White AmeriKKKA tries to deport an American soldier who is an American citizen (1 Viewer)

[Zalatix]

ICE tried to deport U.S. citizen and Marine veteran in Michigan - Story | WJBK

DETROIT (AP) - A Marine veteran with post-traumatic stress disorder was held for three days for possible deportation before federal authorities learned that he was a U.S. citizen born in Michigan, lawyers said Wednesday.

Jilmar Ramos-Gomez, 27, lives in the Grand Rapids area. He was released on Dec. 17 from a detention center in Calhoun County after personal records were provided to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, according to the American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan.

"Why did they think he was a noncitizen? Did they get him confused with someone else? Who knows," ACLU attorney Miriam Aukerman said. "This is an individual who's incredibly vulnerable with a mental illness."

ICE released a statement Wednesday evening saying Ramos-Gomez told its officers he was "a foreign national illegally present in the U.S," and the agency took him into custody on Dec. 14. ICE said it released him three days later after receiving documentation suggesting he was a U.S. citizen.

Aaaaaand it turns out Ramos-Gomez never made such a statement and ICE made it all up. This is why people of color want to overthrow White America. Because in White America they try to deport American citizens on false charges.

And this isn't the first time this has happened.

 

[AlphaOmega]

ICE tried to deport U.S. citizen and Marine veteran in Michigan - Story | WJBK

Aaaaaand it turns out Ramos-Gomez never made such a statement and ICE made it all up. This is why people of color want to overthrow White America. Because in White America they try to deport American citizens on false charges.

And this isn't the first time this has happened.

Where does your article say ICE made it all up?

 

[Kal'Stang]

ICE tried to deport U.S. citizen and Marine veteran in Michigan - Story | WJBK

Aaaaaand it turns out Ramos-Gomez never made such a statement and ICE made it all up. This is why people of color want to overthrow White America. Because in White America they try to deport American citizens on false charges.

And this isn't the first time this has happened.

Neither of your links states, suggests, or implies that Mr. Gomez never made such a statement. And due to his mental condition it is possible that he said such without meaning to. PTSD sucks big time especially when its as severe a case as what Mr. Gomez apparently has. It does appear though that as soon as ICE confirmed that they had the wrong person they let him go.

Your second link looks to appear as if the Sheriff's office was the ones at fault also. Again, as soon as ICE found out that they had the wrong guy they released him.

Seems to me that ICE has the same kind of problem that the "No Fly List" has of getting the wrong people. Nothing a bit of reform couldn't fix.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

This is one of the many reasons most Americans oppose the GOP's Arpaio style tactics of rounding up everyone they find they think are illegal immigrants. It is not legally required or incumbent on American citizens to prove that they're Americans when in public. This poor veteran had the bad luck of being hispanic in public without ID, and the ICE agents lacked the moral and legal fortitude to verify it before locking him up. These are brown-shirt tactics.

Neither of your links states, suggests, or implies that Mr. Gomez never made such a statement. And due to his mental condition it is possible that he said such without meaning to. PTSD sucks big time especially when its as severe a case as what Mr. Gomez apparently has. It does appear though that as soon as ICE confirmed that they had the wrong person they let him go.
Your second link looks to appear as if the Sheriff's office was the ones at fault also. Again, as soon as ICE found out that they had the wrong guy they released him.
Seems to me that ICE has the same kind of problem that the "No Fly List" has of getting the wrong people. Nothing a bit of reform couldn't fix.

Ah yes, let's just let ICE nab and imprison any brown person they feel like until that person proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's not an illegal immigrant. This is not how a just society functions. It is the responsibility of ICE to prove his illegal status, not for Americans to defend themselves from their inquisition.

 

[calamity]

ICE tried to deport U.S. citizen and Marine veteran in Michigan - Story | WJBK

Aaaaaand it turns out Ramos-Gomez never made such a statement and ICE made it all up. This is why people of color want to overthrow White America. Because in White America they try to deport American citizens on false charges.

And this isn't the first time this has happened.

He didn’t have his “papers” on him. Welcome to Trumptopia: The place where brown people better have on them a birth certificate Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter agree is real.

 

[OrphanSlug]

ICE tried to deport U.S. citizen and Marine veteran in Michigan - Story | WJBK

Aaaaaand it turns out Ramos-Gomez never made such a statement and ICE made it all up. This is why people of color want to overthrow White America. Because in White America they try to deport American citizens on false charges.

And this isn't the first time this has happened.

This has become a national embarrassment. The subject of this story is the exception, we have deported people who served this nation some going overseas to fight our fights.

It is ridiculous how far off the rails the immigration debate has gone.

 

[gdgyva]

This is one of the many reasons most Americans oppose the GOP's Arpaio style tactics of rounding up everyone they find they think are illegal immigrants. It is not legally required or incumbent on American citizens to prove that they're Americans when in public. This poor veteran had the bad luck of being hispanic in public without ID, and the ICE agents lacked the moral and legal fortitude to verify it before locking him up. These are brown-shirt tactics.




Ah yes, let's just let ICE nab and imprison any brown person they feel like until that person proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's not an illegal immigrant. This is not how a just society functions. It is the responsibility of ICE to prove his illegal status, not for Americans to defend themselves from their inquisition.

This is why a national ID card would be so useful....issu3d free of charge to every citizen, and must be carried at all times

Use it for flights, banks, voting, etc

And for those who don’t drive...which is a lot of people, everyone will have the exact same ID

 

[bongsaway]

ICE tried to deport U.S. citizen and Marine veteran in Michigan - Story | WJBK

Aaaaaand it turns out Ramos-Gomez never made such a statement and ICE made it all up. This is why people of color want to overthrow White America. Because in White America they try to deport American citizens on false charges.

And this isn't the first time this has happened.

Well that's good news. If there's another shutdown the federal workers will know what to say in order to get free room and board for a few days at a time. And ICE didn't lie, they just confused the facts over paperwork.

 

[Kal'Stang]

This is one of the many reasons most Americans oppose the GOP's Arpaio style tactics of rounding up everyone they find they think are illegal immigrants. It is not legally required or incumbent on American citizens to prove that they're Americans when in public. This poor veteran had the bad luck of being hispanic in public without ID, and the ICE agents lacked the moral and legal fortitude to verify it before locking him up. These are brown-shirt tactics.




Ah yes, let's just let ICE nab and imprison any brown person they feel like until that person proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's not an illegal immigrant. This is not how a just society functions. It is the responsibility of ICE to prove his illegal status, not for Americans to defend themselves from their inquisition.

:roll: Why must it always come down to race with you? In a country with 300 million people don't you think that's its possible that mistakes with LEO's will happen? This isn't the first time mistakes like this has happened. Such mistakes happen across all parts of the government, both federal and civilian. How many times have LEO's raided the wrong house? How many people that are innocent are on the No Fly List? How often are our troops sent into the wrong area or given bad intel that screws up everything royally? We're all just human man. Human's make mistakes. And the more humans that there are the more mistakes happen. It's a part of life. Get over it already.

Yes, it sucks when mistakes happen. And yes, sometimes its not a mistake but instead some racist asshole. But to attribute these mistakes as being purely about race is nothing more than race baiting BS. And its dividing this country. YOU are a part of the reason that this country is so divided. You take every single bad thing that happens and attribute it to race and racism. It's stupid, non-productive, dividing, and racist in itself.

Now, if you can prove to me that what happened was because of racism then I'll stand with you and decry it. But when you just throw out the word with no proof, expect to either be ignored or called out on.

For instance, in the second link of the OP, based on the available information, the sheriff and deputies were being racist. They should be fired with prejudice and replaced, possibly jailed. But ICE did nothing wrong intentionally. Instead of condemning them perhaps we should instead be trying to think of ways to improve the system so that these mistakes are minimized at the very least, gotten rid of all together at best.

 

[chuckiechan]

ICE tried to deport U.S. citizen and Marine veteran in Michigan - Story | WJBK

Aaaaaand it turns out Ramos-Gomez never made such a statement and ICE made it all up. This is why people of color want to overthrow White America. Because in White America they try to deport American citizens on false charges.

And this isn't the first time this has happened.

What an empty post.

The guy lied about his status and they believed him. I suppose if went into the police department and confessed to a burglary, you'd be pissed that they believed you and held you while they investigated?

Need a screwdriver?

And communism is a white idea, btw, so you brown people won't have it any better with them.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

:roll: Why must it always come down to race with you? In a country with 300 million people don't you think that's its possible that mistakes with LEO's will happen? This isn't the first time mistakes like this has happened. Such mistakes happen across all parts of the government, both federal and civilian. How many times have LEO's raided the wrong house? How many people that are innocent are on the No Fly List? How often are our troops sent into the wrong area or given bad intel that screws up everything royally? We're all just human man. Human's make mistakes. And the more humans that there are the more mistakes happen. It's a part of life. Get over it already.

Yes, it sucks when mistakes happen. And yes, sometimes its not a mistake but instead some racist asshole. But to attribute these mistakes as being purely about race is nothing more than race baiting BS. And its dividing this country. YOU are a part of the reason that this country is so divided. You take every single bad thing that happens and attribute it to race and racism. It's stupid, non-productive, dividing, and racist in itself.

Now, if you can prove to me that what happened was because of racism then I'll stand with you and decry it. But when you just throw out the word with no proof, expect to either be ignored or called out on.

For instance, in the second link of the OP, based on the available information, the sheriff and deputies were being racist. They should be fired with prejudice and replaced, possibly jailed. But ICE did nothing wrong intentionally. Instead of condemning them perhaps we should instead be trying to think of ways to improve the system so that these mistakes are minimized at the very least, gotten rid of all together at best.

Because it is 100% about race. They're not locking up white people then demanding they prove their citizenship to be released. You can not sit there with a straight face and tell me ICE isn't profiling Hispanic looking Americans.

I'm not the reason America is divided, but Trump and his brown shirt tactics are certainly making it worse.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Because it is 100% about race. They're not locking up white people then demanding they prove their citizenship to be released. You can not sit there with a straight face and tell me ICE isn't profiling Hispanic looking Americans.

I'm not the reason America is divided, but Trump and his brown shirt tactics are certainly making it worse.

Only racists think that its always about race. The KKK, white supremacists, stormfronters, they all think its "100% about race". Hows it feel to be in the same crowd?

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Only racists think that its always about race. The KKK, white supremacists, stormfronters, they all think its "100% about race". Hows it feel to be in the same crowd?

Uh huh, I'm sure it's a total coincidence that these things only seem to happen to latino Americans. You're being intentionally obtuse and dishonest to pretend that ICE doesn't use racial profiling as a core tactic. No, it is not incumbent on all Americans to be constantly ready to defend their citizenship while in public.

 

[MACS-24]

This is why a national ID card would be so useful....issu3d free of charge to every citizen, and must be carried at all times

Use it for flights, banks, voting, etc

And for those who don’t drive...which is a lot of people, everyone will have the exact same ID

Sounds pretty good except the "must be carried at all times" part. Excluding driving in public, I like freedom of movement too much.

 

[gdgyva]

Sounds pretty good except the "must be carried at all times" part. Excluding driving in public, I like freedom of movement too much.

Why is carrying an ID going to cause you an issue on freedom of movement?

Most men carry a wallet or a money clip....ID can go in it

For women, even if not carrying purse they usually carry a card for cash etc...and something to carry it in

One small card will do wonders....everyone gets the exact same one

 

[MACS-24]

Why is carrying an ID going to cause you an issue on freedom of movement?

Most men carry a wallet or a money clip....ID can go in it

For women, even if not carrying purse they usually carry a card for cash etc...and something to carry it in

One small card will do wonders....everyone gets the exact same one

Depends on what the "penalty" is. Many times I'm messing around at home dressing quite casually, without ID, and decide to walk down the street. Most of the time I don't stop to think Oh I need to grab my ID first, lol, I just go. If I get stopped for some reason for questions and don't produce ID, what's my crime, what's my punishment? ID's are useful, don't get me wrong, it can be very beneficial. I try to make sure I have it when on bicycle or running, and especially on the water, it may help save my life. But in those instances, I plan for it.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Uh huh, I'm sure it's a total coincidence that these things only seem to happen to latino Americans. You're being intentionally obtuse and dishonest to pretend that ICE doesn't use racial profiling as a core tactic. No, it is not incumbent on all Americans to be constantly ready to defend their citizenship while in public.

"seem" is the key word there. The only times you've heard about it is via the news. You've never actually attempted to find out for sure have you? Tell me, why do you think that the government knows that all races come into the US illegally? Do you think that the statistics on that is made up in order to cover up some nefarious racist agenda?

In any case, without evidence you have nothing but assumptions based on your own biases that ICE uses racial profiling. Do you have such evidence? Anecdotal evidence of "well i see this more than...." is not evidence of anything. Now, you may be able to come up with individualized cases, but your claim is about the whole of ICE and as such you must provide evidence based on that. I'll wait. If you do have evidence and present it then I'll easily join you in denouncing them.

 

[gdgyva]

Depends on what the "penalty" is. Many times I'm messing around at home dressing quite casually, without ID, and decide to walk down the street. Most of the time I don't stop to think Oh I need to grab my ID first, lol, I just go. If I get stopped for some reason for questions and don't produce ID, what's my crime, what's my punishment? ID's are useful, don't get me wrong, it can be very beneficial. I try to make sure I have it when on bicycle or running, and especially on the water, it may help save my life. But in those instances, I plan for it.

As long as you can provide name, social, and DOB, and they can match your face to that record in database then no penalty

But if you give false info, or your not in database then you can be detained until the authorities figure out who you are

 

[MACS-24]

As long as you can provide name, social, and DOB, and they can match your face to that record in database then no penalty

But if you give false info, or your not in database then you can be detained until the authorities figure out who you are

I'm okay with that. I think we basically have that now minus National ID.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Because it is 100% about race. They're not locking up white people then demanding they prove their citizenship to be released. You can not sit there with a straight face and tell me ICE isn't profiling Hispanic looking Americans.

I'm not the reason America is divided, but Trump and his brown shirt tactics are certainly making it worse.

There’s a maintenance man who has done work on my place and lives in the neighborhood. He’s from Holland and has been living in this country illegally for the last 16 years. He owns a house and has a 10-year-old daughter that was born here. I’ve asked him if he’s worried about getting caught by immigration and he’s not, because he’s white and not from a country that’s as he puts it “on the hit list” And I will add that I am indifferent to his legal status.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

"seem" is the key word there. The only times you've heard about it is via the news. You've never actually attempted to find out for sure have you? Tell me, why do you think that the government knows that all races come into the US illegally? Do you think that the statistics on that is made up in order to cover up some nefarious racist agenda?
In any case, without evidence you have nothing but assumptions based on your own biases that ICE uses racial profiling. Do you have such evidence? Anecdotal evidence of "well i see this more than...." is not evidence of anything. Now, you may be able to come up with individualized cases, but your claim is about the whole of ICE and as such you must provide evidence based on that. I'll wait. If you do have evidence and present it then I'll easily join you in denouncing them.

There’s a maintenance man who has done work on my place and lives in the neighborhood. He’s from Holland and has been living in this country illegally for the last 16 years. He owns a house and has a 10-year-old daughter that was born here. I’ve asked him if he’s worried about getting caught by immigration and he’s not, because he’s white and not from a country that’s as he puts it “on the hit list” And I will add that I am indifferent to his legal status.

Haha, seriously. That Kal thinks ICE doesn't use racial profiling when everyone with a brain knows they do is too stupid to take seriously. Fact is the white foreigner who looks like he belongs here is far less likely to be randomly stopped and asked for papers than the extremely hispanic American just minding his own business.

 

[Mr Person]

Haha, seriously. That Kal thinks ICE doesn't use racial profiling when everyone with a brain knows they do is too stupid to take seriously. Fact is the white foreigner who looks like he belongs here is far less likely to be randomly stopped and asked for papers than the extremely hispanic American just minding his own business.

Some people appear to feel it is mighty important to muddy the water in every single thread about a possible racial something.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Haha, seriously. That Kal thinks ICE doesn't use racial profiling when everyone with a brain knows they do is too stupid to take seriously. Fact is the white foreigner who looks like he belongs here is far less likely to be randomly stopped and asked for papers than the extremely hispanic American just minding his own business.

Some people appear to feel it is mighty important to muddy the water in every single thread about a possible racial something.

You are both quite free to prove RabidAlpaca's assertion. Like I said, I'll wait.

 

[Mr Person]

You are both quite free to prove RabidAlpaca's assertion. Like I said, I'll wait.

"Prove"?

Racial profiling has been shown across just about any law enforcement agency its looked at. One little example: several years ago, an intensive analysis of data from NYPD indicated that black people were stopped and frisked for (1) weapons (2) substance-contraband at about 9 times the rate of whites, despite the whites that actually were stopped themselves having a higher rate of possession of both. Just one example. You can find a link with a quick google search, especially if nytimes.com is the domain searched for.

But here we're talking about ICE. They aren't stopping whites with some variety of American accent to demand papers. Think about it.




Want to find proof? There do seem to be plenty of fruitful-looking results with a simple google search of: analysis ICE racial profiling

A quick glance at the first three links to pdfs under "Scholarly articles for analysis ICE racial profiling", right at the top of search results, look promising. Especially the ones on CAP's intersection with law enforcement profiling. (Ie, Gardner & Kohli, UC Berkeley Law)

Unless there's a way to link whole pdfs, you'll have to do the search and actually go read them. The first three add up to something like 80ish pages.








But "prove it"? As in, read fifty pages I've already heard about over the years, then summarize it all so it can be summarily dismissed? Some problems.

1. When you snark at me about not reading a lengthy detailed point that I've wasted the time putting together - politely worded or not - while leaving the thread with a Parthian shot that only quotes a few of the words, I'm really not so inclined to go digging at some future challenge from you that I go digging to gather proof for your inspection. And those are the few times you bother responding.

2. I can't remember a single time when someone here demanded "proof" or "evidence", then actually stuck around to go through it in the details.

3. "Proof" on a question this complex takes a ****load of time. It takes far more time than you or other internet debate board members want to spend. Like I said, the first three articles alone are over 80 pages together. The data they analyzed would take far more pages. So, when you demand "proof", what is the probability you are honestly willing to spend the time necessary to understand that proof?

Those don't look good to me in combination. Maybe I'll stick around if you actually do read them and say why they're wrong. In detail, and not based on one or two lines you think you can attack.

 

[Kal'Stang]

"Prove"?

Racial profiling has been shown across just about any law enforcement agency its looked at. One little example: several years ago, an intensive analysis of data from NYPD indicated that black people were stopped and frisked for (1) weapons (2) substance-contraband at about 9 times the rate of whites, despite the whites that actually were stopped themselves having a higher rate of possession of both. Just one example. You can find a link with a quick google search, especially if nytimes.com is the domain searched for.

But here we're talking about ICE. They aren't stopping whites with some variety of American accent to demand papers. Think about it.




Want to find proof? There do seem to be plenty of fruitful-looking results with a simple google search of: analysis ICE racial profiling

A quick glance at the first three links to pdfs under "Scholarly articles for analysis ICE racial profiling", right at the top of search results, look promising. Especially the ones on CAP's intersection with law enforcement profiling. (Ie, Gardner & Kohli, UC Berkeley Law)

Unless there's a way to link whole pdfs, you'll have to do the search and actually go read them. The first three add up to something like 80ish pages.








But "prove it"? As in, read fifty pages I've already heard about over the years, then summarize it all so it can be summarily dismissed?

1. When you snark at me about not reading a lengthy detailed point that I've wasted the time putting together - politely worded or not - while leaving the thread with a Parthian shot that only quotes a few of the words, I'm really not so inclined to go digging at some future challenge from you that I go digging to gather proof for your inspection. And those are the few times you bother responding.

2. I can't remember a single time when someone here demanded "proof" or "evidence", then actually stuck around to go through it in the details.

Those don't look good to me in combination. Maybe I'll stick around if you actually do read them and say why they're wrong. In detail, and not based on one or two lines you think you can attack.

If there's a link from google to the PDF then you can link the PDF here. I've done it numerous times.

That LEO's in the past have used racial profiling is not in question here. What is at question is whether ICE as a whole uses it right now. It's not my job to provide the proof. If you want to make the assertion then you have to provide the proof. That's how things go. And whatever "scholarly work" you provide had best have corroborating evidence with it and not just be an opinion piece. That you said those links that you saw "looked promising" makes me wonder if you actually read them though. With such wording its likely you just glanced at them to see if they "support" your beliefs without actually reading the whole thing to see if they do.

Don't worry, I'll continue to wait.