When is Electricity Going to be an Issue?

[Cecil900]

Exactly. So why do you and so many others quote it as if it does? Hmm...

Nice...just ignore the rest of that sentence, and my elastic clause point.

 

[Arbo]

Nice...just ignore the rest of that sentence, and my elastic clause point.

There is no need to respond to your attempt to change the topic from your claim that the preamble gives government a power, that it does not actually give government.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

wars in the Middle East

Drill baby Drill and frack it too

 

[Cecil900]

There is no need to respond to your attempt to change the topic from your claim that the preamble gives government a power, that it does not actually give government.

Yeah....because I was changing the topic. K bro.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

don't taze me bro
(with unassailable logic)

 

[Arbo]

Yeah....because I was changing the topic. K bro.

In general, that seems to be what those who are wrong seem to do. You claimed the Preamble as the power for 'general welfare'. I pointed out what a preamble is, and that you are incorrect. You then brought up some other clause and 'republicans'. I realize you may believe nobody is quite as smart as yourself, but the reality is, attempted topic shifts are quite transparent, and pretty pathetic as well.

"oh, yeah? well what about this other thing that those other guys do!" Lame in extreme.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

well the other guys do do it too neener neener

 

[Cecil900]

In general, that seems to be what those who are wrong seem to do. You claimed the Preamble as the power for 'general welfare'. I pointed out what a preamble is, and that you are incorrect. You then brought up some other clause and 'republicans'. I realize you may believe nobody is quite as smart as yourself, but the reality is, attempted topic shifts are quite transparent, and pretty pathetic as well.

"oh, yeah? well what about this other thing that those other guys do!" Lame in extreme.

I pointed out that it gives an outline as to what the purpose of the government should be. The discussion on what the roles of government should be are relevant. Whether it has the power to do so is another argument all together.

I then also cited the elastic clause, which you trivialize my argument by saying that I am only making my point because I said conservatives tend to ignore it, instead of actually giving a counter argument to it. All you did was dodge the argument and focus on a side point or jab I made.

The elastic clause is probably one of the most important clauses in the constitution, and to just through a citation of it aside is a pathetic dodge.

 

[CalGun]

But the enviro's fight every effort to build more power plants? Perhaps if you see how hard that is you'd realize the potential problem.

The solution is not complicated; build more power plants. Meanwhile throughout the electrical appliance and construction sectors, R&D is underway to made the stuff that uses electricity more efficient.

BTW: Tesla Motors is working on developing solar electric generators that they plan to offer with the sale of future electric cars that will be enough to recharge not only the cars they sell but some left over to feed back to the power grid. This will accomplish several things:

1. Provide a fuel source for electric cars that will rarely need to use the power grid.

2. Help defray the cost of the the solar electric system by generating a positive income stream for electric car owners. Under federal law, Americans are allowed to operate electrical generating systems that can be installed by a licensed electric contractor to reverse feed whatever electricity not being used by the owner into the power grid to make their electrical meter run backwards. Initially this simply reduces their bill each month but if enough electricity is produced; more than what they used from the power company, they get a check FROM the power company. So not only will Tesla owners not create any new electrical demand, we can all be thankful to them for generating electricity for the rest of us.

3. This ingenuity is bound to create competitive forces that will compel other car companies not to be outdone and will follow suit. Tesla leads the way in home solar electric production mean GM, Honda, Mazda, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Mitsubishi, etc. will follow suit. Before you know it almost everybody will have a solar electric generator on their garage roof.

 

[UtahBill]

not to sound insulting or using the condescending tone that I've been accused of by many mods so far but....
wait there is no way to address your post without doing so and that makes me a sad panda

hmmm how can I put this in easily understandable nonthreatening terms to a 24 year old woman or a resident of Rio Linda?
never mind big business in cahoots with big government knows what's best for you, turn off the clothes dryer and the coffee pot will come back on
you'll learn to dry the clothes during off-peak hours now won't cha?

In Phoenix, you should be able to dry clothes any time of the day....outdoors...
I live in Peoria, next to Sun City during the winters.

 

[Arbo]

I pointed out that it gives an outline as to what the purpose of the government should be.

When you butted into the conversation with "The constitution does say promote the general welfare" in post 130, the discussion was about another user suggesting that somehow electricity was a 'right'.

I then also cited

Which had nothing to do with the topic. But I see you indeed want to continue down that road in trying to shift the topic. If you want to discuss something else, perhaps you should start a thread about it.

 

[Cecil900]

When you butted into the conversation with "The constitution does say promote the general welfare" in post 130, the discussion was about another user suggesting that somehow electricity was a 'right'.

A discussion of the roles of government is irrelevant to that?

Which had nothing to do with the topic. But I see you indeed want to continue down that road in trying to shift the topic. If you want to discuss something else, perhaps you should start a thread about it.

It kind of has everything to with any discussion of whether the government has power to do something or not.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

When is Electricity Going to be an Issue?
never because electric cars are decades off in the future

 

[UtahBill]

When electricity bills start going up like gasoline bills, then the people will do what they really hate to do...CONSERVE.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

right after Obama makes good on his promise to destroy the coal industry?

 

[Smeagol]

Drill baby Drill and frack it too

I'm not saying we shouldn't but that policy does not defund terrorism. All it does is helps perpetuate the global monopoly on petroleum, something the Middle East, the dictators and terrorists depends on.

I agree domestic drilling would have an affect on gas prices to some extent but oil is sold on the global market as there is no such thing as our own oil. Because of the way oil is sold, any price affect domestic drilling would have in America would have a similar affect on gas in China. In fact "our own oil" could end up being sold in China while Saudi oil is being shipped to US refineries, it just depends on what's the cheapest on the day the refineries need to refill with crude oil. The greatest affect that policy could possibly have is to force the oil rich middle east into unsettling alliances with China and Russia instead of us. The only thing that will end once and for all our entanglement in the Middle East, their funding to support mass-homicidal dictatorships and terrorism is to roll out a new technology domestically and worldwide that does not need their only natural resource, oil. We have the potential to do it now with car companies like Tesla where some of the brightest minds in America working feverishly to make electric cars and eventually trucks and SUVs better than anything the 160 year old internal combustion engine technology could offer. I personally consider it a selfless act of patriotism to stand with those guys in defending America.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

If Tesla Would Stop Selling Cars, We'd All Save Some Money

 

[Smeagol]

But the enviro's fight every effort to build more power plants? Perhaps if you see how hard that is you'd realize the potential problem.

I would hope they'd chance their tune the first day of a blackout on a 95 degree summer day. We need more power plants, especially as electric cars grow in popularity.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

If those evil capitalists ever tire of giving us electricity and gasoline I don't know what we will do

 

[CalGun]

That is exactly my point, and we should be taxing electric cars to help pay for them so the elderly on a 95 degree summer day aren't paying extra for power so rich people can drive around in subsidized electric cars.

I would hope they'd chance their tune the first day of a blackout on a 95 degree summer day. We need more power plants, especially as electric cars grow in popularity.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

If it Moves, Tax it. If it Keeps Moving, Regulate it. And if it Stops Moving, Subsidize it.
Green energy is bass-ackwards it is starting out being subsidized. It will never even get out of the gate.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

If a government has to pay you to take a product you don't want
what's to stop them from mandating that you buy it?

 

[Smeagol]

That is exactly my point, and we should be taxing electric cars to help pay for them so the elderly on a 95 degree summer day aren't paying extra for power so rich people can drive around in subsidized electric cars.

I see this as way bigger than a class warfare conflict but a national security investment. Yes, they cost a little more right now but that's only because ALL new technology products follow the Silicon Valley Business Model where the first one out are costly (cell phones, PCs, HDTVs, etc) but BECAUSE somebody was willing to pay more in the initial phases up front, it eventually got cheap enough for anybody to afford. The "rich people" are actually doing us a service just like they did with $15,000 flat screen TVs nobody else could afford. Because they're taking the up front financial hit, in time the rest of us will also be able to afford it. Meanwhile we're taking steps today away from reliance on the turmoil of the Mideast and madmen who we indirectly fund who have targeted us for jihad.

 

[Org]

I imagine that the fossil fuels that weren't burned in indivudual engines would be burned to generate the electricity to power those engines, at least until we figured out something else.

That's the problem of how we're going forward with this. Car companies are developing these things to appeal to the greenies, while fossil fuels are still too marketable for the existing market to develop renewables (which need to power EVs, if they're going to be worthwhile) at any decent pace.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

Clearly the solution is to outlaw fossil fuels.