Where do my rights end and yours begin?

[WillyPete]

I have explained all of that, you just don't like my answers.

You didn't explain the difference between unsafe driving and unvaccinated kids.

Both are threats to society, but it seems only one can be tolerated.

 

[VanceMack]

you still have the right to believe unscientific anti-vaxxer woo spewed by people who haven't taken an entry level immunology course. you do not have the right send your unvaccinated kids to the school incubators, putting other kids and all of the rest of us at risk, though.

Not even if you are an illegal immigrant?

Thats where most of the outbreaks appear to be coming from.

 

[X Factor]

We are not limiting their right to choose not to vaccinate. Like any choice we make it has consequences. So you make the choice not to vaccinate and I agree you have that right, but, the government has the right to safeguard other children from your choice. That does not limit your choice.

How would you propose to enforce the part about these kids not being allowed in public places? How is anyone ever going to know?

 

[vegas giants]

You didn't explain the difference between unsafe driving and unvaccinated kids.

Both are threats to society, but it seems only one can be tolerated.

Unsafe drivers are ticketed or arrested

 

[independentusa]

Yep. Think about it. My autoimmunity challenge child puts YOUR vaccinated child at risk.. do they not?

So why would you accept that my autoimmunity challenged child. who cannot be vaccinated.. can be allowed in school. While a child not vaccinated because of their parents is not?

What is the difference in risk between a child who is not vaccinated because of their parents.. and one who is not vaccinated because of a solid medical reason?

Please answer that.

If I vaccinate my child, he is not in danger from someone who is immune deficient. My child is immune. But if you put your un-vaccinated child in the class with my child who is immune deficient, your child could kill mine.

 

[_Sal]

You didn't explain the difference between unsafe driving and unvaccinated kids.

I addressed it...the fact that I do not find them to be comparable is why I am not engaging further

Both are threats to society, but it seems only one can be tolerated.

children don't drive cars...driving is privilege not a right etc. etc

they are not comparable on any level

 

[X Factor]

Not in the US

Especially in the US.

 

[vegas giants]

Especially in the US.

You are factually incorrect

 

[WillyPete]

Unsafe drivers are ticketed or arrested

But they are ultimately allowed to go on their way, remain part of society?

Why do you coddle such destructive behavior!?

 

[independentusa]

Best post in the thread.

Except no one is saying that you don't have the right to not vaccinate your child, that is your choice. What we are saying is that all choices have consequences. The choice to not vaccinate is no different from any other choice.

 

[vegas giants]

But they are ultimately allowed to go on their way, remain part of society?

Why do you coddle such destructive behavior!?

Unvaccinated children are allowed to go on their way too

 

[X Factor]

The first of those rights is "life". CHildren who are not vaccinated can take that right, life, away from some children who have immunity deficiencies.

Well since those kids aren’t vaccinated either then they, also, shouldn’t be allowed in public according to your OP.

 

[independentusa]

I addressed it...the fact that I do not find them to be comparable is why I am not engaging further
children don't drive cars...driving is privilege not a right etc. etc

they are not comparable on any level

You are right, driving is not comparable, but if you make the choice to drive too fast and get a ticket, that is a consequence of that decision. And today if you drive to fast, cause an accident and someone is hurt or killed, you face jil time, also a consequence. We can have a right to do things, but we have to live with the consequences of those choices.

 

[independentusa]

Well since those kids aren’t vaccinated either then they, also, shouldn’t be allowed in public according to your OP.

Except those children haven't made a choice, and if all other children are vaccinated they, nor anyone, has a problem with their inablilty to vaccinate.

 

[X Factor]

Except those children haven't made a choice, and if all other children are vaccinated they, nor anyone, has a problem with their inablilty to vaccinate.

I have a problem with it because I believe in equality under the law. Besides, they make a choice to be in public and if they’re in public and currently sick, they pose a health risk to me and my kids, the little ****ers.

 

[Irwin Corey]

At my front door.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

What if they can’t afford private school and aren’t competent to home school? Is primary education a privilege or a right? I thought if it was a right, like voting, there was an obligation to provide it for “free”.

It is a right but there are requirements you have to fulfill before you can exercise that right. Just like you have to register to vote before you can vote. And anyone who has registered their kid in school knows there is a lot of paperwork you have to turn in. Vaccination records are among them.

It is a right for the child. Ensuring your child is educated, however, is a legal obligation for the parents. And the parents have a few options they can choose from to meet that obligation, but only a few.

 

[_Sal]

You are right, driving is not comparable, but if you make the choice to drive too fast and get a ticket, that is a consequence of that decision. And today if you drive to fast, cause an accident and someone is hurt or killed, you face jil time, also a consequence. We can have a right to do things, but we have to live with the consequences of those choices.

yes that is what I said in my other post speeding and not vaccinating are not comparable...driving is a privilege and children don't drive

 

[HowardBThiname]

Except no one is saying that you don't have the right to not vaccinate your child, that is your choice. What we are saying is that all choices have consequences. The choice to not vaccinate is no different from any other choice.

I prefer positive persuasion as opposed to restrictions. After all, the parent of an immune-suppressed child will not logically depend on thinking other children are all immunized to protect her child. That would be unwise.

The best way to handle the immunization thing is to educate parents, but not to restrict their movements (in my opinion).

It's a slippery slope. When parents cannot enroll non-immunized students, how close are we to banning non-vaccinated people from grocery stores or other public places? When flu season comes around, I get a flu shot, but I know many adults who do not. Yet, the flu can kill as many as 45,000 people in a year. Much more dangerous than a few kids not being immunized when we have herd immunity in society.

If I was a parent of a child with weakened immunity, the last thing I'd do would be to take her to public school, the grocery store, the movies, etc., if there was a risk of any sort of outbreak. After all, a common cold could take her down, and there's no vaccine for that. What I wouldn't do is insist that non-immunized children not be allowed to attend because I want my child to be safe. That would be wrong to my mind.

 

[X Factor]

It is a right but there are requirements you have to fulfill before you can exercise that right. Just like you have to register to vote before you can vote. And anyone who has registered their kid in school knows there is a lot of paperwork you have to turn in. Vaccination records are among them.

It is a right for the child. Ensuring your child is educated, however, is a legal obligation for the parents. And the parents have a few options they can choose from to meet that obligation, but only a few.

Should immigrants, both adults and children, also be required to have their shots prior to entry into the US for basically all the same reasons as stated here?

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Should immigrants, both adults and children, also be required to have their shots prior to entry into the US for basically all the same reasons as stated here?

Yes, and in fact it is required.

 

[Helix]

Not even if you are an illegal immigrant?

Thats where most of the outbreaks appear to be coming from.

#ButHispanics

ok, just in case you really don't know, let's read my initial argument for comprehension.

you still have the right to believe unscientific anti-vaxxer woo spewed by people who haven't taken an entry level immunology course. you do not have the right send your unvaccinated kids to the school incubators, putting other kids and all of the rest of us at risk, though.

did part of that seem unclear to you?

 

[Lovebug]

you still have the right to believe unscientific anti-vaxxer woo spewed by people who haven't taken an entry level immunology course. you do not have the right send your unvaccinated kids to the school incubators, putting other kids and all of the rest of us at risk, though.

I wonder if those parents would dare to bring their kids to the Children's Hospital ED department once or twice a week just to see how their theory holds up.

 

[Lovebug]

I prefer positive persuasion as opposed to restrictions. After all, the parent of an immune-suppressed child will not logically depend on thinking other children are all immunized to protect her child. That would be unwise.

The best way to handle the immunization thing is to educate parents, but not to restrict their movements (in my opinion).

It's a slippery slope. When parents cannot enroll non-immunized students, how close are we to banning non-vaccinated people from grocery stores or other public places? When flu season comes around, I get a flu shot, but I know many adults who do not. Yet, the flu can kill as many as 45,000 people in a year. Much more dangerous than a few kids not being immunized when we have herd immunity in society.

If I was a parent of a child with weakened immunity, the last thing I'd do would be to take her to public school, the grocery store, the movies, etc., if there was a risk of any sort of outbreak. After all, a common cold could take her down, and there's no vaccine for that. What I wouldn't do is insist that non-immunized children not be allowed to attend because I want my child to be safe. That would be wrong to my mind.

Avoidable vs unavoidable. We have made progress, lets keep it that way.

 

[Helix]

I wonder if those parents would dare to bring their kids to the Children's Hospital ED department once or twice a week just to see how their theory holds up.

i hope that they don't, and that they don't need to.