What's your attitude toward Islam ?

[MSgt]

Muslim clereks do not stand and point fingers at the viciousness of their own world. They are silent until America fights back. It is they that have been the cause and the root of the hate that is spewing out of the Middle East. For every rent-a-clerek the House of Saud pushes in front of a microphone, there is another one somewhere else that remains silent.

 

[akyron]

So what percentage of Msulims advocate the things you posted about here? Or is this a selective sampling?

Those are the religious leaders.
How many followers do you supposed Mohammad has?

You cannot be a leader without followers.

Anyone have a census other than 1.2 billion?

Peaceful Muslims are thrown in with the rest of us and are taken to task as well.

Qur’an 9:16 “Do you think you will get away before Allah knows who among you have striven hard and fought?”
Qur’an 4:97 “Verily, when angels take the souls of those who die wronging themselves (by staying home), they say: ‘In what (plight or engagement) were you?’ They reply: ‘Weak on the earth.’ Such men will find their abode in Hell, an evil resort!”

Qur’an 9:81 “Those who stayed behind rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the Messenger. They hated to strive and fight with their goods and lives in the Cause of Allah. They said, ‘Go not forth in the heat.’ Say, ‘The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat.’ If only they could understand! So let them laugh a little, for they will weep much as a reward for what they did. If Allah brings you back (from the campaign) to a party of the hypocrites and they ask to go out to fight, say: ‘You shall never go out to fight with me against a foe. You were content sitting inactive on the first occasion. So sit with the useless men who lag behind.’ Do not pray for any of them (Muhammad) that die, nor stand at his grave. They rejected Allah and disbelieved His Messenger. They died in a state of perverse rebellion.”

Unfortunately peaceful Muslims are seen as rejecting Allah and get no virgins in the afterlife.


They call it the "Muslim world" for a reason.
5 billion other people on the planet simply do not matter.

 

[Pacridge]

Muslim clereks do not stand and point fingers at the viciousness of their own world. They are silent until America fights back. It is they that have been the cause and the root of the hate that is spewing out of the Middle East. For every rent-a-clerek the House of Saud pushes in front of a microphone, there is another one somewhere else that remains silent.

That's a very valid and good point.

 

[teacher]

An Iraqi Child blown up by USA Army

What are you trying to say here Aleem? That the army TARGETED a child? A tragic accident perhaps. We all know better than that if you contend that the army TARGETED CHILDREN. To bad if it offends you but Arabs are the only ones I know of that TARGET children. And that sir makes killing those that TARGET CHILDREN, not only necessary but downright satisfying. And don't try to say look at that link you offered of kids running from Israeli tanks. I didn't see any bits and pieces of kids strewn about like you see after an Arab attack on the Jews. The key word here if you hadn't noticed is TARGET. If your Arab brothers didn't TARGET CHILDREN they just might get some sympathy. I don't care the cause or politics of anything when I see people TARGET CHILDREN I just want them dead. And I feel all fuzzy and warm inside when they get that way. Now do we understand each other?

 

[teacher]

How much Arabic language media do you partake of regularly? I mean what your basis for noting a lack? If you're like me, I don't speak Arabic and tend to find Arabic language media intensely boring because I don't know what they're talking about. So, for me not to've noticed Muslim leaders saying anything is entirely unremarkable.

So have you conducted some intensive survey of Muslim leaders comments? Or is your argument based merely on ignorance?

Well I've certainly seen enough of them backing terrorists or justifying their behavior. NEVER speaking out against it. In all the years, on all the news outlets. You can find translated Arab media if you look. Don't bother me with semantics. A semantical argument is just a way to distract from a weak position. They TARGET CHILDREN. When they stop that I'll listen to anything they have to say. Until then I just want them dead. Clear enough?

And that ignorant comment might just get you a top ten.

 

[akyron]

Well I've certainly seen enough of them backing terrorists or justifying their behavior. NEVER speaking out against it. In all the years, on all the news outlets. You can find translated Arab media if you look. Don't bother me with semantics. A semantical argument is just a way to distract from a weak position. They TARGET CHILDREN. When they stop that I'll listen to anything they have to say. Until then I just want them dead. Clear enough?

And that ignorant comment might just get you a top ten.

If they speak out against terrorism, antisemitism, or any of a host of topics they risk becoming a hypocrite to their own faith. It is understandable they are slow to react when speaking out may get something chopped off.


Qur’an 9:44 “Those who believe in Allah and the Last Day do not ask for an exemption from fighting with your goods and persons. And Allah knows well those who do their duty.”

 

[MSgt]

Muslims who preach Jihad against the West decided years ago that killing Jewish or Christian civillians is not only acceptable, but pleasing to their god when done by "martyrs." They do not speak against it and when others do, they kill their own. I don't think it is as easy as calling them cowards. It is so deep rooted in their heritage that it has become religiously sanctioned and morally excepted. Arab Muslims are allowed to spew anti-Western, anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, anti-Hindu, anti-everybody-else hate speech. That’s just their culture. But it’s taboo for an American to suggest that the roots of terror may go a bit deeper than a few organized terrorists. The world community would rather blame America for their Middle Eastern self-inflicted problems then to face the reality of being less than politically correct and pointing the finger at the base from which terrorism is spawned - Islam.

Liberals aren't accustomed to facing reality though. They would rather find where America trips and point it out for all to see. Nothing else matters unless there is an angle from which America can be blamed.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Until then I just want them dead. Clear enough?
And that ignorant comment might just get you a top ten.

Your comment about how you want them dead? I agree it it is an ignorant comment. I'm not sure what it has to do with me though.

I'm just pointing out how the samples used are not a representative ones and therefore can't ne used to draw useful, meaningful conclusions about the whole from it.
But, I can't really insert reasoning between you and your hatreds. That's something you'll have to do on your own.

 

[Plain old me]

But come to think of it when do you ever see Muslim leaders say that the terrorists are wrong and unworthy of paradise?

Groups which carry out suicide bombings are "the enemy of Islam"

"Extremism is the enemy of Islam"

-both the above quotes by Grand Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi of the Al-Azhar mosque of Cairo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3059365.stm

"To use Islam, as a justification to declare an Armageddon against all non-Muslims is inherently un-Islamic – it is a despicable distortion of a faith of peace." - Muqtedar Khan, Ph.D. [American Muslim]
http://www.islamfortoday.com/khan09.htm

AMC NATIONAL RELEASE: AMERICAN NATIONAL COUNCIL CONDEMNS THE MURDER OF BRITISH HOSTAGE IN IRAQ
http://www.amcnational.org/ Click on 'News'

All this seems to me to be leading Muslims condeming terrorists. I think just because some Muslims are terrorists, just as some Christians are terrorists, just as some members of almost every religion are terrorists does not condemn the entire religion.

 

[MSgt]

Congratulations. You found three Muslim leaders in America that condemn the actions practiced by their colleagues in the Middle East. You should hear and see what the Islamist clereks in Saudia Arabia say, because I don't think they care. Islam is a tool used by the ruling class to oppress their people. Given a whole world that participates in Islam, what else can explain all of the hatred and terrorist activity towards Western Society stemming overwhelmingly from the Middle East?

 

[Plain old me]

I was making the point that there are Muslims who do oppose terrorism, and as such we can not just dismiss an entire religion as terrorists breeders. Its true, there are a great deal of Islamic terrorists, but that does not speak for the entire religion, the quotes I pasted exemplify this. All religions have rotten apples who use terror to their own ends, but these people cannot be allowed to act as a basis for a view of the entire religion.

 

[MikeyC]

I said 'with' meaning Islam itself isn't more good or evil than religions such as Christianity. It's certain elements of Arabic culture that has become tied into Islam like Islamic Fundamentalism that I'm against. But I'm against Fundamentalist Christianity as well.

 

[MSgt]

You are correct. This is why I have always been careful to seperate the peaceful Muslim in the Middle East with the "large and in charge" militant Islamist in the Middle East. Muslims outside of the region do not share their hatred or bigotry towards other civilizations. This is a painfully obvious observation.

In the Middle East, the perversion of Islam is the root of the problem.

I don't know of any other fundamentalist in any other religion that skyjacks airplanes and blows up American Embassies. Maybe an abortion clinic, but this is hardly an equal comparison to the practices of beheadings and torture.

 

[MikeyC]

I never meant I was against Christian fundamentalism for the same reasons, though I can see how you thought that was implied from the way I worded it. The perversion of Islam though is spreading beyond the region into other areas of the world. I've heard reports of mosques in my area being tied to terrorism. This perverse verion of Islam somehow has made itself appealing to at least some normal Muslims.

 

[Aleem]

It seems to everybody that Teacher and akyron lead the most offensive aggressive targeted anti-islamic anti-muslims attitude built on ignorance and hatred . But it's okay .

Let's clarify the topics they've incited .

And i invite everybody to neutrally read these replies made by reliable islamic sources (most of them are american -not arabic- muslims) to answer questions of non-muslims (most of them are from USA) .

1. Jihad .

This link shows 43 replies to 43 questions about Jihad in Islam .

2. Rape .

Link 1 - 2 .

3. Female Genital Mutilation .

Here is The Link

4. Suicide Bombing .

Link 1 - 2 - 3 .

5. Beating Women .

Here is The Link .



At the end, Read this :
Islam: The Next American Religion . by Michael Wolfe

 

[akyron]

Groups which carry out suicide bombings are "the enemy of Islam"

"Extremism is the enemy of Islam"

-both the above quotes by Grand Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi of the Al-Azhar mosque of Cairo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3059365.stm

"To use Islam, as a justification to declare an Armageddon against all non-Muslims is inherently un-Islamic – it is a despicable distortion of a faith of peace." - Muqtedar Khan, Ph.D. [American Muslim]
http://www.islamfortoday.com/khan09.htm

AMC NATIONAL RELEASE: AMERICAN NATIONAL COUNCIL CONDEMNS THE MURDER OF BRITISH HOSTAGE IN IRAQ
http://www.amcnational.org/ Click on 'News'

All this seems to me to be leading Muslims condeming terrorists. I think just because some Muslims are terrorists, just as some Christians are terrorists, just as some members of almost every religion are terrorists does not condemn the entire religion.

Oh I think you can condemn most religions just on the basic propensity to create divisions among humans.
Anything carried to extremes can poison you eventually.

Thanks for the links by the way.

 

[akyron]

It seems to everybody that Teacher and akyron lead the most offensive aggressive targeted anti-islamic anti-muslims attitude built on ignorance and hatred . But it's okay .

Let's clarify the topics they've incited .

And i invite everybody to neutrally read these replies made by reliable islamic sources (most of them are american -not arabic- muslims) to answer questions of non-muslims (most of them are from USA) .

1. Jihad .

This link shows 43 replies to 43 questions about Jihad in Islam .

2. Rape .

Link 1 - 2 .

3. Female Genital Mutilation .

Here is The Link

4. Suicide Bombing .

Link 1 - 2 - 3 .

5. Beating Women .

Here is The Link .



At the end, Read this :
Islam: The Next American Religion . by Michael Wolfe

Like Durbin I apologize if I "offended" you by posting quotes straight out of the Koran and Hadiths but a rose by any name remains a rose.
I am glad you found someone that agrees.
What you should probably be offended by is:

Jihad

Bukhari:V1B2N25 “Allah’s Apostle was asked, ‘What is the best deed?’ He replied, ‘To believe in Allah and His Apostle Muhammad.’ The questioner then asked, ‘What is the next best in goodness?’ He replied, ‘To participate in Jihad, religious fighting in Allah's Cause.’”


Rape in Islam: Blaming the Victim
"Traditional Islamic law, which is still very much in force in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Sudan, most (if not all) of post-Taliban Afghanistan, and elsewhere, completely disregards the testimony of women in cases of a sexual nature. Aside from physical evidence, the only way to establish rape is by the testimony of four male witnesses (who, by the way, must be Muslims in good standing) who actually saw the act itself. Without these witnesses and a confession from the accused rapist, the victim will stand condemned by her very accusation: she wasn’t raped, so she must be guilty of zina."

Zina is having sex out of marriage.
Penalties are :
Islamic law first takes into consideration the condition and helplessness of the fornicator and only then does it prescribe the punishment. The fornicators are divided into seven groups and different penalties are fixed for them:

Stoning to death.
Stoning and lashes — both.
A hundred lashes and exile from the city after shaving the head.
Fifty lashes.
Seventy-five lashes.
‘Zighas’ it means picking up the lash many times to hit once.
The penalty of fornication and fine both.

Ahh yes gentle Islam.

Female Genital Mutilation
"In the Middle East, FGM is practised in Egypt, Oman, Yemen and the United Arab Emirates."

This is not an Islam only thing.

Suicide Bombing
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
Qur’an 8:67 “It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”

The bombers strap themselves with powerful explosives (often mixed with shrapnel) and seek out a target, which may be military but is more commonly civilian. In order to maximise the loss of life, the bombers may seek out cafés or city buses crowded with people at rush hour, or less commonly a military target (for example, soldiers waiting for transport at roadside). By seeking enclosed locations, a successful explosion usually kills a number of people.

This too has been done before.

"During the Crusades, the Knights Templar destroyed one of their own ships, killing 140 Christians in order to kill ten times as many Muslims."

A crappy thing to do then as well.

Beating Women

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”
Qur'an[4:34] "The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme."

Hey as long as they do what you say there is no beating so thats cool?
I disagree.

Islam does not hold the monopoly on wife beaters either.
I hope that clarifies things for you.

 

[teacher]

Hey Allem.

Nice prose. Whatever. I'll make it short and simple. Who besides Arabs TARGETS CHILDREN? I want those that do such dead. Stone cold dead. BECAUSE they TARGET CHILDREN. Put those that do in front of me me and I'll make them dead. Stone cold dead. Because they TARGET CHILDREN. Notice you don't address that fact. Coward.

 

[teacher]

I'll repost this for you aleem. Address this. This and only this. Every time you write some lovely prose I'll repost this. Akron got the subtle parts down. This then is left to me. What part of the following don't you get? Your inability to not answer the following makes me hate your friggin guts even more. Your Egyptian ass uses our freedom against us. If I were to speak my mind in your country I would be executed. But not before I take a couple savages with me. Denounce the TARGETING OF CHILDREN aleem. Right now, YOUr big chance. DO that and I'll offer my left hand in freindship. Denounce it coward. Fight your Jihad against men. Not CHILDREN. Say it.SAY IT SAY IT SAY IT. You can't. Anything the Jews do to those who TARGET CHILDREN I applaud. Hey aleem, anytime, anywhere,but you would go after my kids instead wouldn,t you. But you know what aleem, I really don't feel so bad. My kind is as we speak killing your kind, in your backyard. we are winning. we are coming. Gavel my ass moderator but that is the truth. Your kind are getting dead. so talk all you want. my nation is finally putting an end to it. did you too dance in the street when the towers fell aleem. I bet you did. no matter your kind is getting dead. and it makes me happy. I teach my children that your kind getting dead is a good thing. I tell them this as we eat good meals in the air conditioning while we watch your kind get dead on our big sweet tv. the stone age can't buck up against the space age allem.I care not what you think of me. I just care that your kind gets dead. and then we free your women. then they vote. and wear what they want. and teach the young boys that america is the ones that freed their mothers. it is coming aleem. all your BS will not stop it. your god is road kill before the US might. Find all the strenght you want in those of this site that side with you. Matters not. My side won the election. three more years at least of your kind getting dead aleem. Denounce those that TARGET CHILDREN aleem. The wave of freedom will reach that refuge of savages you call egypt. run while you can.

What are you trying to say here Aleem? That the army TARGETED a child? A tragic accident perhaps. We all know better than that if you contend that the army TARGETED CHILDREN. To bad if it offends you but Arabs are the only ones I know of that TARGET children. And that sir makes killing those that TARGET CHILDREN, not only necessary but downright satisfying. And don't try to say look at that link you offered of kids running from Israeli tanks. I didn't see any bits and pieces of kids strewn about like you see after an Arab attack on the Jews. The key word here if you hadn't noticed is TARGET. If your Arab brothers didn't TARGET CHILDREN they just might get some sympathy. I don't care the cause or politics of anything when I see people TARGET CHILDREN I just want them dead. And I feel all fuzzy and warm inside when they get that way. Now do we understand each other?

 

[akyron]

Hey Allem.

Nice prose. Whatever. I'll make it short and simple. Who besides Arabs TARGETS CHILDREN? I want those that do such dead. Stone cold dead. BECAUSE they TARGET CHILDREN. Put those that do in front of me me and I'll make them dead. Stone cold dead. Because they TARGET CHILDREN. Notice you don't address that fact. Coward.

Soft targets that cannot effectivly fight back and a devastating psychological blow to boot.

What more can a militant ask for?
There is no honor here. It is all about achieving strategic goals.
It appears very effective at first.
A few more lost countries and they may realize this behavior pisses us off and strengthens our resolve more than anything else.
Some of us anyway.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Hey Allem.

Nice prose. Whatever. I'll make it short and simple. Who besides Arabs TARGETS CHILDREN? I want those that do such dead. Stone cold dead. BECAUSE they TARGET CHILDREN. Put those that do in front of me me and I'll make them dead. Stone cold dead. Because they TARGET CHILDREN. Notice you don't address that fact. Coward.

Arabs don't target children. Some terrorist sects do.

 

[MSgt]

The general truth is that Arabs do not target children, however, there is enough of them that do and enough of them that support the murderers throughout the Middle East that have followed in their teachings. Corruption and hypocrisy may be elements of the human condition, but Arab elites have developed them to a superhuman extreme. The House of Saud have used the Koran and it's clerics to keep their people in line as they horde all of the money made by selling their people's energy resource to the world. If they could, they would steal the air itself and charge the poor for breathing. They are to blame for much of the perversion of the Islamic faith in the Middle East. The Arab clerecs, especially, will remain guilty-in great part-for every murder committed by Muslim extremists from all over the region. They created the monsters who now dictate their version of Islam. In the Middle East, blaming others for every problem is the narcotic of choice. Even the world community would rather blame America for their Middle Eastern self-inflicted problems then to face the reality of being less than politically correct. I don't believe in hiding the bold truth behind PC.

This is the Islam prevalent in the Middle East.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

The difference in saying "Arabs target children" and "terrorists target children" is the difference between "F*** Iraq" and "F*** Saddam." Remember the pic that Aleem posted? He's one of the few muslims, if there are any others, on this forum and I just thought that if he was offended by the sailors spelling out "F*** Iraq," maybe, just maybe, we should be a little careful with our choice of words.

 

[MSgt]

How old was that picture? That is one of the big carriers which means it was full of Navy personnel that didn't touch the sand anyway.

Iraq, before our assault, was seen as the enemy. A couple months before the assault, we began to develop into the mind set that the Saddam Regime was the enemy and Iraq was to be liberated. That's why the order was passed down for us to take all American and Marine flags down from our HMWWVs. We did not want to appear as a conquering force to the cheering Iraqi people.

This is where we started differentiating between militant Islamists and true oppressed Muslims. That's our mind set anyway.

 

[Aleem]

Take it easy Teacher, All this black hatred may hurt you, Buddy . I know why you're too angry and about to burst . This because you didn't expect that my links would easily refute your elaborate allegations and your deliberate misinterpretation of Islam . But you know what, it was your fault, because i invited only the neutral persons to read these links NOT the tanks of the blind hate, So blame yourself .

Second you must know well that you mean nothing to me, i don't care if you hate me or not, i don't run after your disgusting friendship .

Third. You said that you applaud when jews assault us and at the same time you don't want us to dance in street when - as you claim - fanatic Muslims attacked your towers ( a blatant contradiction ) .

Also you said that we live in the stone age, So can you Mr Genius explain how people living in the stone age could perform that highly-sophisticated highly-organized highly-technical attack against people of the space age ?

At the end i confess i must say it :

I denounce your targetting of our children .

Do you want anything else ? a lollipop or something .

By the way, I couldn't help laughing when you said you're liquidating my kind, You couldn't even liquidate some Vietnamians, You can't even control a very weak country like Iraq, So please shut up and stop watching american movies and be realistic .
But if you meant liquidating Islam : Mission:Impossible . Islam is the fastest growing religion allover the world . Read this . Bye .