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Who made you?

Good4Nothin

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For a pantheist like me, the answer is the infinitely intelligent and creative Universe. I just call it God.

I naturally assume that whoever made me is a whole lot smarter than I am. Therefore I do not worship my own intelligence and ego. I know they are limited and very likely to be wrong most of the time.

Atheists, however, do not believe that we were made. Instead, they think that atoms and molecules banged into each other randomly and by accident somehow created life. They have no explanations for how this could have happened, but they feel very certain that it did.

Therefore, atheists have no reason to doubt human intelligence. They do not suspect that their reasoning process could be wrong.

So I see this as one big difference between believers and atheists. BUT -- fundamentalist Christians have something in common with atheists.

Fundamentalist Christians don't have faith in their own intelligence and reasoning powers, but they DO have faith in the intelligence of the people who wrote their bible.

Atheists and fundamentalist Christians are the outspoken extremes in the US. But most Americans are probably pantheists like me, even if they don't know the word and never thought much about it.

We were created by something infinitely smarter than ourselves. We are all connected in ways we can't understand. Life is meaningful in ways we can't imagine.

This kind of faith is inclusive, not divisive. It makes sense scientifically. No, it can't be proven. But we can each experience its miracles in our personal lives.
 

zyzygy

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For a pantheist like me, the answer is the infinitely intelligent and creative Universe. I just call it God.

I naturally assume that whoever made me is a whole lot smarter than I am. Therefore I do not worship my own intelligence and ego. I know they are limited and very likely to be wrong most of the time.

Atheists, however, do not believe that we were made. Instead, they think that atoms and molecules banged into each other randomly and by accident somehow created life. They have no explanations for how this could have happened, but they feel very certain that it did.

Therefore, atheists have no reason to doubt human intelligence. They do not suspect that their reasoning process could be wrong.

So I see this as one big difference between believers and atheists. BUT -- fundamentalist Christians have something in common with atheists.

Fundamentalist Christians don't have faith in their own intelligence and reasoning powers, but they DO have faith in the intelligence of the people who wrote their bible.

Atheists and fundamentalist Christians are the outspoken extremes in the US. But most Americans are probably pantheists like me, even if they don't know the word and never thought much about it.

We were created by something infinitely smarter than ourselves. We are all connected in ways we can't understand. Life is meaningful in ways we can't imagine.

This kind of faith is inclusive, not divisive. It makes sense scientifically. No, it can't be proven. But we can each experience its miracles in our personal lives.

What kind of miracles?
 

<alt>doxygen

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Interesting/intriguing perspective.

I consider myself agnostic.

I consider myself a product of my parents and their desire for children coupled with the environments I've lived through. There may indeed be things outside of the realms we interact with via our normal senses involved, but I'm not sure enough of any of that to really inject it into the equation. JMHO.
 

Angel

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Who made you?
God made me.


That was the first question and answer -- verbatim -- in the Roman Catholic catechism I studied as a child.
 

Good4Nothin

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What kind of miracles?

All kinds. Ordinary daily life can be filled with miracles. Things coming together in amazing ways you could not have planned or predicted. The power of prayer, of letting God into our lives. When you stop blocking miracles with your ego and preconceptions.

And no, I never took any "course in miracles" and I am not promoting any New Age cult. This is just things I have learned and observed personally.
 

Dragonfly

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We were created by something infinitely smarter than ourselves. We are all connected in ways we can't understand. Life is meaningful in ways we can't imagine.

It makes sense scientifically.

No. No it doesn't.
 

zyzygy

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All kinds. Ordinary daily life can be filled with miracles. Things coming together in amazing ways you could not have planned or predicted. The power of prayer, of letting God into our lives. When you stop blocking miracles with your ego and preconceptions.

And no, I never took any "course in miracles" and I am not promoting any New Age cult. This is just things I have learned and observed personally.
I would not call things coming together in unexpected ways miracles.
 

zyzygy

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What are these connections that we don't understand? It couldn't be more vague.
 

Angel

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All kinds. Ordinary daily life can be filled with miracles. Things coming together in amazing ways you could not have planned or predicted. The power of prayer, of letting God into our lives. When you stop blocking miracles with your ego and preconceptions.

And no, I never took any "course in miracles" and I am not promoting any New Age cult. This is just things I have learned and observed personally.

I would not call things coming together in unexpected ways miracles.

What are these connections that we don't understand? It couldn't be more vague.

Like the man said, "When you stop blocking miracles with your ego and preconceptions," perhaps you will understand.
 

Irwin Corey

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Don't know, I'm a pound puppy.
 

Dragonfly

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For a pantheist like me, the answer is the infinitely intelligent and creative Universe. I just call it God.

As a "pantheist" please tell me this:

If you're walking down the street and a meth-head smashes you in the head with a rock to get your wallet and smartphone, then leaves you in the gutter to die a slow painful death,


who killed you?
 

Good4Nothin

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As a "pantheist" please tell me this:

If you're walking down the street and a meth-head smashes you in the head with a rock to get your wallet and smartphone, then leaves you in the gutter to die a slow painful death,


who killed you?

This is the old "life isn't perfect therefore there is no god" argument that atheists drag out every time.

I can't tell you why life isn't perfect. But I can tell you that we humans are not qualified to decide what a perfect world would be. No death? No sickness or accidents? Everything predictable? Only pleasure, no pain?

You could not believe in any kind of gods, unless your lived the protected life of a bird in a cage. Except it would go on forever, you would never die. What could be more horrible.
 

Dragonfly

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This is the old "life isn't perfect therefore there is no god" argument that atheists drag out every time.

I can't tell you why life isn't perfect. But I can tell you that we humans are not qualified to decide what a perfect world would be. No death? No sickness or accidents? Everything predictable? Only pleasure, no pain?

You could not believe in any kind of gods, unless your lived the protected life of a bird in a cage. Except it would go on forever, you would never die. What could be more horrible.

Deflection noted.
 

Omega Man

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For a pantheist like me, the answer is the infinitely intelligent and creative Universe. I just call it God.

I naturally assume that whoever made me is a whole lot smarter than I am. Therefore I do not worship my own intelligence and ego. I know they are limited and very likely to be wrong most of the time.

Atheists, however, do not believe that we were made. Instead, they think that atoms and molecules banged into each other randomly and by accident somehow created life. They have no explanations for how this could have happened, but they feel very certain that it did.

Therefore, atheists have no reason to doubt human intelligence. They do not suspect that their reasoning process could be wrong.

So I see this as one big difference between believers and atheists. BUT -- fundamentalist Christians have something in common with atheists.

Fundamentalist Christians don't have faith in their own intelligence and reasoning powers, but they DO have faith in the intelligence of the people who wrote their bible.

Atheists and fundamentalist Christians are the outspoken extremes in the US. But most Americans are probably pantheists like me, even if they don't know the word and never thought much about it.

We were created by something infinitely smarter than ourselves. We are all connected in ways we can't understand. Life is meaningful in ways we can't imagine.

This kind of faith is inclusive, not divisive. It makes sense scientifically. No, it can't be proven. But we can each experience its miracles in our personal lives.

Hmmmm. With all you've stated here, you sound more like a panentheist, than a pantheist. But I could be mistaken.


OM
 

Good4Nothin

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Hmmmm. With all you've stated here, you sound more like a panentheist, than a pantheist. But I could be mistaken.


OM

Ok, makes sense to me.
 

Angel

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Hmmmm. With all you've stated here, you sound more like a panentheist, than a pantheist. But I could be mistaken.


OM

Ok, makes sense to me.
Panentheism
“Panentheism” is a constructed word composed of the English equivalents of the Greek terms “pan”, meaning all, “en”, meaning in, and “theism”, meaning God. Panentheism considers God and the world to be inter-related with the world being in God and God being in the world. It offers an increasingly popular alternative to both traditional theism and pantheism. Panentheism seeks to avoid either isolating God from the world as traditional theism often does or identifying God with the world as pantheism does. Traditional theistic systems emphasize the difference between God and the world while panentheism stresses God’s active presence in the world and the world’s influence upon God. Pantheism emphasizes God’s presence in the world but panentheism maintains the identity and significance of the non-divine.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panentheism/

A very reasonable belief.
 

Good4Nothin

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Seems to me the distinction lies within ones belief of whether or not God (whatever God is - IF it is) interferes in the lives and fates of humans. Panentheists seems to think so; pantheists not so much.


OM

Neither one says that god(s) "interfere" in our lives. We are part of God and god is within each of us. How could there be any interference?

I think we inherited a ton of problems from the old Christian philosophers, such as Descartes, who insisted that God is separate from the world.
 

Omega Man

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Neither one says that god(s) "interfere" in our lives. We are part of God and god is within each of us. How could there be any interference?

I think we inherited a ton of problems from the old Christian philosophers, such as Descartes, who insisted that God is separate from the world.

So then you are saying there is no distinction.

There is a subtle distinction, thus the difference in title.


OM
 

Tim the plumber

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For a pantheist like me, the answer is the infinitely intelligent and creative Universe. I just call it God.

I naturally assume that whoever made me is a whole lot smarter than I am. Therefore I do not worship my own intelligence and ego. I know they are limited and very likely to be wrong most of the time.

Atheists, however, do not believe that we were made. Instead, they think that atoms and molecules banged into each other randomly and by accident somehow created life. They have no explanations for how this could have happened, but they feel very certain that it did.

Stop lying.

Obviously I was made. I was made by biological process inside my mother.

If what you were trying to say was what process caused the human species to happen then we can discuss evolution. You do not currently understand what that is. You will have to learn.


Therefore, atheists have no reason to doubt human intelligence. They do not suspect that their reasoning process could be wrong.

Stop lying.

The basis of reasonable thinking is starting from understanding that you don't know and then you get answers that talk about degrees of confidence.

Certianty is for the fools. Intelligence leads to constsnt doubt.


So I see this as one big difference between believers and atheists. BUT -- fundamentalist Christians have something in common with atheists.

Fundamentalist Christians don't have faith in their own intelligence and reasoning powers, but they DO have faith in the intelligence of the people who wrote their bible.

Atheists and fundamentalist Christians are the outspoken extremes in the US. But most Americans are probably pantheists like me, even if they don't know the word and never thought much about it.

Stop lying.

You do not know what most Americans are and they definately would not decribe themselves as pantheists. You also don't know what an atheist is.


We were created by something infinitely smarter than ourselves. We are all connected in ways we can't understand.

Evolution over billions of years and millions of generations of mamals alone is a very good method of getting to highly efficent forms.

Life is meaningful in ways we can't imagine.

If you say so. Have you any evidence for this? Or just making **** up?

This kind of faith is inclusive, not divisive. It makes sense scientifically.

No it does not. Were you home schooled?

No, it can't be proven. But we can each experience its miracles in our personal lives.

So that's utterly not anything to do with science then.

Stop lying.
 
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