When Big Business Rolled Over For Fascism, And Cashed In

[skews13.]

From left: Former Nazi diplomat Franz von Papen, financier Hjalmar Schacht and propaganda chief Hans Fritsche after their acquittal on war crimes charges in Nuremberg, Oct. 4, 1946. (Bettmann/Getty Images)


Throughout the 1920s, most of Germany's wealthy industrialists preferred to support explicitly business-friendly conservative parties, who offered a less overtly destabilizing vision for the nation's future.

At first, most wealthy Nazi supporters were a mixed bag of aimless socialites, heirs and heiresses who wanted to feel special (in this case, racially and culturally special; see Nordic Circle) and those who held antisemitic beliefs or were attracted to Hitler's call for national revanchism and perhaps to Hitler himself.

But as the Weimar Republic's economy collapsed, so did the ruling coalition led by the center-left Social Democratic Party. Popular discontent emboldened both the Nazis and the Communists, and increasingly, industrial and banking leaders came to see Hitler as the weapon they could wield to crush the radical left.

Hitler outlined plans to purge the government of leftists and eliminate trade unions, arguing that the moneyed assemblage's economic interests were best served by assertive militarism and the outright destruction of Germany's parliamentary system. "Private enterprise cannot be maintained in the age of democracy," he declared.

When big business rolled over for fascism — and cashed in

The aspiring dictator promised to crush the left and deliver big profits — so the capitalist class went all-in

www.salon.com

Sound familiar?

Fun Facts: The company I. G. Farben went on to become the Bayer Corporation. Most American corporations supported all of it.

 

[bongsaway]

There is at least one documentary about how the elites, the capitalist barons actually dreamed up a plot to try to not remove Roosevelt from power but to let's say nueter him and leave his powerless in the oval office as they ran the country from behind the scenes. They didn't like his social programs, it took away from their profits. So, nothing new from the people with obscene amounts of money, they are still doing their best to use their money to influence American politics. Can you say Elon musk?

And republicans who think the GOP cares about you, you have been duped for so long you think your kind of government is good.

 

[bongsaway]

View attachment 67564080
From left: Former Nazi diplomat Franz von Papen, financier Hjalmar Schacht and propaganda chief Hans Fritsche after their acquittal on war crimes charges in Nuremberg, Oct. 4, 1946. (Bettmann/Getty Images)


Throughout the 1920s, most of Germany's wealthy industrialists preferred to support explicitly business-friendly conservative parties, who offered a less overtly destabilizing vision for the nation's future.

At first, most wealthy Nazi supporters were a mixed bag of aimless socialites, heirs and heiresses who wanted to feel special (in this case, racially and culturally special; see Nordic Circle) and those who held antisemitic beliefs or were attracted to Hitler's call for national revanchism and perhaps to Hitler himself.

But as the Weimar Republic's economy collapsed, so did the ruling coalition led by the center-left Social Democratic Party. Popular discontent emboldened both the Nazis and the Communists, and increasingly, industrial and banking leaders came to see Hitler as the weapon they could wield to crush the radical left.

Hitler outlined plans to purge the government of leftists and eliminate trade unions, arguing that the moneyed assemblage's economic interests were best served by assertive militarism and the outright destruction of Germany's parliamentary system. "Private enterprise cannot be maintained in the age of democracy," he declared.

When big business rolled over for fascism — and cashed in

The aspiring dictator promised to crush the left and deliver big profits — so the capitalist class went all-in

www.salon.com

Sound familiar?

Fun Facts: The company I. G. Farben went on to become the Bayer Corporation. Most American corporations supported all of it.

My honey's father was in the area when a bombing of farben was taking place. He said the thing that amazed him was how many bombs were dropped and farben still stood. A Jew fighting for america in europe. He lived long enough to see trump's first term and he despised him.

 

[aociswundumho]

But as the Weimar Republic's economy collapsed, so did the ruling coalition led by the center-left Social Democratic Party. Popular discontent emboldened both the Nazis and the Communists, and increasingly, industrial and banking leaders came to see Hitler as the weapon they could wield to crush the radical left.

No, they saw Nazism as an alternative to the left. Everyone saw how leftists destroyed the Russian economy, so they took a chance on Hitler's version of socialism.

Hitler outlined plans to purge the government of leftists and eliminate trade unions,

He nationalized the unions, he didn't eliminated them. You can't have independent unions in a socialist state. Unions in both Nazi Germany and Communist Russia became arms of the state.

 

[Tigerace117]

No, they saw Nazism as an alternative to the left. Everyone saw how leftists destroyed the Russian economy, so they took a chance on Hitler's version of socialism.



He nationalized the unions, he didn't eliminated them. You can't have independent unions in a socialist state. Unions in both Nazi Germany and Communist Russia became arms of the state.

Nazi Germany wasn’t a “socialist state”.

They saw the Nazis as valuable allies in crushing the German left, yes.

 

[aociswundumho]

Nazi Germany wasn’t a “socialist state”.

If the Nazi government controlled the German economy, then it was a socialist state.

Look at what the Nazis accomplished. They built one of the most formidable war machines on the planet, and they built the autobahn, massive rail expansion, along with a huge amount of other infrastructure projects.

They did all of this in just six years. No one can deny that to accomplish that much in such a short of a time span would require total control over the means of production. So yes, Nazi Germany was a socialist state.

edit: Oh, and Hitler started with an economy that was in shambles.

 

[Tigerace117]

If the Nazi government controlled the German economy, then it was a socialist state.

Look at what the Nazis accomplished. They built one of the most formidable war machines on the planet, and they built the autobahn, massive rail expansion, along with a huge amount of other infrastructure projects.

They did all of this in just six years. No one can deny that to accomplish that much in such a short of a time span would require total control over the means of production. So yes, Nazi Germany was a socialist state.

edit: Oh, and Hitler started with an economy that was in shambles.

Rapid remilitarization and infrastructure projects do not, in fact, make a country “socialist”. No “socialist” state would put a bunch of noblemen in charge of the military, for that matter.

 

[aociswundumho]

Rapid remilitarization and infrastructure projects do not, in fact, make a country “socialist”.

Yes, but the degree to which the Nazi government controlled the German economy does make the country socialist. For just one example, here is a primary source:

Most cruel joke of all, however, has been played by Hitler & Co. on those German capitalists and small businessmen who once backed National Socialism as a means of saving Germany’s bourgeois economic structure from radicalism. The Nazi credo that the individual belongs to the state also applies to business. Some businesses have been confiscated outright, on others what amounts to a capital tax has been levied. Profits have been strictly controlled. Some idea of the increasing Governmental control and interference in business could be deduced from the fact that 80% of all building and 50% of all industrial orders in Germany originated last year with the Government. Hard-pressed for foodstuffs as well as funds, the Nazi regime has taken over large estates and in many instances collectivized agriculture, a procedure fundamentally similar to Russian Communism.

While Russia had five year plans:

Five-year plans of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Germany had four year plans:

Four Year Plan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's the same butcher wearing a different apron.

 

[skews13.]

There is at least one documentary about how the elites, the capitalist barons actually dreamed up a plot to try to not remove Roosevelt from power but to let's say nueter him and leave his powerless in the oval office as they ran the country from behind the scenes. They didn't like his social programs, it took away from their profits. So, nothing new from the people with obscene amounts of money, they are still doing their best to use their money to influence American politics. Can you say Elon musk?

And republicans who think the GOP cares about you, you have been duped for so long you think your kind of government is good.

The biggest injustice at Nuremburg, was none of those financiers, or corporations had their assets seized.

We seem to be really big on every type of punishment that can be dished out, for every type of crime imaginable, except for taking rich peoples money away from them.

For some reason, this seems to be a bridge to far. I. G. Farben actually provided the slave labor and chemicals for Aushswitz, but they get to keep their corporation, move to the US, and sell aspirin.

To me that makes the US government complicit in the Holocaust.

 

[Tigerace117]

Yes, but the degree to which the Nazi government controlled the German economy does make the country socialist. For just one example, here is a primary source:



While Russia had five year plans:

Five-year plans of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Germany had four year plans:

Four Year Plan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's the same butcher wearing a different apron.

Nope, as shown by the fact that the Nazis actively allied with Germany’s nobility and industrialists, first in crushing Germany’s leftists, and then in waging a genocidal war of conquest against the USSR.

The reality is that no socialist state would ever put a bunch of noblemen in control of the army.

 

[aociswundumho]

Nope, as shown by the fact that the Nazis actively allied with Germany’s nobility and industrialists,

The Nazis also allied with the USSR, so I guess that counts as evidence for my side. In the early years of the war, it was the USSR that gave the Nazis everything they needed regarding food, oil, steel, rubber, and lots more.

Hitler had big plans and needed to get a lot of shit done quickly. Marxists typically murder the industrialists, and then run the company into the ground. Hitler was smarter than that. Instead he controlled the industrialists, while letting them continue to run their companies. But Hitler also had total and complete control of all raw materials and all labor. The industrialists also saw what the Nazis did to Hugo Junkers in 1933. Disobeying the Reich was high treason, and the Nazis had complete control of the courts.

No one can argue that there were secure property rights in Nazi Germany. So what ideology is consistent with no property rights?

 

[Tigerace117]

The Nazis also allied with the USSR, so I guess that counts as evidence for my side. In the early years of the war, it was the USSR that gave the Nazis everything they needed regarding food, oil, steel, rubber, and lots more.

Hitler had big plans and needed to get a lot of shit done quickly. Marxists typically murder the industrialists, and then run the company into the ground. Hitler was smarter than that. Instead he controlled the industrialists, while letting them continue to run their companies. But Hitler also had total and complete control of all raw materials and all labor. The industrialists also saw what the Nazis did to Hugo Junkers in 1933. Disobeying the Reich was high treason, and the Nazis had complete control of the courts.

No one can argue that there were secure property rights in Nazi Germany. So what ideology is consistent with no property rights?

The industrialists were happy to work with the far right in murdering as many “Marxists” as they could, as their alliance with Hitler and his thugs, who were anything but “Marxist” shows.

In every single actual “Marxist” nation said industrialists actively resisted the fall of the old regime. They didn’t in Germany because, obviously, the Nazis weren’t even remotely Marxist.

Gee, given the deep libertarian admiration for the Confederacy and its fight to defend slavery, the cries about “property rights” don’t really hold up

 

[aociswundumho]

They didn’t in Germany because, obviously, the Nazis weren’t even remotely Marxist.

I agree, but Marxism isn't the only kind of socialism.

 

[j brown's body]

If the Nazi government controlled the German economy, then it was a socialist state.

Look at what the Nazis accomplished. They built one of the most formidable war machines on the planet, and they built the autobahn, massive rail expansion, along with a huge amount of other infrastructure projects.

They did all of this in just six years. No one can deny that to accomplish that much in such a short of a time span would require total control over the means of production. So yes, Nazi Germany was a socialist state.

edit: Oh, and Hitler started with an economy that was in shambles.

In Tony Judt's classic book, Postwar, about Europe after WWII, he describes how the conservative parties were discredited because they had been allied with the Nazis while liberals and socialists were clean, and thus, they were most likely to run post-war governments.

 

[StillBallin75]

Corporations and the Democratic Party share the same spinal makeup.

 

[StillBallin75]

If the Nazi government controlled the German economy, then it was a socialist state.

Look at what the Nazis accomplished. They built one of the most formidable war machines on the planet, and they built the autobahn, massive rail expansion, along with a huge amount of other infrastructure projects.

They did all of this in just six years. No one can deny that to accomplish that much in such a short of a time span would require total control over the means of production. So yes, Nazi Germany was a socialist state.

edit: Oh, and Hitler started with an economy that was in shambles.

The "socialist state" that jailed, imprisoned and gassed actual socialists and Communists along with the Jews lmao OK.

"First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist"

 

[Athanasius68]

View attachment 67564080
From left: Former Nazi diplomat Franz von Papen, financier Hjalmar Schacht and propaganda chief Hans Fritsche after their acquittal on war crimes charges in Nuremberg, Oct. 4, 1946. (Bettmann/Getty Images)


Throughout the 1920s, most of Germany's wealthy industrialists preferred to support explicitly business-friendly conservative parties, who offered a less overtly destabilizing vision for the nation's future.

At first, most wealthy Nazi supporters were a mixed bag of aimless socialites, heirs and heiresses who wanted to feel special (in this case, racially and culturally special; see Nordic Circle) and those who held antisemitic beliefs or were attracted to Hitler's call for national revanchism and perhaps to Hitler himself.

But as the Weimar Republic's economy collapsed, so did the ruling coalition led by the center-left Social Democratic Party. Popular discontent emboldened both the Nazis and the Communists, and increasingly, industrial and banking leaders came to see Hitler as the weapon they could wield to crush the radical left.

Hitler outlined plans to purge the government of leftists and eliminate trade unions, arguing that the moneyed assemblage's economic interests were best served by assertive militarism and the outright destruction of Germany's parliamentary system. "Private enterprise cannot be maintained in the age of democracy," he declared.

When big business rolled over for fascism — and cashed in

The aspiring dictator promised to crush the left and deliver big profits — so the capitalist class went all-in

www.salon.com

Sound familiar?

Fun Facts: The company I. G. Farben went on to become the Bayer Corporation. Most American corporations supported all of it.

The choice was to be either murdered or dispossessed by the Communists, or to be slaves to the National Socialists,
By the early 30s, 'big business' had no other option.

 

[Athanasius68]

In Tony Judt's classic book, Postwar, about Europe after WWII, he describes how the conservative parties were discredited because they had been allied with the Nazis while liberals and socialists were clean, and thus, they were most likely to run post-war governments.

The socialists and communists climbed out, alive, from the prison camps.
The 'conservatives" had long since been murdered.

 

[Athanasius68]

The "socialist state" that jailed, imprisoned and gassed actual socialists and Communists along with the Jews lmao OK.

Shrug. The Communists did the same...

 

[Athanasius68]

Nope, as shown by the fact that the Nazis actively allied with Germany’s nobility and industrialists, first in crushing Germany’s leftists, and then in waging a genocidal war of conquest against the USSR.

The reality is that no socialist state would ever put a bunch of noblemen in control of the army.

And Hitler despised all those old 'noble' Germans.
He hated the professional military.

But-- purges as the Communists made no sense.

 

[Tigerace117]

And Hitler despised all those old 'noble' Germans.
He hated the professional military.

But-- purges as the Communists made no sense.

The German General Staff was totally onboard with the Nazis until they started losing. Even the anti Nazi officers wanted to keep most of Poland and continue the war in the East.

 

[Yes_Minister]

No, they saw Nazism as an alternative to the left. Everyone saw how leftists destroyed the Russian economy, so they took a chance on Hitler's version of socialism.

And were they right when they bet on Hitler as the "lesser of two evils"? Were they morally correct when they funded the Nazi party in your opinion?

He nationalized the unions, he didn't eliminated them. You can't have independent unions in a socialist state. Unions in both Nazi Germany and Communist Russia became arms of the state.

So does I.G Farben bear no moral responsibility for it's role in the Holocaust?

 

[Athanasius68]

The German General Staff was totally onboard with the Nazis until they started losing. Even the anti Nazi officers wanted to keep most of Poland and continue the war in the East.

The relationship between the nazis and the professional armed services was one of mutual hated.
The plotting of Staufenberg was simply the last of many.

 

[Tigerace117]

The relationship between the nazis and the professional armed services was one of mutual hated.
The plotting of Staufenberg was simply the last of many.

Not really. The German General Staff was largely willing to go along with the Nazis as long as Germany was winning, and they fervently agreed with Nazi racial ideology, especially in the East, where the Einsatzgruppen were surprised at the level of enthusiastic cooperation they received.

 

[aociswundumho]

And were they right when they bet on Hitler as the "lesser of two evils"? Were they morally correct when they funded the Nazi party in your opinion?

In the end it didn't matter, because Hitler's version of socialism turned out like they all do.

So does I.G Farben bear no moral responsibility for it's role in the Holocaust?

Of course they bear responsibility, and imo, they got off way too easy.

IG Farben Trial - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org