What's your attitude toward Islam ?

[teacher]

(terrorists themselves must be pursued without remorse).

That can't be right. Maybe if I rub my eyes.


(terrorists themselves must be pursued without remorse)


Nope, it's still there. Maybe he has a fever or something.........

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

That can't be right. Maybe if I rub my eyes.

(terrorists themselves must be pursued without remorse)

Nope, it's still there. Maybe he has a fever or something.........

I don't know what you're getting excited about. That was an example that I quoted from GySgt. Kind of a "What Not To Do" kind of thing.

 

[Tashah]

The thread question is: What's your attitude about Islam?

Rather than continue with further digression and the gnashing of teeth lol...

My attitude about Islam is ambivalent. Like all of the major religions, it contains elements of the good, the bad, and the ugly. Ultimately, religion is nothing more or less than how it is interpreted... and how that interpretation serves to guide our thoughts, words, and deeds.

My ambivalent attitude about Islam also extends to Judaism and Christianity. For many reasons, I have composed and adhere to a personal essence of spirituality. I believe that the maxim "Seek and ye shall find" invites us all to explore the many roads untraveled... until we each find our true path.

 

[teacher]

Since the thread question is "What's your attitude about Islam", Let's talk about dogs and cats fornicating. Which is what I thought was going to happen next until Gandhi posted the following

-

I don't know what you're getting excited about. That was an example that I quoted from GySgt. Kind of a "What Not To Do" kind of thing.

Oh thank god. I thought you were getting all violent on me there. Hence the dogs and cats thing there big G. Can I get one of those big strange symbols you give me sometimes. Haven't got one in a while and I'm feeling all forlorn like. You know like when your dog doesn't come home?

PS. Word on the street is you cracked a smile last week.

 

[Imudman]

Never mind. I misread something Surenderer wrote.

 

[teacher]

For many reasons, I have composed and adhere to a personal essence of spirituality. I believe that the maxim "Seek and ye shall find" invites us all to explore the many roads untraveled... until we each find our true path.

You're drunk aren't you?

 

[MSgt]

"Over 9,000 in Iraq, and over 3,000 in Afghanistan. Civilians mind you."

Gandhi..you continue to prove yourself as an integrity violator. Your posts are becoming worthless. This is the BS I'm talking about. These numbers are completely malicious and are very "Micheal Moore" of you. Military caused deaths, number a small fraction of what you like to glorify. The thousands you speak of is a result of punishments inflicted by their own Muslim brethren. We have come to call them the insurgency. You've heard of them right? I know you know this, yet you continue to spew whatever further's your soap box, even though that soap box is built upon lies and manipulations. Your tactics rely on half facts and people's ignorance to believe it and they make your stance worthless.

"I expect that level greatness from my own nation."

This is more BS. This statement shows how little you know about your country. You have greatness from your country, but what you really want is perfection just like you expect the world to be a utopia and for America to take the abuse while turning the other cheek. You welcome any mistake so that you can carry on with your "holier than thou" attitude. You offer no solutions, only weakness. You say things like "you don't have a problem with killing only the terrorists", but this is just a guise to make yourself acceptable. The truth about you is that if zero civillians have been killed you would be voicing against killing terrorists in the interests of capturing them so that they can have true trials. Your kind are never satisfied and we shouldn't even try. You should be thankful that their are other men that make the tough decisions that you have the luxury of condemning. Our country wasn't built on turning the other cheek. Countries like Sweden and France have built their country on that premice and they have payed for it throughout history. They rely on greater nations to come free them from their tyrannies and aggressors. Like so many countries they lack any kind of real military, because they live under the comfort that America will always be there to defend freedoms and it's allies. They rely on America and bleed it of it's military resources for it's security and you should be thankful that you don't belong to a country like that and you should be thankful that your security does not rely on your own actions and mentality.

"If you want an apology, apologize. If you do not want brutality, do not show brutality"

This is just the most naive thing I have seen you write. We are not dealing with honorable people. Our apologies to any civillians that are killed come in the form of our billions of dollars spent furthering our training and technology in precise tactics to prevent said deaths. When civillians allow themselves to be used as shields, they are sealing their fate with the enemy. When civillians have homes that are co-located next to buildings that store ammunition or is a safe haven to the enemy, their houses will suffer the damage of the target. We can only do our best to minimize civillian casualties. The enemy does their best to inflict civillian casualties. Intelligent people around the world know the exhaustive steps we take and the exhaustive repairations given afterward. This is our apology, which is much more than what you seem to want. You want to see a polotician standing in front of a podium and offering apologies for civillian casualties that are inflicted while targetting terrorists. This is exactly the type of propaganda that Mullahs in the Middle East use and you would give them exactly what they want. What you see as "courage", they see as weakness and as groveling. It's a chance for them to show their people that even we think we are wrong and that "Allah" is truly punishing us infidels.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

"Over 9,000 in Iraq, and over 3,000 in Afghanistan. Civilians mind you."

Gandhi..you continue to prove yourself as an integrity violator. Your posts are becoming worthless. This is the BS I'm talking about. These numbers are completely malicious and are very "Micheal Moore" of you. Military caused deaths, number a small fraction of what you like to glorify. The thousands you speak of is a result of punishments inflicted by their own Muslim brethren. We have come to call them the insurgency. You've heard of them right? I know you know this, yet you continue to spew whatever further's your soap box, even though that soap box is built upon lies and manipulations. Your tactics rely on half facts and people's ignorance to believe it and they make your stance worthless.

Excuse me? The number quoted EVERYWHERE is 25,000 civilian deaths. If you read an artice about it, 37 percent came from US/Coalition forces, 36 percent from criminal attacks, 9 percent anti occupation forces, and 11 percent from "unknown agents."

25,000 multiplied by .37(that's 37%) = 9,250. I said 9,000. I CUT YOU SOME SLACK. Don't charge me up with that bullshit about me lying or my stance being worthless. There are people TO THIS DAY that still spew "estimates" of hundreds of thousands. Wow.

:damn

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1121806344352_117215544/?hub=World

"I expect that level greatness from my own nation."

This is more BS. This statement shows how little you know about your country. You have greatness from your country, but what you really want is perfection just like you expect the world to be a utopia and for America to take the abuse while turning the other cheek. You welcome any mistake so that you can carry on with your "holier than thou" attitude. You offer no solutions, only weakness. You say things like "you don't have a problem with killing only the terrorists", but this is just a guise to make yourself acceptable. The truth about you is that if zero civillians have been killed you would be voicing against killing terrorists in the interests of capturing them so that they can have true trials. Your kind are never satisfied and we shouldn't even try. You should be thankful that their are other men that make the tough decisions that you have the luxury of condemning. Our country wasn't built on turning the other cheek. Countries like Sweden and France have built their country on that premice and they have payed for it throughout history. They rely on greater nations to come free them from their tyrannies and aggressors. Like so many countries they lack any kind of real military, because they live under the comfort that America will always be there to defend freedoms and it's allies. They rely on America and bleed it of it's military resources for it's security and you should be thankful that you don't belong to a country like that and you should be thankful that your security does not rely on your own actions and mentality.

No war will ever be without civilian casualties. Other than that, the above paragraph was personal attacks and other nonsense against "people like me."

"If you want an apology, apologize. If you do not want brutality, do not show brutality"

This is just the most naive thing I have seen you write. We are not dealing with honorable people. Our apologies to any civillians that are killed come in the form of our billions of dollars spent furthering our training and technology in precise tactics to prevent said deaths. When civillians allow themselves to be used as shields, they are sealing their fate with the enemy. When civillians have homes that are co-located next to buildings that store ammunition or is a safe haven to the enemy, their houses will suffer the damage of the target. We can only do our best to minimize civillian casualties. The enemy does their best to inflict civillian casualties. Intelligent people around the world know the exhaustive steps we take and the exhaustive repairations given afterward. This is our apology, which is much more than what you seem to want. You want to see a polotician standing in front of a podium and offering apologies for civillian casualties that are inflicted while targetting terrorists. This is exactly the type of propaganda that Mullahs in the Middle East use and you would give them exactly what they want. What you see as "courage", they see as weakness and as groveling. It's a chance for them to show their people that even we think we are wrong and that "Allah" is truly punishing us infidels.

What do they gain when a US politician apologizing FOR MISTAKES that they have made? What kind of propaganda do they get out of something like that?

"Look, the Great Satan admits he killed innocents on accident and offers his sympathy and condolences to their families... THE BASTARDS ALLLALALALALALALALALALA!!!"

 

[MSgt]

"Look, the Great Satan admits he killed innocents on accident and offers his sympathy and condolences to their families... THE BASTARDS ALLLALALALALALALALALALA!!!"

This is exactly it, except the phrasing would be more malicious, manipulative, and half presented. You really should try to get a recording of some Al-Jazeer television. You would be surprised with what they do with our "apologies". Every embarrasement caused by Army National Guard Reservists, every "Koran flushing" by Army personnel, every American protest, and every politician that gives a speech on how wrong we are for our attempts with Iraq, is aired for all to see......and nothing else. We are truly painted as the demons walking the Earth. It is propaganda at it's greatest.

Here are the Problems with methodology:
-numbers are pulled from all media sources - to include ones known to be inaccurate (Al Jazeera for example).
-numbers are including all deaths - there is no telling if it is from normal crime, terrorist attack, or military. It is unfair to blame all of the casualties on the military when the count doesn't distinguish deaths by source. It is also unfair to say that there should be no crime if the U.S. had perfect control of the country. That type of control does not exist in any country - certainly not the U.S., any European country, or developed/undeveloped country. In reality, the number is not that high when you compare the number of deaths that occur daily around the world in major cities from crime alone. I bet the number of deaths in NY City or Chicago a day is about the same as the number of deaths in Baghdad. Baghdad might even have less, but the media isn't focused on deaths anywhere but in Iraq and Afghanistan, because that is where the money is.

Your numbers are not accurate. The military gets numbers from local hospitals with information that tells us whether or not the injured were near a US military target or not. The Iraqi doctors are very forth right with the information and we are able to tell how most likely they were injured. The news media does not make this kind of tally, as they only report the dead and what they believe is the cause based on civillian acounts - never mind any motives that might be behind said accusations. The sources of your numbers are less than credible and if they are credible, they are merely estimating. The military does not publish the numbers, because it is against policy. I can't even get a total number. (I just made a call and found that out.) All I can offer is that for the 8 months I was in Iraq last year, the number of civillian deaths numbered low and we were in the Al-Anbar Province, which is the most violent. This is why when I hear or see "9,000" deaths, I dismiss them as fabrication or over exxagerations, because many sources do not categorize the deaths correcly.

I am on leave, but I have a Captain oin the admin side looking into getting me some numbers that would reflect a more accurate count if she can get them at all. For all I know the numbers are in the thousands, but I know they aren't as high as nine. If I'm able to get the military estimates, I will give them to you. I'm honest and I will present them as I receive them. You can, of course, believe them or not, but at least consider their credibility over websites whose sources are questionable.

 

[mikhail]

See the problem is debates like this will always get turned toward Iraq.I'm not particularly supportive of any religion. I don't need it.

 

[Surenderer]

This is exactly it, except the phrasing would be more malicious, manipulative, and half presented. You really should try to get a recording of some Al-Jazeer television. You would be surprised with what they do with our "apologies". Every embarrasement caused by Army National Guard Reservists, every "Koran flushing" by Army personnel, every American protest, and every politician that gives a speech on how wrong we are for our attempts with Iraq, is aired for all to see......and nothing else. We are truly painted as the demons walking the Earth. It is propaganda at it's greatest

GySgt,

Whats the difference between what Al Jezzera does and Fox News only showing the Mullah's who preach anti-American rhetoric and war but not showing the ones who preach tolerance and respect for all beings? the latter far outnumber the former but which is seen on T.V. more? This thread is actually a perfect example because it has shown that when people think of Islam all they think about is the M.E. when actually that is less than 13% of the worlds Muslims....they think that Islam is uncompatible with Democracy when that also is a lie.Where do they get these ideas?Why are the people so uninformed? Who misleads them? why?

 

[argexpat]

Aleem, why do you think it is that terrorists do the things they do? Is it mostly the US support for Israel? What other factors, if any, do you think lead to terrorist actions?

This is why:

"The most provocative and widely read study is Robert Pape's book Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism. Pape, a military historian and professor at the University of Chicago, catalogued every terrorist suicide bombing from 1983 to 2003—in all, 315 attacks carried out by 462 bombers. He concludes that, except for a couple of dozen random incidents, these bombings were elements of various coordinated campaigns—involving 18 different organizations over a 20-year period—all of which had in common 'a specific secular and strategic goal: to compel democracies to withdraw military forces from the terrorists' national homeland.'"

 

[teacher]

Whats the difference between what Al Jezzera does and Fox News only showing the Mullah's who preach anti-American rhetoric and war but not showing the ones who preach tolerance and respect for all beings?

Al Jezzera flat out lies. They are a propaganda outlet at best.

the latter far outnumber the former but which is seen on T.V. more? This thread is actually a perfect example because it has shown that when people

Say some people when you go thee bro. Don't lump me in with the stupid and ignorant. I belong with the insensative and annoying.

think of Islam all they think about is the M.E. when actually that is less than 13% of the worlds Muslims....they think that Islam is uncompatible with Democracy when that also is a lie.Where do they get these ideas?Why are the people so uninformed? Who misleads them? why?

Ever see the ratings of American idol versus Meet the Press?

 

[Fantasea]

Lady Urethra, Let's put aside our dispute about "Feminism", Ok ?

I'll talk so neutrally and so sensibly .

I can remember that you said : " The God does not exist ", Ok , Let's talk a little about that .

Regardless Islam, Christianity, Judaism or any other religion .

Can anybody when he sees a car (for example) claim that the car came to the existence spontaneously ? Can anybody say that ?
Can anybody claim that a train was manufactured by nobody ? Or that suddenly and by chance a train on rails existed ?

A chair indicates the presence of a carpenter, Clothes indicate the presence of a tailor, A shoe indicates the presence of a shoe-maker and so on .

Thirsty indicates the presence of water, The sense of injustice indicates the presence of the justice .

Well, I study medicine and i advice you Lady to read the anatomy of human body, I'm sure you'll get stunned .

You'll find yourself in front of a highly-specialized highly-organized highly-complicated systems interacting with one another in an incomparable and matchless harmony and accord to enable the body to see, hear, sense, feel, walk, run, eat, grow, sleep, marry, get pegnant, lactate, cry, laugh, breathe .......................and foremost think and learn .

If the mind does not accept the rough things(as car,train,clothes...) to be self-existent, How can he accept the self-exitence for the human body ?

Not only the body but also those things beyond man's might as animals, plants,mountains, seas, rivers, clouds, the sun, the moon, stars......etc.
The presence of all these things beside human being indicates the presence of the superior creator .

The chance or anything else can not create even a fly, Only the superior creator can do .

Objections to a creator rise in those who do not accept that which they cannot fully understand and which appears to impose some obligations or some limitations on freedoms which they are loath to accept.

Many become sufficiently comfortable with their stance that they will no longer do anything which may increase their understanding or clarify issues.

 

[point]

My attitude toward Islam doesn't differ from the one I have toward Christianity. Since I am an atheist I view all religions sceptically, especially those religions whose members refer to scriptures which are said to be inspired by God.
The problem is that "Holy Scriptures" such as the Koran are very old, so those scriptures often contradict to modern ideas of human rights. By the way, that applies to the Bible too.
The commandments and rules of the Koran are those of a patriarchal society. I don't like the way woman are treated in Islamic societies.
I prefer to use reason and critical thinking instead of refering to "Holy Scriptures".

 

[teacher]

I am no native speaker. Should be: English is not my native language.

If you find any mistakes in my posts. Should be: 26x world champs is a big lier.

 

[teacher]

Can't fool ol' point can we?

 

[Mickyjaystoned]

All religions have been created by our extra terrestrial master to enslave humanity in a series of restraints and dogmas, why anyone would give up their mind to some stupid religion is beyond me.

I do however approve of the main Jist of Islam, a search for knowledge and respect, however the knowledge obtained and our own potential will always be subject to restraints and beliefs, very much like The Matrix we will not be able to become the one unless we destroy all beliefs and constraints.