When Big Business Rolled Over For Fascism, And Cashed In

[Luce]

If the Nazi government controlled the German economy, then it was a socialist state.

This is honestly the dumbest shit I've heard all day, and I've been listening to MAGAs trying to make excuses for the collapse.

 

[Yes_Minister]

The socialists and communists climbed out, alive, from the prison camps.
The 'conservatives" had long since been murdered.

Except conservatives helped Hitler into power in the first place:

The role of the conservative elite in the Nazi rise to power – The Holocaust Explained: Designed for schools

www.theholocaustexplained.org

 

[Yes_Minister]

In the end it didn't matter, because Hitler's version of socialism turned out like they all do.

So do those businessmen bare any responsibility for bank rolling the Nazis in the first place?

Of course they bear responsibility, and imo, they got off way too easy.

IG Farben Trial - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why did they get off Scott free?

 

[aociswundumho]

So do those businessmen bare any responsibility for bank rolling the Nazis in the first place?

I think so.

Why did they get off Scott free?

They didn't. I said they got off easy.

 

[Yes_Minister]

I think so.



They didn't. I said they got off easy.

Why did they get off easy?

 

[Slartibartfast]

We are in the phase of merging state and corporate interest of fascism.

 

[aociswundumho]

Why did they get off easy?

Short answer is because they were rich. All government-run (and government-created) courts are heavily biased towards the wealthy.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Short answer is because they were rich. All government-run (and government-created) courts are heavily biased towards the wealthy.

Huh uh. So without the government, what prevents the wealthy from abusing people directly?

 

[aociswundumho]

Huh uh. So without the government, what prevents the wealthy from abusing people directly?

Oh wait, so now the government is our savior? The same government where lobbying and logrolling are practiced right out in the open?

But I'm curious as to what sort of "abuse" you are referring to. Specific examples would be nice.

 

[AZRWinger]

Nazi Germany wasn’t a “socialist state”.

They saw the Nazis as valuable allies in crushing the German left, yes.

The National Socialist Workers Party wasn't practicing national socialism? Absurd.

 

[Slartibartfast]

The National Socialist Workers Party wasn't practicing national socialism? Absurd.

They co-opted the German socialist movement, eventually driving out or killing the socialists, and instituted fascism.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Oh wait, so now the government is our savior? The same government where lobbying and logrolling are practiced right out in the open?

But I'm curious as to what sort of "abuse" you are referring to. Specific examples would be nice.

I post the same list of examples of corporations directly abusing people and you almost always calm up afterwards. You are likely the easiest person on this site to deal with.

I can post the same list again, for the 7th time, but what's the point? It's become boring. You can never address those examples. Every time I bring up the East India company or the business plot from the 1930s, you can't deal.

Here is the same old list, are you going to ignore it as usual?

There is effectively no 'far left' in the US

Trump is not a classic liberal, nor did he ever claim to be. He's a former Democrat, ffs. Here he is advocating for gun confiscation without due process: So do social conservatives count as right wingers or not? Because that is who he is pandering to. Just saying he is a former Democrat or...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Slartibartfast]

I post the same list of examples of corporations directly abusing people and you almost always calm up afterwards. You are likely the easiest person on this site to deal with.

I can post the same list again, for the 7th time, but what's the point? It's become boring. You can never address those examples. Every time I bring up the East India company or the business plot from the 1930s, you can't deal.

I am personally curious about your lists

 

[Yes_Minister]

I am personally curious about your lists

Sure, here it is:

There is effectively no 'far left' in the US

Trump is not a classic liberal, nor did he ever claim to be. He's a former Democrat, ffs. Here he is advocating for gun confiscation without due process: So do social conservatives count as right wingers or not? Because that is who he is pandering to. Just saying he is a former Democrat or...

debatepolitics.com

 

[Tigerace117]

The National Socialist Workers Party wasn't practicing national socialism? Absurd.

Do you also think the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea practices democracy?

It’s indeed absurd that American conservatives can’t face up to the fact that a regime which actively led a “crusade against Bolshevism”, recruited religious fanatics, monarchists, aristocrats and military dictatorships to their side, and murdered every socialist they could catch wasn’t “left wing”

 

[craig]

No, they saw Nazism as an alternative to the left. Everyone saw how leftists destroyed the Russian economy, so they took a chance on Hitler's version of socialism.



He nationalized the unions, he didn't eliminated them. You can't have independent unions in a socialist state. Unions in both Nazi Germany and Communist Russia became arms of the state.

The left was not communist. They just wanted a decent life for the working class and education for their children

 

[aociswundumho]

I post the same list of examples of corporations directly abusing people and you almost always calm up afterwards. You are likely the easiest person on this site to deal with.

I can post the same list again, for the 7th time, but what's the point? It's become boring. You can never address those examples. Every time I bring up the East India company or the business plot from the 1930s, you can't deal.

Here is the same old list, are you going to ignore it as usual?

There is effectively no 'far left' in the US

Trump is not a classic liberal, nor did he ever claim to be. He's a former Democrat, ffs. Here he is advocating for gun confiscation without due process: So do social conservatives count as right wingers or not? Because that is who he is pandering to. Just saying he is a former Democrat or...

debatepolitics.com

Because you are talking about extremely rare situations. The average American family spends about 75K per year buying stuff from the private sector. Thousands of transactions. Where's the "abuse"?

 

[aociswundumho]

Do you also think the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea practices democracy?

Were the Nazi's nationalists?

Prior to changing their name it was the german worker's party, which sounds socialist to me and everyone else.

 

[Tigerace117]

Were the Nazi's nationalists?

Prior to changing their name it was the german worker's party, which sounds socialist to me and everyone else.

The Nazis were fervently nationalist, and saw socialism as a “foreign plot”.

Americans think everyone to the left of Franco is a “commie”, which renders that meaningless. Americans thought opposing Jim Crow was “communist”.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Because you are talking about extremely rare situations. The average American family spends about 75K per year buying stuff from the private sector. Thousands of transactions. Where's the "abuse"?

Extremely rare? Did you see the list? It's not short, and your answer each time seems to be "Ah, whatever". If I find more examples, does that change the answer? If the list is twice as long, does that matter to you? Of course not. How many will corporations prioritize human rights over making a buck?

Didn't Cattle slavery benefit private business ownership? How big was the East India Company's body count? Your ideology only works if we ignore every time a corporation directly abused people, and you will always ignore those examples, because you have no actual answer for them.

 

[aociswundumho]

Extremely rare?

Again, if you are average then your household spent about 75k doing business in the private sector over the last year. Explain all of the abuse you have suffered.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Again, if you are average then your household spent about 75k doing business in the private sector over the last year. Explain all of the abuse you have suffered.

We are talking about major corporations, not someone doing 75k a year in business. How many major corporations have a good human rights record? Should defense contractors exist in your opinion if they make their money selling weapons to the government? What about private prisons? Your ideology fails every time it is applied to a major corporation, which will always prioritize making more money over human rights.

 

[aociswundumho]

We are talking about major corporations, not someone doing 75k a year in business.

So you have suffered no abuse. Guess what, neither has anyone else. Yes it does happen, but it's rare. Unlike in government, where it's common.

How many major corporations have a good human rights record?

I don't know.

Should defense contractors exist in your opinion if they make their money selling weapons to the government?

No.

What about private prisons?

No. They are also contractors.

Your ideology fails every time it is applied to a major corporation, which will always prioritize making more money over human rights.

You're not talking about human rights, you are talking about working conditions.

 

[Yes_Minister]

So you have suffered no abuse. Guess what, neither has anyone else. Yes it does happen, but it's rare. Unlike in government, where it's common.

So do you think it's okay for corporations to abuse people in the developing world? Also, was corporate abuse in the Gilded Age fine in your books?

How are we defining rare in this scenario?

I don't know.

Shouldn't you know that if you are saying corporations are superior to governments?

No.

So wouldn't their business model oppose your ideology? Why would they want small government? How many big corporations actually care about this stuff? What do corporations care about your ideology or making money at all costs?

No. They are also contractors.



You're not talking about human rights, you are talking about working conditions.

Those things often overlap. Shouldn't it be a human right not to have a workplace that is so unsafe it is lethal? Or were things like Radium Girls fine in your books?

 

[aociswundumho]

So do you think it's okay for corporations to abuse people in the developing world?

You mean offer people jobs?

Also, was corporate abuse in the Gilded Age fine in your books?

The choice at the time for most was working for wages or subsistence farming. Working in the factory was better, even with the bad conditions.

Shouldn't you know that if you are saying corporations are superior to governments?

I have never said that because it's incoherent. Furthermore, corporations are products of the state. The exist in order to protect rich people from liability. They would not exist in a free market.

So wouldn't their business model oppose your ideology? Why would they want small government?

They don't want small government, they want big government because only big government can spend 100s of billions on weapons and prisons.

Those things often overlap.

No, they don't overlap. You may quit your job any moment you choose to. If you don't like the pay or the conditions, then quit. Nobody owes you anything.

Shouldn't it be a human right not to have a workplace that is so unsafe it is lethal?

No. Quit if you don't like the job.

Or were things like Radium Girls fine in your books?

Of course not, but that was clear, criminal behavior, and the government-run court let them get away with it.