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Who made you?

Good4Nothin said:
Every human society had gods. There is nothing unique about Christianity. It became extremely popular because a Roman emperor decided Christ would help him win wars, and then Rome forced Christianity on Europe, and then Europe became powerful. And here we are.

It's so easy for atheists to argue against dogmatic versions of Christianity. I almost never see them argue against more reasonable religious beliefs.
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That's principally because the underlying basis for those reasonable beliefs is rooted in common morality. I'd wager you're not exactly talking about the eucharist here, are you?

Yes, every society has gods. That generally means the notion of "god" is simply an object of our inherent vanity, and not at all "mysterious" or "unique" and certainly not "final" like Islam claims itself to be.

Personally, I am an avowed anti-theist when it comes to the Abrahamic religions. I tend to look more kindly upon introspective religions like Buddhism. Personally, I identify as an antiabrahamic humanist that tends toward Buddhism and appreciates paganism.
 
Good4Nothin said:
For a pantheist like me, the answer is the infinitely intelligent and creative Universe. I just call it God.

I naturally assume that whoever made me is a whole lot smarter than I am. Therefore I do not worship my own intelligence and ego. I know they are limited and very likely to be wrong most of the time.

Atheists, however, do not believe that we were made. Instead, they think that atoms and molecules banged into each other randomly and by accident somehow created life. They have no explanations for how this could have happened, but they feel very certain that it did.

Therefore, atheists have no reason to doubt human intelligence. They do not suspect that their reasoning process could be wrong.

So I see this as one big difference between believers and atheists. BUT -- fundamentalist Christians have something in common with atheists.

Fundamentalist Christians don't have faith in their own intelligence and reasoning powers, but they DO have faith in the intelligence of the people who wrote their bible.

Atheists and fundamentalist Christians are the outspoken extremes in the US. But most Americans are probably pantheists like me, even if they don't know the word and never thought much about it.

We were created by something infinitely smarter than ourselves. We are all connected in ways we can't understand. Life is meaningful in ways we can't imagine.

This kind of faith is inclusive, not divisive. It makes sense scientifically. No, it can't be proven. But we can each experience its miracles in our personal lives.
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Good values, thanks for sharing.

However, values are groundless and should not be promoted as reality unless there is actual empirical evidence.

Also, some statements made here hint quantum processes, which are not mysterious and math equations are available to assert such realities instead of mere values.
 
Logicman said:
In your dreams. Atheists will be cast into the Lake of Fire when they expire (Rev. 21:8). Best they be thinking about an afterlife, fire-retardant suit.
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Allah loves you. Don't be an infidel.
 
Good4Nothin said:
For a pantheist like me, the answer is the infinitely intelligent and creative Universe. I just call it God.

I naturally assume that whoever made me is a whole lot smarter than I am. Therefore I do not worship my own intelligence and ego. I know they are limited and very likely to be wrong most of the time.

Atheists, however, do not believe that we were made. Instead, they think that atoms and molecules banged into each other randomly and by accident somehow created life. They have no explanations for how this could have happened, but they feel very certain that it did.

Therefore, atheists have no reason to doubt human intelligence. They do not suspect that their reasoning process could be wrong.

So I see this as one big difference between believers and atheists. BUT -- fundamentalist Christians have something in common with atheists.

Fundamentalist Christians don't have faith in their own intelligence and reasoning powers, but they DO have faith in the intelligence of the people who wrote their bible.

Atheists and fundamentalist Christians are the outspoken extremes in the US. But most Americans are probably pantheists like me, even if they don't know the word and never thought much about it.

We were created by something infinitely smarter than ourselves. We are all connected in ways we can't understand. Life is meaningful in ways we can't imagine.

This kind of faith is inclusive, not divisive. It makes sense scientifically. No, it can't be proven. But we can each experience its miracles in our personal lives.
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Amen. I could not have said it better myself.
 
"We were created by something infinitely smarter than ourselves."

I'd like to see proof of that please.
 
I love the God of the gaps. A few centuries ago you would've began with "we don't understand how the world was made" but now that we do you've decided God was only involved in abiogenesis.
 
zyzygy said:
"We were created by something infinitely smarter than ourselves."

I'd like to see proof of that please.
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To some of us it's just obvious. Like water is wet. How can I prove that to you?

But there are plenty of logical reasons to not buy materialism.
 
spud_meister said:
I love the God of the gaps. A few centuries ago you would've began with "we don't understand how the world was made" but now that we do you've decided God was only involved in abiogenesis.
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I haven't decided anything like that. I don't know who you are talking about.
 
Good4Nothin said:
I haven't decided anything like that. I don't know who you are talking about.
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Of course you have. You believe some version of god was involved in the origin of life because you don't understand how life began. It's no different to claiming there's a god inside every leaf because you don't know how photosynthesis works.
 
Logicman said:
In your dreams. Atheists will be cast into the Lake of Fire when they expire (Rev. 21:8). Best they be thinking about an afterlife, fire-retardant suit.
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That's where all the Christians will go, perhaps. Me, I'm going to wake up in a whore house, with a big mountain of cocaine by my side, like that Kardashian that used to play basketball.
 
Good4Nothin said:
To some of us it's just obvious. Like water is wet. How can I prove that to you?

But there are plenty of logical reasons to not buy materialism.
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You don't need to prove that water is wet. Comparing water with imaginary beings is not a good analogy. You have faith, that is obvious. I see no logical reasons for believing in the existence of a god.
 
Good4Nothin said:
Atheists, however, do not believe that we were made. Instead, they think that atoms and molecules banged into each other randomly and by accident somehow created life.
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Atheists do not believe in a supernatural being known as God, but that's all there is to it.
Beyond that, you would have to ask each individual atheist what they believe or acknowledge, because there is no "atheist" religion. They are "a-theist" meaning they don't believe in religions.

That doesn't mean that they don't subscribe to anything, just nothing "theist".
So, to say that "atheists think that atoms and molecules banged into each other" is absurd.
For one thing, molecules are atoms, so you're saying "atoms and more atoms".
And "banged into each other" doesn't describe anything.

And the term "accident" is suspicious as well.
 
spud_meister said:
Of course you have. You believe some version of god was involved in the origin of life because you don't understand how life began. It's no different to claiming there's a god inside every leaf because you don't know how photosynthesis works.
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A magic god starting life is far more logical that a chemical process. Not.
 
Obscurity said:
The bible is a book. Written by a collection of men.

And, it is not "evidence" of anything beyond our carnal desire and selfish want to live longer than we should, thus the history of humankind being replete with beliefs and traditions that exculpate our moral responsibility to recognize the impermanence of our lives.

The bible is a book, sir. It is not a genealogical record. It is not an archeological dig site. It is a book that does not predate a PLETHORA of other religious belief systems, which, if taken by your unscrupulous standard of "evidence" means it has even less standing than things like Buddhism, or the articles of Confucius.
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Go tell that to a novice. I know better.
 
calamity said:
That's where all the Christians will go, perhaps. Me, I'm going to wake up in a whore house, with a big mountain of cocaine by my side, like that Kardashian that used to play basketball.
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Lamar Odom. :lol:
 
Dragonfly said:
**** the gospels and the New Testament.

Those things mean nothing.

The odds of the Bible being complete nonsense are pretty much about on the same level as the odds of Lord Of The Rings being historically accurate truth.
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Like I said, you haven't done your homework. No serious studied on the historicity of Jesus, the Gospels, and the New Testament. And I think you know it.
 
Omega Man said:
Interesting that you would cite renowned Christian apologists as somehow offering "proof" of your assertions. Confirmation bias is not your friend.


OM
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What - I'm supposed to cite the antichrist, or those who have done their due-diligence, including a former skeptic?
 
Logicman is headed straight for Naraka, the Hindu hell.
 
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