Who was Rachel Corrie?

[mpg]

What? You never heard of the WSWS? Its a well known information and news outlet. Can you debunk the points and facts raised in the article if its not true? Your source?

I'm not saying that it's wrong, but i don't necessarily believe a website that I never heard of, and I've heard of a lot of websites.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

I'm not saying that it's wrong, but i don't necessarily believe a website that I never heard of, and I've heard of a lot of websites.

Well so if its not the "mainstream" its just not true?
Instead of pointing out that its not the mainstream why dont you dig into the article?

 

[makkam]

Why didn't the driver of the bulldozer...stop?

 

[ido_]

Why didn't the driver of the bulldozer...stop?

This thread is trying to picture it like Corrie just stood there bravely while the D9 ran over her, in fact, she tried to climb the rubble the D9 pushed, tripped, fell and crushed under the rubble and the dozer blade. The driver didn't stop because he didn't notice her, and not only the driver the D9 has a crew of 2.
Following this incident the IDF changed safty protocols and obligated a spotter on the ground with direct contact to the operator in activities such as this one.

 

[makkam]

This thread is trying to picture it like Corrie just stood there bravely while the D9 ran over her, in fact, she tried to climb the rubble the D9 pushed, tripped, fell and crushed under the rubble and the dozer blade. The driver didn't stop because he didn't notice her, and not only the driver the D9 has a crew of 2.
Following this incident the IDF changed safty protocols and obligated a spotter on the ground with direct contact to the operator in activities such as this one.

That doesn't make sense. Maybe she did "deserve to die" I guess is what you're trying to say, but how could the drivers not be looking at whatever they were doing and notice a human climbing on top of the rubble they were pushing?

 

[StillBallin75]

Forgive me for asking...but isn't kinda dumb to have slat armor (cage) that obscures your vision and significantly reduces your situational awareness?

 

[GI Joe]

Well that was the bulldozer she was ran over by...
The picture was taken moments before she was hit.

It was not taken moments before. It was a pic taken earlier in the day of a different bulldozer and false perspective that was part of a hoax by the ISM. I will post a slew of info on this later

 

[TheDemSocialist]

It was not taken moments before. It was a pic taken earlier in the day of a different bulldozer and false perspective that was part of a hoax by the ISM. I will post a slew of info on this later

Im interested.
Ill be waiting on the source and the info

 

[Shayah]

This is the D9, the US military bulldozer used extensively in the Gulf War (trench warfare) and Fallujah (urban warfare). This pic provides a sense of man/machine proportion.

Below is a pic of the IDF D9. Proportion is also apparent here. The cab is completely surrounded by metal slat array's which protect the operator from RPGs and anti-tank weapons. The cab windows are extremely thick and shatter-proof. The under-belly is also reinforced with thick armor plating to prevent damage from any IEDs or explosive-cache materials the D9 is destroying.

Due to the size of the D9 and limited operator visibility, it is certainly plausible that the operator did not see that Rachel Corrie had positioned herself in front of the machine. I understand her intent (protest), but I have seen these machines firsthand and know that it is extremely dangerous to enter into their area of operations. As idu_ has stated, this incident/accident was reviewed by the IDF and D9 area of operation spotters were subsequently mandated.

 

[What if...?]

This thread is trying to picture it like Corrie just stood there bravely while the D9 ran over her, in fact, she tried to climb the rubble the D9 pushed, tripped, fell and crushed under the rubble and the dozer blade. The driver didn't stop because he didn't notice her, and not only the driver the D9 has a crew of 2.
Following this incident the IDF changed safty protocols and obligated a spotter on the ground with direct contact to the operator in activities such as this one.

I read around on the whole thing again and it looks like it was an accident.

I've operated equipment, and visibility is limited, its dusty, noisy. Equipment has the right of way, because they cant see you.

From the statements from her companions that day, it sounds like they had been playing the same game for days. Everybody got a little comfortable dancing with the bulldozers/protesters and it went bad wrong, I don't think anybody looked anybody in the eye and crushed a kid.

 

[GI Joe]

Im interested.
Ill be waiting on the source and the info

Yeah, I am a little buzzed right now so I dont feel like trying to put it together this second if you know what I mean. I thank you for your patience

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Yeah, I am a little buzzed right now so I dont feel like trying to put it together this second if you know what I mean. I thank you for your patience

Haha i know exactly how you feel man..
Keep some sleep and come back with a clear and conscious mind.

 

[ido_]

That doesn't make sense. Maybe she did "deserve to die" I guess is what you're trying to say, but how could the drivers not be looking at whatever they were doing and notice a human climbing on top of the rubble they were pushing?

I have no idea how you got the idea i think she deserve to die, mybe because I'm an Israeli and we are all blood sucking demons who treat palestinians as sub humans as Serenity suggested???
A driver in a D9 hardly sees anything and she didn't reach the top of the rubble, she tripped while climbing it and the driver didn't notice her

 

[ido_]

Forgive me for asking...but isn't kinda dumb to have slat armor (cage) that obscures your vision and significantly reduces your situational awareness?

Not when RPGs are being fired at you, a D9 is an engineering tool, the troops inside doesn't have any way to shoot back unless they disembark, the forces escorting the D9 should have the situational awareness.

 

[GI Joe]

Forgive me for asking...but isn't kinda dumb to have slat armor (cage) that obscures your vision and significantly reduces your situational awareness?

The Israeli Armored D9 — nicknamed Doobi (Hebrew: דובי‎; lit. teddy bear) — is a Caterpillar D9 bulldozer that was modified by the Israel Defence Forces, Israeli Military Industries and Israel Aerospace Industries to increase the survivability of the dozer in hostile environments and enable it to withstand heavy attacks.

snip
The main IDF modification is the installation of an Israeli-made armor kit which provides armor protection to the mechanical systems and to the operator cabin. The operator and commander are protected inside an armored cabin ("the cockpit"), with bulletproof windows to protect against bombs, machinegun, and sniper fire. The IDF also developed a slat armor add-on to deflect RPG rounds.


snip
The IDF uses the D9 for a wide variety of engineering tasks, such as earthworks, digging moats, mounting sand barriers, building fortifications, rescuing stuck, overturned or damaged armored fighting vehicles (along with M88 Recovery Vehicle), clearing landmines, detonating IEDs and explosives, clearing terrain obstacles and opening routes to armored fighting vehicles and infantry, as well as structures demolition, including under fire.

Armored bulldozer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[GI Joe]

Haha i know exactly how you feel man..
Keep some sleep and come back with a clear and conscious mind.

When u PWI its better to stick to quick easy posts. Even so you may embarrass yourself anyway.:mrgreen:

 

[Serenity]

I have no idea how you got the idea i think she deserve to die, mybe because I'm an Israeli and we are all blood sucking demons who treat palestinians as sub humans as Serenity suggested???
A driver in a D9 hardly sees anything and she didn't reach the top of the rubble, she tripped while climbing it and the driver didn't notice her

exaggerate much? i never said that and i didn't single out Israelis but nice try _Ido. its a general perception that a lot of people have from ALL over the world. a Palestinian life is not considered equal to anyone else. you know it and i know it.

 

[ido_]

exaggerate much? i never said that and i didn't single out Israelis but nice try _Ido. its a general perception that a lot of people have from ALL over the world. a Palestinian life is not considered equal to anyone else. you know it and i know it.

No I don't know it, maybe its the general perception in your surroundings, not in mine.

 

[mpg]

Well so if its not the "mainstream" its just not true?
Instead of pointing out that its not the mainstream why dont you dig into the article?

I never said that it was untrue, and I already pointed that out to you. Why are you forcing me to repeat myself? There certainly wasn't a lack of clarity.

 

[makkam]

The Israeli Armored D9 — nicknamed Doobi (Hebrew: דובי‎; lit. teddy bear) — is a Caterpillar D9 bulldozer that was modified by the Israel Defence Forces, Israeli Military Industries and Israel Aerospace Industries to increase the survivability of the dozer in hostile environments and enable it to withstand heavy attacks.

snip
The main IDF modification is the installation of an Israeli-made armor kit which provides armor protection to the mechanical systems and to the operator cabin. The operator and commander are protected inside an armored cabin ("the cockpit"), with bulletproof windows to protect against bombs, machinegun, and sniper fire. The IDF also developed a slat armor add-on to deflect RPG rounds.


snip
The IDF uses the D9 for a wide variety of engineering tasks, such as earthworks, digging moats, mounting sand barriers, building fortifications, rescuing stuck, overturned or damaged armored fighting vehicles (along with M88 Recovery Vehicle), clearing landmines, detonating IEDs and explosives, clearing terrain obstacles and opening routes to armored fighting vehicles and infantry, as well as structures demolition, including under fire.

Armored bulldozer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The picture explains why they couldn't see clearly. I want to retort with a comment about how stupid it is to work half-blind doing anything, but since I don't live in a war zone where I'm likely to be bombed for my help, I'll resist. If help it really was...Plausible excuses come as easy as breath.

 

[StillBallin75]

Not when RPGs are being fired at you, a D9 is an engineering tool, the troops inside doesn't have any way to shoot back unless they disembark, the forces escorting the D9 should have the situational awareness.

Then that makes me wonder why there wasn't a spotter on the ground. Considering the fact that they were going after smuggled arms and all?

 

[Gardener]

The picture explains why they couldn't see clearly. I want to retort with a comment about how stupid it is to work half-blind doing anything, but since I don't live in a war zone where I'm likely to be bombed for my help, I'll resist. If help it really was...Plausible excuses come as easy as breath.

How odd that you would consider attempts to combat terrorism as "stupid" beause of the limitations of a piece of equipment that was not designed with the idea that idiots would be positioning themselves in front of it, while giving a free pass to those same idiots who collaborate with terrorist organizations to impede the implementation of the anti-terrorist measures.

 

[Shayah]

Then that makes me wonder why there wasn't a spotter on the ground. Considering the fact that they were going after smuggled arms and all?

The British never used spotters during the Mandate period when they used bulldozers to destroy both Jewish and Arab homes. It is assumed that the potential danger of playing chicken with such a machine is obvious. The IDF mandated spotters after the Corrie incident. IIRC, the D9 here was leveling a house that served as an access point to an underground tunnel used for the movement of weapons and militia.

In Fallujah each Marine RCT had a contingent of D9s. They were used to breach berms, remove street/vehicle barricades, punch access holes in concrete highway dividers, punch holes in walls surrounding residential/mosque courtyards, create ad-hoc structure entrances, flatten insurgent ambush points, and use the armored blade to approach/kill snipers.

 

[ido_]

Then that makes me wonder why there wasn't a spotter on the ground. Considering the fact that they were going after smuggled arms and all?

There was a spotter on the ground inside an armored personal carrier who secured the D9 at its work, I remember reading in the debrif of the incident that the spotter didn't pay attention to the demonstrators but observed the windows and roofs in the surrounding area, this is why one of the conclusions of the investigation obligated a spotter that will look at the D9 itself and have a clear sight to its blade.

 

[ManofthPeephole]

seems like a sad death that people on both sides like to use as cannon fodder. And while I don't necessarily agree with her actions, the accusations of suicide strike me as needlessly callous.

Though considering the larger debate it occurs within, such is unsurprising