haymarket]

Good topic for discussion.



Why Does The U.S. Have More School Shootings Than Everywhere Else?

If we live on an island that is four miles on each side and there is one automobile on that island, are the odds of it getting into an accident greater or lesser compared to an island the same size but with 500 cars upon it?

Now apply that same common sense probability to a society which has more guns than adults and ask yourself what the consequences of all those weapons are going to be given the various pressures in our culture.

 

[MaggieD]

Good topic for discussion.

Why Does The U.S. Have More School Shootings Than Everywhere Else?

The United States spends prescribes more anti-psychotic drugs than any other class. Within the Medicaid system, the number of children prescribed these drugs tripled from 1999 to 2008. Getting children labeled as bipolar, ADHD, autistic, etc., is a way to get extra $$ for kids. Thus, for many parents, that is an incentive to have them diagnosed with these problems. Child have a behavioral problem? Too hard to manage? Dope 'em up. Think your child is depressed? Dope 'em up.

A recent study showed that 4% of children receiving anti-depressants tried committing suicide compared to 2% being given placebos in the test.

One in 1,000 taking medication for ADHD will experience the following side effects:

• Acting more subdued or withdrawn than usual
• Feeling helpless, hopeless, or worthless
• New or worsening depression
• Thinking or talking about hurting himself or herself
• Extreme worry
• Agitation
• Panic attacks
• Trouble sleeping
• Irritability
• Aggressive or violent behavior
• Acting without thinking
• Extreme increase in activity or talking
• Frenzied, abnormal excitement

NIMH · Mental Health Medications

One in every ten Americans is taking anti-depressants. Astounding increase in antidepressant use by Americans - Harvard Health Publications

We are messing mightily with uncooked brains (young children). IMO, one has to look no further than that.

 

[Phil_Osophy]

Totally unenforced "gun free" zones is my best guess.

Wonder why theres never been a mass shooting at a gun show.........

 

[AliHajiSheik]

If we live on an island that is four miles on each side and there is one automobile on that island, are the odds of it getting into an accident greater or lesser compared to an island the same size but with 500 cars upon it?

Now apply that same common sense probability to a society which has more guns than adults and ask yourself what the consequences of all those weapons are going to be given the various pressures in our culture.

We don't live on an island. Can we have another analogy?

 

[haymarket]

We don't live on an island. Can we have another analogy?

It fits just the same as we all live on an island one way or the other.

But just for you since it is Christmas and everybody deserves a gift ----- If we live in a nation of the size of the USA that has but one automobile in it, are the odds of it getting into an accident greater or lesser compared to an nation the same size but with 60 million cars upon it?

 

[TNAR]

Attempting to place blame for separate events on a single common denominator is not only impossible, but dishonest. The fact that weapons are more easily obtained in the U.S. than many other nations certainly plays a role, but in no way is the causal factor. As pointed out many times over, if the simple presence of guns was the causal factor in shootings then these would be commonplace at hunting stores, gun shows, firing ranges, and other such locations. Attempting to reduce complex events into the realm of a single inanimate object is the quest of a simpleton or someone with an ulterior motive.

 

[Carjosse]

If we live on an island that is four miles on each side and there is one automobile on that island, are the odds of it getting into an accident greater or lesser compared to an island the same size but with 500 cars upon it?

Now apply that same common sense probability to a society which has more guns than adults and ask yourself what the consequences of all those weapons are going to be given the various pressures in our culture.

Actually on Prince Edward Island our smallest province had the first car in Canada and a priest owned the only one on the island and it crashed.

 

[StillBallin75]

Good topic for discussion.



Why Does The U.S. Have More School Shootings Than Everywhere Else?

I think to conclude that "mental illness" is at the heart of the problem is deviating from the real discussion. When you ask "why did this individual do this" the obvious answer is "well that mother****er was crazy." Which seems to me to be somewhat of a cop-out and not much of a real explanation. There are plenty of quote-unquote "mentally ill folks" adolescents who don't end up shooting people - in fact the vast majority are non-violent. There are also plenty of people who aren't mentally ill who commit gun violence quite frequently. I mean is there even any statistical evidence to suggest that mentally ill people are more prone to commit gun violence than the general population?

I do think that as a society we need to devote more awareness to mental illness but it doesn't necessarily explain why school shootings happen.

 

[Goshin]

We largely dismantled our mental health system, particularly as regards keeping dangerously ill people institutionalized, in the 1980s, and it has come back to bite us.

Add in what Maggie posted about the side effects of commonly prescribed psychotropic meds, and you have the major causes.


Also, it is worth noting that despite being hyped by the media, these incidents are relatively uncommon in comparison to the 315 million-plus population.

 

[Goshin]

I think to conclude that "mental illness" is at the heart of the problem is deviating from the real discussion. When you ask "why did this individual do this" the obvious answer is "well that mother****er was crazy." Which seems to me to be somewhat of a cop-out and not much of a real explanation. There are plenty of quote-unquote "mentally ill folks" adolescents who don't end up shooting people - in fact the vast majority are non-violent. There are also plenty of people who aren't mentally ill who commit gun violence quite frequently. I do think that as a society we need to devote more awareness to mental illness but it doesn't necessarily explain why school shootings happen.

As I said above, mental illness and a lack of structure to address it, along with side effects of common meds like Ritalin, address a lot of the problem.

Drugs and gangs are another big chunk.


The final piece of the puzzle.... well, many won't like my answer, but it is the truth: we don't teach moral absolutes to our children as a society anymore, and we're reaping what we've sown.



When I was a teenager, there were people I went to school with who drove me half out of my mind, to the point I fantasized about killing them. Know what mainly kept me from trying to do it in real life? Knowing I'd have to answer to God for "thou shalt not kill".

 

[Kobie]

well, it costs a ****load of money to get looked at if you're crazy. hundreds a session. i know because.... uh, well, this friend of mine.

also, our culture likes guns a lot more than most, and they're easy to get. before you start flaming me over acknowledging this fact, i grew up with them, i'm a great shot, and i give zero ****s about taking yours away. however, i'm also not religious about them, and i have no desire to argue about them online. i'm just pointing out that they're available.

number three : the media covers this stuff like crazy. which gives crazy people fuel to do more crazy. many of these idiots look at the other assholes and say "i'm going to outdo this asshole." then the media covers it, and helps to motivate another asshole.

what's the solution? i'd say the best solution is for us to modify our culture a bit. the media needs to stop glorifying these assholes. also, the health care industry needs to start identifying and getting these assholes into treatment a lot earlier. that means that you don't get your guns taken from you, but you lose on this mostly private, for profit health care / mental health care system nonsense, because it is an absolute and utter failure. deal with it.

I'm loathe to "blame the media" every time something happens we don't like. What, exactly, is "the media" supposed to do? How does "the media" (as broad a term as there is) "glorify" these guys? The media has a responsibility to report what happened.

 

[Gardener]

We largely dismantled our mental health system, particularly as regards keeping dangerously ill people institutionalized, in the 1980s, and it has come back to bite us.

.

I have some recent, and very unpleasant experience with the system that absolutely refuses to deal with severe mental illness. It is just a revolving door where even violent people are released due to lack of facilities, lack of people, and most of all, lack of the willingness.

 

[Kobie]

As I said above, mental illness and a lack of structure to address it, along with side effects of common meds like Ritalin, address a lot of the problem.

Agreed.

Drugs and gangs are another big chunk.

In the case of school shootings? I doubt it. Some "school shootings" are gang violence that happens to reach school, but the vast majority of school shooting incidents are anything but gang related. I think in the context of this thread, we're talking about things like Columbine, or Newtown, or Arapahoe, and gangs had absolutely nothing to do with those.

The final piece of the puzzle.... well, many won't like my answer, but it is the truth: we don't teach moral absolutes to our children as a society anymore, and we're reaping what we've sown.

When I was a teenager, there were people I went to school with who drove me half out of my mind, to the point I fantasized about killing them. Know what mainly kept me from trying to do it in real life? Knowing I'd have to answer to God for "thou shalt not kill".

Bull. Morality is not dependent on religion.

 

[Gardener]

I'm loathe to "blame the media" every time something happens we don't like. What, exactly, is "the media" supposed to do? How does "the media" (as broad a term as there is) "glorify" these guys? The media has a responsibility to report what happened.

Were the media to fail to report on these incidents that fall within the realm of public safety, I can only imagine the hue and cry from those who would cry that the media is keeping us uninformed. My gut tells me that many are the same people that complain the media is partly responsible.

 

[Helix]

I'm loathe to "blame the media" every time something happens we don't like. What, exactly, is "the media" supposed to do? How does "the media" (as broad a term as there is) "glorify" these guys? The media has a responsibility to report what happened.

don't put up their names or pictures, and don't spend fifteen news cycles rubbernecking over it.

however, this is secondary in importance. far, far more important is replacing the stupid and expensive health care system that places a financial barrier between the mentally ill patient and treatment. most of these schizophrenics needed to be medicated and at least in weekly outpatient therapy. this should be covered under national health care.

 

[Kobie]

don't put up their names or pictures, and don't spend fifteen news cycles rubbernecking over it.

however, this is secondary in importance. far, far more important is replacing the stupid and expensive health care system that places a financial barrier between the mentally ill patient and treatment. most of these schizophrenics needed to be medicated and at least in weekly outpatient therapy. this should be covered under national health care.

Not naming the perpetrators would be an abdication of the media's responsibility. It is the media's job to inform.

 

[haymarket]

Actually on Prince Edward Island our smallest province had the first car in Canada and a priest owned the only one on the island and it crashed.

You seem to have pissed the point.

 

[Helix]

Not naming the perpetrators would be an abdication of the media's responsibility. It is the media's job to inform.

Then cover it and move on.

Let's be real here. You can see the excitement in their eyes when they are covering something really bad. Yeah, they do the somber act, but we're genetically programmed to rubberneck. It's innate.


Anyway, this part is much less relevant than the other. The current health care model has to go. We can't have a paywall between the mentally ill and treatment. We don't have to go door to door confiscating semi automatic weapons, but the right is going to have to give more ground on health care. This is a symptom of a systematic failure.

 

[Kobie]

Then cover it and move on.

Let's be real here. You can see the excitement in their eyes when they are covering something really bad. Yeah, they do the somber act, but we're genetically programmed to rubberneck. It's innate.

Trust me, "the media" is not rooting for these kinds of things to happen.

I live near the area where the four firefighters were shot on Christmas eve last year, and I work in "the media." We covered the hell out of that anniversary ... should we not have? (Admittedly not a school shooting, but definitely an incident of "crazy person with a gun doing something bad" and actually one that did have something to do with certain holes in gun legislation, namely the weakness in penalties for straw purchases)

Anyway, this part is much less relevant than the other. The current health care model has to go. We can't have a paywall between the mentally ill and treatment. We don't have to go door to door confiscating semi automatic weapons, but the right is going to have to give more ground on health care. This is a symptom of a systematic failure.

Wholeheartedly agree.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

It fits just the same as we all live on an island one way or the other.

But just for you since it is Christmas and everybody deserves a gift ----- If we live in a nation of the size of the USA that has but one automobile in it, are the odds of it getting into an accident greater or lesser compared to an nation the same size but with 60 million cars upon it?

Yes, it is Christmas, so have a merry one. For a gift, I give you the power to implement any solution. What is your solution?