What's your attitude toward Islam ?

[MSgt]

One only has to look at the last 50 years to be disgusted at the behavior of Islam in the Middle East.

Israel is constantly witnessing it's civillians being murdered by Muslim Palestinians. It's only after they retaliate that the Middle East Muslim points out the aggression.

Egypt should be a role model to the rest of the Middle East with regards to ending the centuries of stupid aggression in that "holy" land.

Vietnam was lost to our own selfish people who rallied in the streets and spit on our soldiers. The politicians and civillian public controlled the day to day business of that war. And it wasn't so much as a protest, but a movement of hippies.

Iraq is under control. We are no where near losing. The only reason there is a fear of losing Iraq at all is because our own civillian people would have us leave before we are finished. The only real problem is that Islamic people from surrounding countries would rather trip Iraqi efforts than support them. They come across the Syrian border like mesquitoes thinking to fight for what their leaders and clerics have instructed them as to be the will of their God, but only wind up in being slaughtered. Their defiance is shown with every car bomb that kills 30 of their own Muslim brethren in the name of "Allah".

The people in the Middle East reflect a people that has been stagnated for centuries. Many areas do not even have free running water or electricity. They are unable even to translate great wealth into minor power. It's this stagnation that has bred the terrorism that plagues the world today. That these Muslims rich and poor are enraptured by their terrorist like “triumphs” over the West, shows how barbaric and prehistoric they are. The truth is that in the Arab heartlands of Islam, Muslims have made a gory mess of their faith. After centuries of self-destructive behavior, the Middle Eastern civilization is unable to compete in a single field of human endeavor relevant to progress. Instead, Middle East societies are racing backward into superstition, bigotry and a narcotic culture of blame. Do not mistake this for bigotry. The world is full of Islamists. It is only in the Middle East that we find such a perversion.

 

[Surenderer]

Peace,
I am new to this forum...I kinda stumbled upon it by accident but I am glad I did. I do notice that the argument is made that the US doesn't target children with their bombings around the World however in my opinion that doesn't really matter.......I drunk driver doesn't target people to kill either when he drives yet isn't he still punished if he kills someone? One really has to stretch far to say that Islam is the enemy of the U.S. because it stands for freedom......please name me a dictator that is in the Middle East that at one time the U.S. hasn't at one time supported. Hypocrisy is the U.S. problem not Islam. Why isn't Canada the target of Islam? Switzerland? Iceland? aren't these free countries?(in alotta ways more so) Only a 2nd grader would believe these lies the George Bush tells Why did the US support Saddam in the 80's? wasn't he bad then? why did they play Iran and Iraq against each other helping them kill millions of each other? are these the actions of a righteous country? why sanction a country by targeting their water supply and causing the deaths of tens of thousands yet claim you are about peace?Are Arab armies invading the West? So what if they die the believe in righteous Jihad right?(according to the west) These are the questions the Arab world asks(I've lived there) about America.....but I guess it's easy to blame Islam for these problems rather than look in the mirror

 

[Pacridge]

Peace,
I am new to this forum...I kinda stumbled upon it by accident but I am glad I did. I do notice that the argument is made that the US doesn't target children with their bombings around the World however in my opinion that doesn't really matter.......I drunk driver doesn't target people to kill either when he drives yet isn't he still punished if he kills someone? One really has to stretch far to say that Islam is the enemy of the U.S. because it stands for freedom......please name me a dictator that is in the Middle East that at one time the U.S. hasn't at one time supported. Hypocrisy is the U.S. problem not Islam. Why isn't Canada the target of Islam? Switzerland? Iceland? aren't these free countries?(in alotta ways more so) Only a 2nd grader would believe these lies the George Bush tells Why did the US support Saddam in the 80's? wasn't he bad then? why did they play Iran and Iraq against each other helping them kill millions of each other? are these the actions of a righteous country? why sanction a country by targeting their water supply and causing the deaths of tens of thousands yet claim you are about peace?Are Arab armies invading the West? So what if they die the believe in righteous Jihad right?(according to the west) These are the questions the Arab world asks(I've lived there) about America.....but I guess it's easy to blame Islam for these problems rather than look in the mirror

Welcome to Debate Politics!

Interesting position and thoughts. However a drunk driver isn't attempting any noble cause. He's merely out having and drink and possibly destroying lives on this drunken way.

 

[Surenderer]

Welcome to Debate Politics!

Interesting position and thoughts. However a drunk driver isn't attempting any noble cause. He's merely out having and drink and possibly destroying lives on this drunken way.

Thanks for the invite ....Of course the argument could be made if Bush's cause was really noble I mean it's common knowledge that he misled the country to take us into war.......why do that if your cause is noble?

 

[MSgt]

You've got it all backwards and you are late to the game with your arguments. There were a multiple of reasons for attacking Iraq. Maybe presenting nobility or the vision for the spread of democracy as the cure to terrorism is too much for a President to expect from America anymore.

Hypocracy is an act of human nature that exists in all men of every nation throughout history. My point about it, is that too often the word is used by others that would join the haters of America in order to prove their own agendas - all the while being a part of their own little hypocracies. From Iran Contra to backing dictators against worse dictators to backing Russia against Hitler, America's securities are preserved. The same Americans that loudly voice against such acts are the same Americans that enjoy the security it provides…..more hypocracy. The truth of our reality is that we have to accept our hypocracy, because our way of life is built on it. The same goes for everyone else in their own individual countries.

We are the target of Islam because we support Israel. Oh sure, others may support them too, but you won't see their governments making a difference with that support. We are the target, because we strike back. We do not plead and give up ransoms for our hostages.

Blaming a tragic happening on yourself is the lowest form of denial. Yes, we want that 20-year-old terrorist dead or imprisoned. But we are naive and self-defeating if we simply continue to pick off terrorists in ones and twos, or even in hundreds, without recognizing that the very people whom we have tolerated in Middle Eastern societies have created the environment in which terror thrives. And those same people have done their best to deflect all blame onto us, because they know there are people like you that will choose to be blind and believe it.

It's actually easier for some to blame America, rather than look in the mirror and recognize the weakness that would allow these people to thrive.

 

[ShamMol]

You've got it all backwards and you are late to the game with your arguments. There were a multiple of reasons for attacking Iraq. Maybe presenting nobility or the vision for the spread of democracy as the cure to terrorism is too much for a President to expect from America anymore.

No, it isn't, and if that was the reason to go to war in your mind, then you got it all wrong. The President presented the need to go to war for national security reasons, not humanitarian ones. That was the main reason-national security, and after that turned out to be bogus, the Administration then switched gears and made it humanitarian and philosophical to cover their tracks.

Hypocracy is an act of human nature that exists in all men of every nation throughout history. My point about it, is that too often the word is used by others that would join the haters of America in order to prove their own agendas - all the while being a part of their own little hypocracies. From Iran Contra to backing dictators against worse dictators to backing Russia against Hitler, America's securities are preserved. The same Americans that loudly voice against such acts are the same Americans that enjoy the security it provides…..more hypocracy. The truth of our reality is that we have to accept our hypocracy, because our way of life is built on it. The same goes for everyone else in their own individual countries.

So basically, if we are against the war, we are hypocrites because we enjoy the security that it brought us? BS, what security, in the end it will likely create more terrorists. How is a war that should never have happened, that's main main goal was to stop the nuclear program (which bloody didn't exists!), that was created to invade, how is that something we should want. How is that something we should support. Forget the troops for a moment when you answer this, because we will always get them what they need, but how in hell should we support this war. Give me the rationale, cause I am not seeing it.

We are the target of Islam because we support Israel. Oh sure, others may support them too, but you won't see their governments making a difference with that support. We are the target, because we strike back. We do not plead and give up ransoms for our hostages.

Completely agree-probably the one truth to come out of this entire thread.

Blaming a tragic happening on yourself is the lowest form of denial. Yes, we want that 20-year-old terrorist dead or imprisoned. But we are naive and self-defeating if we simply continue to pick off terrorists in ones and twos, or even in hundreds, without recognizing that the very people whom we have tolerated in Middle Eastern societies have created the environment in which terror thrives. And those same people have done their best to deflect all blame onto us, because they know there are people like you that will choose to be blind and believe it.

So, you are saying that we need to understand and create a mindset change within the middle east. Wait, wasn't I just attacked by Rove for saying that exact thing...hmm...of course not. I want to create long lasting change in the region, and I know this won't be possible without those two things.

It's actually easier for some to blame America, rather than look in the mirror and recognize the weakness that would allow these people to thrive.

I don't blame America, I blame its leaders for leading us into a war with faulty intelligence, without waiting to exhaust all diplomatic means, without doing a whole slue of things. And on top of that, not supporting the troops when they return through not funding the VA (which is now facing a $1 billion shortfall). I don't blame America, that would be wrong, I blame the leaders who allowed this to happen and who perpetuated it themselves.

 

[Surenderer]

You've got it all backwards and you are late to the game with your arguments. There were a multiple of reasons for attacking Iraq. Maybe presenting nobility or the vision for the spread of democracy as the cure to terrorism is too much for a President to expect from America anymore.

Hypocracy is an act of human nature that exists in all men of every nation throughout history. My point about it, is that too often the word is used by others that would join the haters of America in order to prove their own agendas - all the while being a part of their own little hypocracies. From Iran Contra to backing dictators against worse dictators to backing Russia against Hitler, America's securities are preserved. The same Americans that loudly voice against such acts are the same Americans that enjoy the security it provides…..more hypocracy. The truth of our reality is that we have to accept our hypocracy, because our way of life is built on it. The same goes for everyone else in their own individual countries.

We are the target of Islam because we support Israel. Oh sure, others may support them too, but you won't see their governments making a difference with that support. We are the target, because we strike back. We do not plead and give up ransoms for our hostages.

Blaming a tragic happening on yourself is the lowest form of denial. Yes, we want that 20-year-old terrorist dead or imprisoned. But we are naive and self-defeating if we simply continue to pick off terrorists in ones and twos, or even in hundreds, without recognizing that the very people whom we have tolerated in Middle Eastern societies have created the environment in which terror thrives. And those same people have done their best to deflect all blame onto us, because they know there are people like you that will choose to be blind and believe it.

It's actually easier for some to blame America, rather than look in the mirror and recognize the weakness that would allow these people to thrive.

I agree with you in alotta ways......but please tell me this....when the U.S. says they are for freedom and democracy for everyone is that true? if it is then please tell me why the U.S. supports/supported dictators in the past and if it isn't then it's hypocrisy. Now I never said that the U.S. has a monopoly on the hypocrisy thing(there are plenty of Muslims that are the same) but the difference is that the most Muslims are victims of these Governments that the U.S. supports thus directly effected by U.S. hypocrisy Sorry to tell you also but support for Israel is one thing but BLIND support for Israel is something different.This blind support is what upsets most Muslims not just supporting there right to exist As a Muslim myself I know this is what upsets me

 

[Pacridge]

Thanks for the invite ....Of course the argument could be made if Bush's cause was really noble I mean it's common knowledge that he misled the country to take us into war.......why do that if your cause is noble?

I think that's known as an ends justifies the means mentality. And from what I can tell by your posts I agree with you and I think it's wrong.

 

[MSgt]

Two months before the attack into Iraq, we were told that the enemy was the Saddam Regime, not the people. We were ordered to remove all Amwerican and Marine Corps flags before we crossed so as not to be seen as a conquering force, rather as a liberating force to the Iraqi people. WMD was something pushed on the American public..not us.

Terrorism is bred from the perversion of their religion. Dictators and the House of Saud use Clerics to oppress their people. From this oppression comes the hate that is directed on to us and Israel - After all, that's what their religious leaders tell them. They wouldn't lie, because they speak for "Allah". Until the people in the Middle East have more control over their lives and are not subjected, or at least as susceptible, to the hate speech of their rich leaders, terrorism was going to just grow. Iraq was the best place to start. The spread of Democracy or the spread of terrorism will be obvious to us all in the years to follow.

 

[ShamMol]

Two months before the attack into Iraq, we were told that the enemy was the Saddam Regime, not the people. We were ordered to remove all Amwerican and Marine Corps flags before we crossed so as not to be seen as a conquering force, rather as a liberating force to the Iraqi people. WMD was something pushed on the American public..not us.

Fine, that was the rationale given to us by the Bush administration. They kept on adding that we would be greeted as a liberating force so that is probably why they instructed you to do that so that we could be seen as a liberating force. But your rationale for war is not the same one that was given to us, which was to get rid of the weapons of mass destructions.

Terrorism is bred from the perversion of their religion. Dictators and the House of Saud use Clerics to oppress their people. From this oppression comes the hate that is directed on to us and Israel - After all, that's what their religious leaders tell them. They wouldn't lie, because they speak for "Allah". Until the people in the Middle East have more control over their lives and are not subjected, or at least as susceptible, to the hate speech of their rich leaders, terrorism was going to just grow. Iraq was the best place to start. The spread of Democracy or the spread of terrorism will be obvious to us all in the years to follow.

I don't even want to start on this, except to say that Iraq had no impact on our national security (especially considering what was happening with North Korea at the time). Also, there is a way to spread democracy which doesn't involve war.

 

[MSgt]

Iran and Iraq: It would have very bad for America and Israel if Iran won against Iraq. We supported the lesser of two evils.

WWII: It would have been a tougher fight if we hadn't accepted Russia as an ally.

I don't see any "Blind" support. I see Israel as being afraid to open their borders to Palestinians, because of the threat of suicide bombers. Perhaps I've been missing something. You are right about the Muslim victims, but you also have to look at their selfish governments that have their own bank accounts interests at heart over it's people. There is a lot of blame to go around with regards to peaceful Muslims that are caught up in the middle.

 

[Pacridge]

Two months before the attack into Iraq, we were told that the enemy was the Saddam Regime, not the people. We were ordered to remove all Amwerican and Marine Corps flags before we crossed so as not to be seen as a conquering force, rather as a liberating force to the Iraqi people. WMD was something pushed on the American public..not us.

That makes it sound like the team Bush knew all along that the WMD threat they practically shoved down our throats was BS to begin with.

 

[Surenderer]

Iran and Iraq: It would have very bad for America and Israel if Iran won against Iraq. We supported the lesser of two evils.

WWII: It would have been a tougher fight if we hadn't accepted Russia as an ally.

I don't see any "Blind" support. I see Israel as being afraid to open their borders to Palestinians, because of the threat of suicide bombers. Perhaps I've been missing something. You are right about the Muslim victims, but you also have to look at their selfish governments that have their own bank accounts interests at heart over it's people. There is a lot of blame to go around with regards to peaceful Muslims that are caught up in the middle.

Supported the lesser of two evils? the why behind the scenes then? why not openly? Was supporting Saddam by giving him poision gas the lesser of two evils also? Do you consider that an act of terrorism by America?

 

[MSgt]

Not total BS. We were given handouts that would enable us to recognize WMD.

Yep. I do consider giving gas and poisons as a form of supporting terrorist acts if that is what happened, however, I believe we just choose to look the other way at times rather than support. I think that's just as bad though. Our support of lesser evils has bit us in the ass time and again. Think of it like this....if we just pointed our fingers at everyone that is the enemy and went against them, they would unite against us. Diplomacy is a double edged sword.

 

[ShamMol]

Not total BS. We were given handouts that would enable us to recognize WMD.

Yep. I do consider giving gas and poisons as a form of supporting terrorist acts if that is what happened, however, I believe we just choose to look the other way at times rather than support. I think that's just as bad though. Our support of lesser evils has bit us in the ass time and again. Think of it like this....if we just pointed our fingers at everyone that is the enemy and went against them, they would unite against us. Diplomacy is a double edged sword.

If that is what you think happened in regards to Iraq before the first Gulf War, you are wrong. We didn't just look the other way. Corporations within this country gave materials to help Sadaam to create WMDs. They supplied him with Aid, both covert and official. They sent officials to meet and discuss our relations several times.

We supported. I agree supporting the lesser of two evils is still evil and thus should not be done unless under extreme circumstances.

 

[MSgt]

I wasn't zeroing in on just Iraq. I was referring to all "evil" countries out there. We tend to look the other way until it becomes a huge mess.

 

[Pacridge]

If that is what you think happened in regards to Iraq before the first Gulf War, you are wrong. We didn't just look the other way. Corporations within this country gave materials to help Sadaam to create WMDs. They supplied him with Aid, both covert and official. They sent officials to meet and discuss our relations several times.

We supported. I agree supporting the lesser of two evils is still evil and thus should not be done unless under extreme circumstances.

Halibruton's doing business with Iran right now through it's off-shore companies.

 

[MSgt]

Free enterprise and greed......If it wasn't Haliburton then it just would have been some one else.

 

[Pacridge]

Free enterprise and greed......If it wasn't Haliburton then it just would have been some one else.

I think anytime a US company does this it's nothing short of treason. There are laws against doing business with these regimes for a reason. The fact that they're able side step the law simply by using an off-shore arm of the company doesn't cut it for me.

 

[MSgt]

I'd like to see that. As interesting as it would be to see, it would never happen. Liberals everywhere would rally, march, and sing, for that company's rights under what our "Founding Father's" envisioned for our country and it's future.

 

[teacher]

I denounce your targetting of our children .

Okay, Aleem, let's make it even more simple. If I thought anyone on MY side TARGETTED CHILDREN I would gladly beat them to death with my fists and feet. Please point them out to me and I will start my rightious Jihad.

Do YOU denounce the same? I DENOUNCE SUCH.

Find wriggle room in that statement Gandhi.

Do you want anything else ? a lollipop or something .

Yes. I want to see those that TARGET CHILDREN STONE COLD FRIGGIN DEAD.

I like that warm fuzzy feeling I get when I see such dead.

Forget all previous. Answer that. Only.

 

[MSgt]

He said we target children? What cleric from the Middle East has been in his ear? I'm pretty sure it's the other way around and that they even target their own. Those aren't our Skyjacked planes, and car bombs going off in crowded bazaars.

Truth.....Marines in a patrol are attacked by insurgents. To hit the Marines, they fire into the crowd without care of who gets hit (women and children). Marines immediately respond by aiming and firing their M16A4s with one hand, while moving through the crowd towards the attackers and throwing civillians down with the other hand.

This is American Marines in Iraq and would venture to sya soldiers too. This is our training. This is real. This is regular and routine. All the BS that is being typed in this site by irresponsible and ignorant people, who are following around and picking up the dung left behind by their political parties, is completely clueless to who we are and would have everyone stagnate on imperfections rather than progress forward.

 

[teacher]

[

QUOTE=Aleem]
I denounce your targetting of our children .

For all the world to see Gunny.

 

[teacher]

Marines immediately respond by aiming and firing their M16A4s with one hand, while moving through the crowd towards the attackers and throwing civillians down with the other hand.

This I don't doubt for second. GySgt, and others in the know. Gonna start a new thread in this forum. I got a question and observation. Please respond. I for one really want to know. Title. Military tactics.

 

[Aleem]

Please point them out to me and I will start my rightious Jihad.

Madeline Albright in her now infamous statement on 60 Minutes in 1996, when, in response to a question about whether the death of 500,000 children as a result of sanctions on Iraq could be justified, she said that “this was a very hard choice” but “we think the price is worth it.”

"This month, US policy will kill 4,500 Iraqi children under the age of five, according to the United Nations, just as it did last month and the month before that all the way back to 1991."

- Noam Chomsky, Edward Said and others

Have a nice day, Mr Teacher.