Wrong reference. I know Major Dorrie Carscaden, she definitely resisted as did others.
OK, two died trying to actively resist and one other was wounded trying to stop (slow?) the Fort Hood shooter, the balance of your 52 "heroes" were not mentioned at all. The point I am making is that a theater full of kids is not exactly the most likely place to find armed, trained resistance or to contain those able to physically over power an attacker, there is also NO loose furniture to toss, as was tried (but failed) at the Fort Hood shooting. Choosing to resist an armed attacker, WITHOUT being armed, is unlikely to stop the killing, but very likely to add yourself to the victim count while distracting the shooter for a few seconds. The 5 to 10 second interruption in target acquisition may have saved some potential victims, yet that is mostly speculation. What DID work, at Fort Hood, was armed resistance. The Fort Hood shooter has yet to stand trial, and is likely still getting military pay.
It was a crowded movie theatre, presumably somewhat dark inside, with a large armored lunatic shooting people at random . . .
The idea of most people not putting up a resistance has little to do with culture; it's more so about biology. It's called the fight-or-flight response, and in sudden and chaotic situations like this one, most people aren't going to just get up and heroically confront a dangerous person; rather the natural instinct for preservation of life/fear of death will either get them running, or they'll be too paralyzed with fear and/or confusion to move away or know exactly what to do.
Expecting people to just attack a fully armed murderer is nothing less of glorifying senseless bravado that will 9 times out of 10 result in people getting injured or killed.
This is nonsense. Attacking fully armed murderers is 9/10 just straight up stupid when you have a chance to get yourself out of the situation. Your advocating people do something unnecessary, that will threaten their survival in order to "keep the good guys alive" which doesn't make any sense. If you want to run up to some psycho with a gun in a movie theater when you have the chance to get out, have fun with that, but leave me out of it and preferably everybody else as well.No, it isn't senseless or bravado. It's an instinct which we have largely ignored to our detriment. I realize it's natural to panic and be afraid when things like this happen, but the instinct to fight needs to be reinstilled in us. It's what keeps the good guys alive, and makes the bad guys dead. Criminals and the insane thrive on the fears of the masses. The only way to combat it, is to get the fears under control, and stop automatically reacting by running.
It's like when I learned to scuba dive, which is a totally foreign activity for humans. The instinct is to panic and stay on top of the water, where you feel safe and comfortable. I had to learn to overcome my instincts and my fears, in order to master it.
This morning a theatre full of people were terrorized and massacred by a lone gunman. Initial reports seem to indicate that the gunman picked and chose his targets. That means he bypassed others. People who could have resisted.
On September 11, 2001 a group of American Heroes fought to take back a hijacked plane. For months afterwards the words "Let's Roll!" became a rallying cry for Americans. In fact it has led several sets of passengers to react to issues on planes over the last decade.
When is this mentality going to move beyond the unfriendly skies? When are we as American citizens going to stop cowering behind chairs and start FIGHTING BACK!!!!
This morning a theatre full of people were terrorized and massacred by a lone gunman. Initial reports seem to indicate that the gunman picked and chose his targets. That means he bypassed others. People who could have resisted.
On September 11, 2001 a group of American Heroes fought to take back a hijacked plane. For months afterwards the words "Let's Roll!" became a rallying cry for Americans. In fact it has led several sets of passengers to react to issues on planes over the last decade.
When is this mentality going to move beyond the unfriendly skies? When are we as American citizens going to stop cowering behind chairs and start FIGHTING BACK!!!!
This is nonsense. Attacking fully armed murderers is 9/10 just straight up stupid when you have a chance to get yourself out of the situation. Your advocating people do something unnecessary, that will threaten their survival in order to "keep the good guys alive" which doesn't make any sense. If you want to run up to some psycho with a gun in a movie theater when you have the chance to get out, have fun with that, but leave me out of it and preferably everybody else as well.
Edify me on why this post is based on an appeals to authority instead of an actual argument. I'm seeing a lot of wasting of my time from everything you've written.edify me on your training in this issue. I am seeing a lot of uneducated nonsense from you
Oh man. It's just TOO bad he didn't kill two guys when it wasn't necessary. What is the world coming too?some old guy shot two mopes the other day. the only bad thing-he missed the head shots he tried
Edify me on why this post is based on an appeals to authority instead of an actual argument. I'm seeing a lot of wasting of my time from everything you've written.
Oh man. It's just TOO bad he didn't kill two guys when it wasn't necessary. What is the world coming too?
This morning a theatre full of people were terrorized and massacred by a lone gunman. Initial reports seem to indicate that the gunman picked and chose his targets. That means he bypassed others. People who could have resisted.
On September 11, 2001 a group of American Heroes fought to take back a hijacked plane. For months afterwards the words "Let's Roll!" became a rallying cry for Americans. In fact it has led several sets of passengers to react to issues on planes over the last decade.
When is this mentality going to move beyond the unfriendly skies? When are we as American citizens going to stop cowering behind chairs and start FIGHTING BACK!!!!
This morning a theatre full of people were terrorized and massacred by a lone gunman. Initial reports seem to indicate that the gunman picked and chose his targets. That means he bypassed others. People who could have resisted.
On September 11, 2001 a group of American Heroes fought to take back a hijacked plane. For months afterwards the words "Let's Roll!" became a rallying cry for Americans. In fact it has led several sets of passengers to react to issues on planes over the last decade.
When is this mentality going to move beyond the unfriendly skies? When are we as American citizens going to stop cowering behind chairs and start FIGHTING BACK!!!!
There are precious few things I'm willing to risk my life for. Running unarmed up against a heavily armed gunman who is wearing body, groin, and throat armor all while being concealed by a smokescreen in the middle of a crowded, panicked theater all for a very very small chance of success is not one of those things.
The September 11th flight was completely different. They had time to fully gather the situation, work together, and literally had no other choice but to fight as there is no escape route on an airplane.
Exactly.
Which is why you arm yourself.
I wondered why nobody rushed him in a fit of anger to stop the killing but then I saw his size 6'3". Most people would do a quick assessment and realize if they don't completely subdue him he'll probably kill them next, while if they continue ducking and dodging they might have a better chance of survival.
While I agree with you, I understand how things like this happen. People are just shocked into survival mode. Get away. Get out. Flee. Pandemonium breeds more pandemonium. The hysteria feeds on itself. Courage to get involved -- as well as the instinct not to get involved is reinforced by those around us.
Thunder, I would say it like so- it is very easy for those who never had to stand in front of an armed enemy, nor undergone the level of training required to have half a chance in hell of surviving to sit in a comfy chair and castigate others. you were too mild...
Lets examine some of the favorite horses those who puff their chests up at times like this enjoy dragging into discussions like this.
The old man and the punks-
There is a difference between waiting until the two ROBBERS turned away and then start shooting vs face to face with a mass MURDERER who has already decided he doesn't want your wallet. The robbers were two coyotes, opportunistic feeders, not looking for a gunfight. The mass murderer was a leopard lying in wait to make a lightening quick strike and was facing and killing from the git go....
Huge difference that the ill-informed always overlook.
Flight 92 vs react to ambush-
The folks on Flt92 did fight back, and they truly were heroic, after a delay where they learned what had happened to the other flights in NYC, had the opportunity to gather, discuss and ramp up there courage. Something a GI on a narrow jungle trail or the people in the theater are without. No chance to huddle and call friends out of danger and watching breaking news. No chance to huddle and come up with a plan of attack. No chance to give each other strength and unity.
If the patrol is EXTREMELY lucky the point man hears a metallic clack of an AK coming off safe or a the soft creak of webgear and without ANY thought he spins and sprays, the others either spray or toss frags depending on their stick number. This react is drilled for hours, each man in each different position, FYI the 'tail gunner' react is to run like the Devil himself is in hot pursuit away from the ambush on the faint hope he will make it back to a friendly unit.
Point is the couch commandos are clueless about what sudden, violent, deadly force does to even the semi-trained among us. think Ft. Hood. One thing to shoot at the backs of punk robbers, to face (after some time to hold a group conference) a choice between certain death and certain death vs hearing that metallic clack at night in a jungle or the first shot while far away from any war zone...
I don't mean to demean the CCW crowd, carry legally and enjoy your 2nd A right to carry, just realize the odds of using your carry weapon are greater than being attacked by an Australian Great White shark-
in Utah...
And those who think they would rush, unarmed, to the sound of the cannon are deluding themselves.
I've done in it real life bud. More than once, and I always move to "the sound of the guns" by instinct. My LT found that out the hard way one night when he tried to sneak up on me at my post... fortunately he lived. Maybe I was born with my fight-or-flight needle stuck on 'fight', but I've never understood people who freeze and cower and die like sheep. I feel sorry for them, but I don't understand them. They completely baffle me.
Of course, but Tigger was complaining about one of these people fighting back when the gunman appeared, and in this case as far as I know none of them were armed, probably because most of them were teenagers and because the movie theater is supposed to be a gun-free area. If I were in the same place as the moviegoers I would've done the same thing they did.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?