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Where do my rights end and yours begin?

Helix said:
you still have the right to believe unscientific anti-vaxxer woo spewed by people who haven't taken an entry level immunology course. you do not have the right send your unvaccinated kids to the school incubators, putting other kids and all of the rest of us at risk, though.
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If the other kids are vaccinated, there's nothing to worry about. Yes?
 
vegas giants said:
Protection. But no vaccine is 100 percent effective
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I get that, but whatever rate of effectiveness the vaccine possesses, the kids who have been vaccinated will be protected to the fullest extent of that vaccine.

Or, you're inadvertantly admitting that the vaccine is useless.
 
apdst said:
I get that, but whatever rate of effectiveness the vaccine possesses, the kids who have been vaccinated will be protected to the fullest extent of that vaccine.

Or, you're inadvertantly admitting that the vaccine is useless.
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Not useless. Just not 100 percent. Your airbags are helpful in a crash.....just not 100 percent
 
vegas giants said:
Not useless. Just not 100 percent. Your airbags are helpful in a crash.....just not 100 percent
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That doesn't explain why you want to deny people the right to refuse medical treatment.

Is it because you want the government to force your beliefs on everyone else and ****'em if they don't like it?
 
apdst said:
That doesn't explain why you want to deny people the right to refuse medical treatment.

Is it because you want the government to force your beliefs on everyone else and ****'em if they don't like it?
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They can deny medical treatment.....just stay out of school. If they deny treatment for TB should we let them in school?
 
vegas giants said:
They can deny medical treatment.....just stay out of school. If they deny treatment for TB should we let them in school?
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If the other kids are vaxed, there shouldn't be anything to worry about.
 
apdst said:
That doesn't explain why you want to deny people the right to refuse medical treatment.

Is it because you want the government to force your beliefs on everyone else and ****'em if they don't like it?
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Don’t equate scientific realities with mere “beliefs” that, more often than not, amount to loony tune conspiracy theories.
 
Helix said:
since i stated that it's my opinion that parents don't have the right to put many others at risk by placing unvaccinated children in schools, wouldn't that include Hispanics? once you guess, i'll tell you the answer.
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Are all Hispanics illegals? I was very specific in my question.
 
VanceMack said:
Are all Hispanics illegals? I was very specific in my question.
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i realize that you want this to be a discussion about immigration rather than about science that you don't understand, but i'm not biting.

now, do you have a guess?
 
HowardBThiname said:
So, even though the risk of immunizing can be reduced, it cannot be completely negated. Therefore, we cannot force the vaccines. We can educate and we can encourage.
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I dont think anyone said that vaccines should be forced on kids. Just that if they arent, without legitimate documented reason, they shouldnt attend public schools.

And schools do deny them attendance and are within their rights.
 
independentusa said:
https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/2002221983142615/
This is a video showing the reaction of what those who are against vaccinating their children at a hearing where some of their "rights" have been reduced. My question is where do you stand on where do these peoples rights not to vaccinate their children begin and where do they end. I think that if they don't want their children vaccinated, then keep them out of the public where they can infect children whose illnesses don't allow them to be vaccinated. Keep them out of public schools. If private schools allow them that is fine with me. Don't take them to public areas where they can infect other children. The problem is, these people want both, the right not to vaccinate and the right to take their un-vaccinated children anywhere. That I believe is where their rights end, where they can cause harm to others.
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My view on vaccinations changed when the daughter of a friend of mine went into anaphylactic shock immediately following a gardasil jab,
and a week later, and in the coming months up to today she is experience seizures --- she never suffered from them before.

I received a crap load of vaxxes in the Navy 40 years ago, and was made sick as hell, though I recovered. but, I started getting migraines, and only in the last few years, have they abated and I started taking sumatriptan 15 years ago ( I wish i had learned about it sooner, back when it was invented, I've suffered for many years, once, twice, sometimes three times per week). I can't pin that on the vaccines, but I am highly suspicious.

You are talking about forcing someone to inject foreign DNA into their body. That's pushing things too far. mandated vaccination is tyranny, period. There is no evidence unvaxxed kids are a danger to anyone. The only ones that are a danger to anyone are those with infectious diseases, and they may, or may not be, vaccinated. History is replete with outbreaks in highly vaxxed populations.

Kids today are sicker than ever,

We're getting sicker: More Americans have a chronic health condition - Vitals
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/cusp/201312/young-americans-are-sicker-ever

so if vaccines are doing anything, well, one thing they are not doing is making kids healthier.


Outbreaks in vaccinated populations

Mumps Outbreak
Mumps Epidemic --- Iowa, 2006
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5507a2.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1861205
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/suppl_1/S559.full.pdf+html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1884314
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=3618578
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198703263161303
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000476.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1956577/
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/03/13/cid.cis287
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15918913
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/6/5/00-0512_article.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00049244.htm
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021662
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19593254
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I'm undecided about vaccines, really. when i was a kid, we only got a few, and not before the age of 2, now the are giving kids vaccinations at birth, and a boatload of jabs before the age of 6, some what 48 jabs, and now kids are getting all kinds of chronic conditions? I know, blame it on something else, I'm getting so I don't trust the medical establishment and their being in bed with Pharma, etc. I love my meds, but vaccines, not so sure if they are doing society more good than harm, we may have crossed some threshold where too much of a good thing is a bad thing. I don't know, I'm no expert.

Vaccinate, don't listen to me :)
 
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Lursa said:
I dont think anyone said that vaccines should be forced on kids. Just that if they arent, without legitimate documented reason, they shouldnt attend public schools.

And schools do deny them attendance and are within their rights.
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Then vaxxed kids should stay away from the general market place, where there are adults, many, if not most, of whom are not up to date on their vaccines, or don't have many of the new vaccines.

You can't have it both ways.
 
Helix said:
you still have the right to believe unscientific anti-vaxxer woo spewed by people who haven't taken an entry level immunology course.
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You need to study the "Carl Sagan Baloney Detection Kit" To wit:


"Arguments from authority carry little weight — “authorities” have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that in science there are no authorities; at most, there are experts"


you do not have the right send your unvaccinated kids to the school incubators,
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If that is true, then you do not have the right to take your kids to theatres, markets, or wherever their are adults, given that many, if not most, are not up to date on there vaccinations, or have not recieved many of hte new vaccines that did not exist when they were children.
putting other kids and all of the rest of us at risk, though.
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Vaccine hysteria

The only persons putting you are your children at "risk" are those with communicable diseases, and that may, or may not be, the vaccinated.

Outbreaks in highly vaccinated populations

NEJM Mumps
Mumps Epidemic --- Iowa, 2006
Mumps Outbreak at a Summer Camp --- New York, 2005
Mumps outbreak in a highly vaccinated population. - PubMed - NCBI
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/suppl_1/S559.full.pdf+html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1884314
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=3618578
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198703263161303
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000476.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1956577/
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/03/13/cid.cis287
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15918913
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/6/5/00-0512_article.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00049244.htm
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021662
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19593254
 
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Beaudreaux said:
[...]
In your example of anti-vaxers, you can sue them if you can prove that their unvaccinated child, and the decision they made to not vaccinate their child, caused you or your family harm.
;...]
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You would never win that suit. Over $3.5 billion has been paid out in the National Child Vaccine Injury Act ( vaccine court )

History is replete with outbreaks in vaccinated populations.

NEJM
Mumps Epidemic --- Iowa, 2006
Mumps Outbreak at a Summer Camp --- New York, 2005
Mumps outbreak in a highly vaccinated population. - PubMed - NCBI
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/suppl_1/S559.full.pdf+html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1884314
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=3618578
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198703263161303
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000476.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1956577/
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/03/13/cid.cis287
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15918913
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/6/5/00-0512_article.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00049244.htm
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021662
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19593254


A good lawyer could tear that premise to shreds.
 
_Sal said:
^^^ yup, I am okay with this, except maybe they shouldn't be allowed out in public either
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The vaxxed kids shouldn't be allowed out in public if you are not going to allow unvaxxed kids in school

Public places have adults, many of whom haven't received the new vaxxes kids today received, nor are they up to date on their vaccinations
 
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