White AmeriKKKA tries to deport an American soldier who is an American citizen

[Mr Person]

If there's a link from google to the PDF then you can link the PDF here. I've done it numerous times.

That LEO's in the past have used racial profiling is not in question here. What is at question is whether ICE as a whole uses it right now. It's not my job to provide the proof. If you want to make the assertion then you have to provide the proof. That's how things go. And whatever "scholarly work" you provide had best have corroborating evidence with it and not just be an opinion piece. That you said those links that you saw "looked promising" makes me wonder if you actually read them though. With such wording its likely you just glanced at them to see if they "support" your beliefs without actually reading the whole thing to see if they do.

Don't worry, I'll continue to wait.

^
All anyone ever needs to know when Kal'Stang asks for proof: he's lying, and no, he most certainly is not trying to elicit a response on the topic of the thread.




PS: The articles are still there. I gave you the search terms.

 

[Grokmaster]

ICE tried to deport U.S. citizen and Marine veteran in Michigan - Story | WJBK

Aaaaaand it turns out Ramos-Gomez never made such a statement and ICE made it all up. This is why people of color want to overthrow White America. Because in White America they try to deport American citizens on false charges.

And this isn't the first time this has happened.

Just makeup your own facts.

 

[Kal'Stang]

^
All anyone ever needs to know when Kal'Stang asks for proof: he's lying, and no, he most certainly is not trying to elicit a response on the topic of the thread.




PS: The articles are still there. I gave you the search terms.

Not my job to go searching for something that may or may not exist or provide proof for YOUR assertions. I'll continue to wait.

 

[Grokmaster]

^
All anyone ever needs to know when Kal'Stang asks for proof: he's lying, and no, he most certainly is not trying to elicit a response on the topic of the thread.




PS: The articles are still there. I gave you the search terms.

And , yet, you fail to provide the proof of your claims...preferring to attack his requesting the proof, as though "THAT's THE PROBLEM", instead of your lack of proof of your claims.


This place....GEEZ...

 

[Grokmaster]

Not my job to go searching for something that may or may not exist or provide proof for YOUR assertions. I'll continue to wait.

Don't hold your breath...he's already initiated the first steps of the DP Left Deflection Word Dance....a favored tactic around here.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Don't hold your breath...he's already initiated the first steps of the DP Left Deflection Word Dance....a favored tactic around here.

Oh I'm not holding my breath. I don't have a death wish after all.

 

[lwf]

As long as you can provide name, social, and DOB, and they can match your face to that record in database then no penalty

But if you give false info, or your not in database then you can be detained until the authorities figure out who you are

Wouldn't this completely nullify the 4th and 5th Amendments? If checking for national ID is enough probable cause for search and seizure, then we might as well do away with the notion of probable cause all together. And if you're required to provide your name, D.O.B, and SSN upon request to keep from being imprisoned, how do you have a right to remain silent?

 

[trixare4kids]

ICE tried to deport U.S. citizen and Marine veteran in Michigan - Story | WJBK

Aaaaaand it turns out Ramos-Gomez never made such a statement and ICE made it all up. This is why people of color want to overthrow White America. Because in White America they try to deport American citizens on false charges.

And this isn't the first time this has happened.

People of color want to overthrow "white" America?
Is that so?

Prove it...

 

[trixare4kids]

Uh huh, I'm sure it's a total coincidence that these things only seem to happen to latino Americans. You're being intentionally obtuse and dishonest to pretend that ICE doesn't use racial profiling as a core tactic. No, it is not incumbent on all Americans to be constantly ready to defend their citizenship while in public.

Put your race card away.
Roughly half of all ICE border agents are Hispanic.

 

[trixare4kids]

Don't hold your breath...he's already initiated the first steps of the DP Left Deflection Word Dance....a favored tactic around here.

Last night, he attempted to do the same thing while debating me.

But of course, we're all ignorant Trump supporters so we're not bright enough to be onto the games.

 

[Fledermaus]

This is one of the many reasons most Americans oppose the GOP's Arpaio style tactics of rounding up everyone they find they think are illegal immigrants. It is not legally required or incumbent on American citizens to prove that they're Americans when in public. This poor veteran had the bad luck of being hispanic in public without ID, and the ICE agents lacked the moral and legal fortitude to verify it before locking him up. These are brown-shirt tactics.


Ah yes, let's just let ICE nab and imprison any brown person they feel like until that person proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's not an illegal immigrant. This is not how a just society functions. It is the responsibility of ICE to prove his illegal status, not for Americans to defend themselves from their inquisition.

You here is just so much wrong with this post....

Where to start?

ICE isn't nabbing brown people from the streets. He was released from law enforcement to ICE.

Then there was the usual GODWIN.

 

[gdgyva]

Wouldn't this completely nullify the 4th and 5th Amendments? If checking for national ID is enough probable cause for search and seizure, then we might as well do away with the notion of probable cause all together. And if you're required to provide your name, D.O.B, and SSN upon request to keep from being imprisoned, how do you have a right to remain silent?

When stopped for any routine thing, authorities are allowed to ascertain who it is they are dealing with. That is where you would need to provide your ID....if never stopped, it would never come up.

You could also use it as I said earlier for voting, banking, flights, etc

Every ten years we pay for a national census, which would be easier and much more reliable with a national ID system

 

[Zalatix]

Neither of your links states, suggests, or implies that Mr. Gomez never made such a statement.

Funny how quick you guys are to invoke "fake news" except when it benefits your side.

Seems to me that ICE has the same kind of problem that the "No Fly List" has of getting the wrong people. Nothing a bit of reform couldn't fix.

Like the No Fly List, ICE is the problem. We were doing quite well before they came along, we'll do quite well without them.

 

[Zalatix]

People of color want to overthrow "white" America?
Is that so?

Prove it...

See this? This is how people of color voted in 2016.

And see this? This is how people of color voted in 2018.

Feel free to give your delusional take on that.

 

[holbritter]

This is one of the many reasons most Americans oppose the GOP's Arpaio style tactics of rounding up everyone they find they think are illegal immigrants. It is not legally required or incumbent on American citizens to prove that they're Americans when in public. This poor veteran had the bad luck of being hispanic in public without ID, and the ICE agents lacked the moral and legal fortitude to verify it before locking him up. These are brown-shirt tactics.

Ah yes, let's just let ICE nab and imprison any brown person they feel like until that person proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's not an illegal immigrant. This is not how a just society functions. It is the responsibility of ICE to prove his illegal status, not for Americans to defend themselves from their inquisition.

He didn’t have his “papers” on him. Welcome to Trumptopia: The place where brown people better have on them a birth certificate Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter agree is real.

Wouldn't this completely nullify the 4th and 5th Amendments? If checking for national ID is enough probable cause for search and seizure, then we might as well do away with the notion of probable cause all together. And if you're required to provide your name, D.O.B, and SSN upon request to keep from being imprisoned, how do you have a right to remain silent?

Did you all miss the part where HE CLAIMED he was a foreign national ILLEGALLY present, and that when ICE found that not to be true they RELEASED him? Most every source of the story mentions this, yet it's conveniently overpowered by claims of racism and how bad ICE is.

 

[Fledermaus]

See this? This is how people of color voted in 2016.

And see this? This is how people of color voted in 2018.

Feel free to give your delusional take on that.

Dislike of a man =/= Overthrow of a race.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Did you all miss the part where HE CLAIMED he was a foreign national ILLEGALLY present, and that when ICE found that not to be true they RELEASED him? Most every source of the story mentions this, yet it's conveniently overpowered by claims of racism and how bad ICE is.

It's obvious you didn't read the article. He was in jail for a minor crime when ICE agents picked him up from jail because they thought he was illegal.

But ICE contacted the jail and requested that Ramos-Gomez be held for pickup.

From then on he was in ICE custody

"Once he was released from our custody, he was under the domain of ICE. Where they take him is their process," DeWitt said

Then we're expected to believe, without evidence and solely on the word of ICE that he told them he was an illegal immigrant, when he obviously wasn't.

ICE released a statement Wednesday evening saying Ramos-Gomez told its officers he was "a foreign national illegally present in the U.S," and the agency took him into custody on Dec. 14. ICE said it released him three days later after receiving documentation suggesting he was a U.S. citizen.

So if ICE got involved before he even talked to them, how could the start of all of this have been that he told ICE he was an illegal immigrant?

Now let's take a look at the guy:

By pure coincidence he just so happens to be the most hispanic looking guy in the history of hispanics.

Top it all off with these statements from his lawyer:

"Why did they think he was a noncitizen? Did they get him confused with someone else? Who knows," ACLU attorney Miriam Aukerman said. "This is an individual who's incredibly vulnerable with a mental illness."

Aukerman said Ramos-Gomez' treatment was "appalling."

The story doesn't add up, but even dumber than that is that you're seriously making the argument that ICE doesn't racially profile as a core tactic. They do, and this is one example of many. You conservatives will **** on even decorated war heroes because chasing down some ominous illegal immigrants is far more important than our constitution, justice or basic rights Americans hold.

 

[lwf]

When stopped for any routine thing, authorities are allowed to ascertain who it is they are dealing with. That is where you would need to provide your ID....if never stopped, it would never come up.

And if they can't they are not allowed to charge you with a crime based solely on not knowing who you are. Would that still be the case?

The reason authorities are allowed to demand to see license and registration when you are pulled over is because it is a crime to drive while not in possession of license and registration. If you fail to provide it, you could be arrested and charged with a misdemeanor or worse. This only applies when operating a motor vehicle or other equipment that requires a license. The fourth amendment protects someone who is not exercising one of these licensed privileges from unreasonable search and seizure. The authorities are not entitled to know who I am without my express permission unless there is probable cause to suspect I broke the law, and even then I am not required reveal that to them outside of submitting to fingerprinting upon arrest. If my prints don't show up in the database, they're SOL on figuring out my identity. This is how it should be.

You could also use it as I said earlier for voting, banking, flights, etc

Every ten years we pay for a national census, which would be easier and much more reliable with a national ID system

A national ID, in the sense of a single driver's license or ID card that works in every state and can be used interchangeably for just about anything, would certainly make many things much easier. As long as it is not a required document that must be in my possession at all times in order to prove my citizenship, I'm all for it.

 

[gdgyva]

And if they can't they are not allowed to charge you with a crime based solely on not knowing who you are. Would that still be the case?

The reason authorities are allowed to demand to see license and registration when you are pulled over is because it is a crime to drive while not in possession of license and registration. If you fail to provide it, you could be arrested and charged with a misdemeanor or worse. This only applies when operating a motor vehicle or other equipment that requires a license. The fourth amendment protects someone who is not exercising one of these licensed privileges from unreasonable search and seizure. The authorities are not entitled to know who I am without my express permission unless there is probable cause to suspect I broke the law, and even then I am not required reveal that to them outside of submitting to fingerprinting upon arrest. If my prints don't show up in the database, they're SOL on figuring out my identity. This is how it should be.



A national ID, in the sense of a single driver's license or ID card that works in every state and can be used interchangeably for just about anything, would certainly make many things much easier. As long as it is not a required document that must be in my possession at all times in order to prove my citizenship, I'm all for it.

Actually if you are a passenger in a vehicle that is stopped, and the officer wants to, he can require you prove your identity. Most people do that with a license or ID....the reason the officer can do this is to ascertain whether or not anyone has wants or warrants on them.

And yes, if you don’t show up in the national database, you would be turned over to authorities. But tha is not the main focus of the program....voting is my main usage for the ID.

 

[Zalatix]

Dislike of a man =/= Overthrow of a race.

You truly fail to understand those numbers. Republicans REPRESENT white domination.

You should be worried more about that 7% shirt in white votes AGAINST the politics of white domination.

 

[Fledermaus]

You truly fail to understand those numbers. Republicans REPRESENT white domination.

You should be worried more about that 7% shirt in white votes AGAINST the politics of white domination.

One, I am not a Republican. I haven't been for decades.

Two, your broad brushing is noted. And I always say - - - Broad Brush = Narrow Mind.

You will find that amongst conservative and libertarians there are scant few that wake up in the morning and think to themselves "What person of brown or black skin am I going to oppress today". When I drive to work there is no impulse to run over the nearest minority. No desire to trip someone because their hair or dress is different...

Basically put I don't give a damn what race, color, creed, sexual orientation, and/or religion you are as long as you and I get along on a personal level and you don't attempt to force your mores or beliefs upon me.

 

[Fledermaus]

It's obvious you didn't read the article. He was in jail for a minor crime when ICE agents picked him up from jail because they thought he was illegal.



From then on he was in ICE custody



Then we're expected to believe, without evidence and solely on the word of ICE that he told them he was an illegal immigrant, when he obviously wasn't.



So if ICE got involved before he even talked to them, how could the start of all of this have been that he told ICE he was an illegal immigrant?

Now let's take a look at the guy:

By pure coincidence he just so happens to be the most hispanic looking guy in the history of hispanics.

Top it all off with these statements from his lawyer:

The story doesn't add up, but even dumber than that is that you're seriously making the argument that ICE doesn't racially profile as a core tactic. They do, and this is one example of many. You conservatives will **** on even decorated war heroes because chasing down some ominous illegal immigrants is far more important than our constitution, justice or basic rights Americans hold.

Do you have anything resembling evidence that things did not occur as stated by ICE?

Once his status was determined what happened to him?

 

[Zalatix]

One, I am not a Republican. I haven't been for decades.

Two, your broad brushing is noted. And I always say - - - Broad Brush = Narrow Mind.

Republican, Libertarian-right, just two different chest hair hair colors of brainless knuckle draggers.

You will find that amongst conservative and libertarians there are scant few that wake up in the morning and think to themselves "What person of brown or black skin am I going to oppress today".

No, you sit around being scared of people of color because Alex Jones has eaten all the right wingers' brains and replaced it with the feces of "teh brown people are coming to rape you!" propaganda.

Basically put I don't give a damn what race, color, creed, sexual orientation, and/or religion you are as long as you and I get along on a personal level and you don't attempt to force your mores or beliefs upon me.

LOL. Your kids and grandkids will be leaving America on boats. This won't be a country for you by 2060.

 

[Zalatix]

It's obvious you didn't read the article. He was in jail for a minor crime when ICE agents picked him up from jail because they thought he was illegal.

ICE said it, we must believe! Because MURRIKA, dammit.

 

[Fledermaus]

Republican, Libertarian-right, just two different chest hair hair colors of brainless knuckle draggers.


No, you sit around being scared of people of color because Alex Jones has eaten all the right wingers' brains and replaced it with the feces of "teh brown people are coming to rape you!" propaganda.


LOL. Your kids and grandkids will be leaving America on boats. This won't be a country for you by 2060.

Name calling...

Sure sign you have lost the argument.

In addition I mock fools like Alex Jones so that dog don't hunt either.

As far a fear of little brown people I feared them so much I married in to a Mexican American family...

I also live near the border and probably have a better grasp of things than you will ever have.... So fail more. It is amusing.

Now you will excuse me while I go oppress my in-laws.