Where do my rights end and yours begin?

[vegas giants]

Nah, my kids all grew up -- very healthy. They got every single one of their vaccines and they had great childhoods (to hear them tell it) as well.

There is a point where parents go too far -- and you went there.

You have an opinion. And it is dismissed

 

[Lursa]

Actually EVERYONE who knows about risk benefit ratios can absolutely see my posts and realize that I understand the concept.

And EVERYONE who knows about risk/benefit ratios.. can absolutely see your posts..and realize that you are throwing that concept out blindly to try and make it look like you know something of the subject.

In fact, I encourage you to take my posts and yours.. print them off when it comes to the discussion of risk benefit ratios.. and go down to your local college science professor.. Anyone that understand risk benefit analysis. Heck it could be an economics professor. ... and then you have a discussion and when they get done telling you that what I said regarding the subject is absolutely spot on.. then you come back to the group.

None of that changes the fact that you havent been able to convince anyone that your comprehension of risk/benefit are accurate.

Feel free to carry on, doesnt bother me at all.

 

[jaeger19]

None of that changes the fact that you havent been able to convince anyone that your comprehension of risk/benefit are accurate.

Feel free to carry on, doesnt bother me at all.

Well.. being correct .. and convincing people that are holding emotional beliefs that those emotional beliefs are not correct are two different things.

Again.. I encourage you to take my posts (so you are presenting EXACTLY what I said.. and not what you THINK I said on the subject) and go to someone that has experience with risk.benefit ratio's.. economics, medicine, etc..

Or feel free to remain ignorant... your choice.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

No its not a simple question. Just because you don't know enough about vaccinations isn't my fault. It is not crap that they all have risk.. that's a fact. and that risk changes with who you are giving that vaccine to.. and WHAT vaccinations you are talking about.



Oh.. really. So if your doctor won't see a child that is severely immune suppressed and their previous physician recommended waiting on their MMRV vaccination? What if the child has an immediate issue?

Yeah no.. physicians refusing to see kids because of "not being up to date on their immunizations".. would be a violation of their practice acts.

Now.. a physician that has seen the child,,and has recommended that they get certain vaccinations.. and the parents refuse? now then the physician can refuse to see them because of patient non compliance if they wish. but out of hand deny them regardless of their medical status, issues, and problems simply because they aren;t current? no way.

how else can medical providers get people up to date on their vaccinations IF we refuse to see patients when they are not "up to date"?

This is a game you are playing and you know it.

We are talking about the vaccines that every kid gets so long as the parents do what their doctor advises. MMR, Hep A, Hep B, DTaP and so on. We are not talking about kids that are currently immune suppressed, those are the ones that are depending on everyone else being vaccinated. Very few doctors will see kids whose parents refuse to vaccinate because as you say, they are non-compliant and you know that is exactly what my point was earlier.

Moreover, as to risks, the risk of a severe (and in most cases even moderate), side effect from a routine vaccination to a healthy child is so rare that the majority of physicians would never even see one: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

Now, don't dodge the question, do you believe this anti-vax nonsense or not?

 

[OscarLevant]

You want to make it worse....not better

I'm not seeing a refutation on any point I made.

 

[OscarLevant]

Seatbelts are no guarantee you won't be injured. But....buckle up.

You don't inject seatbelts into the body.

How many seatbelt reactions/injuries/deaths were reported to VAERS ( or SBAERS, ooops, no such thing ).,

The analogy, therefore, doesn't work.

 

[HowardBThiname]

You have an opinion. And it is dismissed

Go ahead. Dismiss my opinion.

The simple truth is that normal parents who vaccinate then feel it's safe to allow their children to play around non-vaccinated children.

And, that's the whole point of vaccination -- to keep a child from contracting the disease.

It's an odd parent, indeed, who vaccinates and then is still fearful of their child contracting the disease.

 

[vegas giants]

Go ahead. Dismiss my opinion.

The simple truth is that normal parents who vaccinate then feel it's safe to allow their children to play around non-vaccinated children.

And, that's the whole point of vaccination -- to keep a child from contracting the disease.

It's an odd parent, indeed, who vaccinates and then is still fearful of their child contracting the disease.

You have that exactly backwards.....and thus we have this debate

 

[jaeger19]

This is a game you are playing and you know it.

We are talking about the vaccines that every kid gets so long as the parents do what their doctor advises. MMR, Hep A, Hep B, DTaP and so on. We are not talking about kids that are currently immune suppressed, those are the ones that are depending on everyone else being vaccinated. Very few doctors will see kids whose parents refuse to vaccinate because as you say, they are non-compliant and you know that is exactly what my point was earlier.

Moreover, as to risks, the risk of a severe (and in most cases even moderate), side effect from a routine vaccination to a healthy child is so rare that the majority of physicians would never even see one: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

Now, don't dodge the question, do you believe this anti-vax nonsense or not?

No its not a game.

the original OP was not about "vaccines that every kid gets".. it was NOT talking about MMR, HepA, HEPB and DTap. The statement repeatedly is "vaccines are safe".. and the government "mandating vaccines to protect the herd".

That is as ignorant a position as MMR causes autism. Not all vaccines are safe.. and even the ones that are extremely safe (and have been proven over decades)for 999,000 people in a row, are not safe for that 1/million kid..

That's simply the facts. We have vaccines that are not very safe.. and only should be used when the benefit outweighs the risk. We have had vaccines.. not to mention medications.. that were thought to be safe and were approved.. only to be pulled from the market.

Again.. that's the plain facts.

Now.. we also have government officials.. who are NOT medical professional.. AND who are easily lobbied by pharmaceutical companies who DON"T have the publics best interest at heart.. but are interested in profit.

Again.. that's plain facts.

Given those plain facts.. its a very dangerous position to start with the assumption that all vaccines are safe.. they are safe for everyone.. and ESPECIALLY.. that Government officials should be mandating those vaccines.

THAT decision should be made between the parents and their medical providers. Not a government official.

AND the plain fact is that mandating vaccines is NOT really about "herd immunity" and protecting other children. IF it was.. then unvaccinated children for any reason.. would not be allowed in school because they all pose exactly the same risk. AND there would be limits on the number of children that could be unvaccinated in a particular school.

The fact is. . there is no need for mandatory vaccination for children to go to school.. the vast vast vast majority of vaccinations are done well before a kid goes to school anyway and its done because of consultation between the parents and medical providers.

Now.

Very few doctors will see kids whose parents refuse to vaccinate because as you say, they are non-compliant and you know that is exactly what my point was earlier

That's a nuanced position from you. Because I educated you on the difference between a physician being able to decide that they don't want to treat non compliant patients.. and your position that they could have a blanket policy of refusing children not vaccinated.

Now, don't dodge the question, do you believe this anti-vax nonsense or not?

Not dodging.. just being very precise and accurate in my answer. Now.. do I believe the "anti vaxxers".. that claim the MMR or polio vaccines cause autism? ABSOLUTELY NOT.. the safety of those vaccines is well established, as is the benefit vs the risk of say polio.

However,.. those aren;t just the folks that get labeled "anti vaxxer"s in this forum.. Some folks get labeled "anti vaxxers".. because they are cautious about all vaccines, and don't blindly accept that every vaccine is safe and or appropriate for their child..

And frankly.. that's a very smart position.. and its the medically correct one.