What's your attitude toward Islam ?

[teacher]

Salaam Malaekim.

Gesudheit.

 

[cnredd]

Radical Islam is mudering people all over the world.

Thousands of innocent lives are being lost on both sides.

Fallen soldiers and terrorists die in their respectives causes.

But oh yeah....peace be upon you...

 

[Surenderer]

Cute.....somehow I have become the spokesman for terrorists. I have denounced them, said they didnt represent what Islam was about yet that doesnt seem to matter. Dont insult me by saying that hatred is one sided in this issue. It seems that because I am Muslim and I have dislike for U.S. foreign policy then I must be waiting to kill someone. Too bad I overestimated the intelligence on this board of some. I never said anything "terrorist like" or pro-suicide bombers or anything like that yet I have been treated with hostility and disrespect. I dont even know if you even realize your hostility or disrespect towards me. And Teacher....I do apologize for my earlier post.......I wrote it out of anger which is never the proper way to react...I felt attacked so I attacked back...again I apologize. It's sad I guess......but it's been nice sharing ideas and thoughts with most of you


I still wish peace upon us all
Surenderer

 

[MSgt]

American foreign policy is the same all over the world. It is only in the Middle East that we have such a barbaric "cult" like existence masquerading as Islam. It is true oppression that is enforced by Clerics and dictators and rich royal Arab families. It is all blamed on Israel and both sides continue to comletely exhaust and whine about the "holy land". America is just caught up in the middle of it. Everything else that a person likes to bring into it is total BS and only serves to confuse what is actually very simple to understand. The problem with facing people that would resort to beheadings and terror tactics against civillians of America, the UK, Spain, etc., and the Middle East alike, is that it is only bandaid. The true problem to solve is the oppression which thrives and is glorified by Middle Eastern leaders that only wish to gain more power over it's people and continue to finger America as the source for their predicaments.

 

[Tashah]

I do apologize for my earlier post.......I wrote it out of anger which is never the proper way to react...I felt attacked so I attacked back...again I apologize. It's sad I guess......but it's been nice sharing ideas and thoughts with most of you.

Dear Surenderer,
I for one, appreciate your thoughts and input to Debate Politics. Although we have never touched (a metaphorical phrase), you are always encouraged from this quarter to put forth viewpoints from your unique perspective. As an Israeli, I also possess a unique perspective. I am accorded the freedom here to agree or disagree with other posters and to defend my choices. In this light then, my input, your input, and that of every other participant... is valuable and valued.

I admire what you wrote above, for it is not an easy thing to admit when we are wrong. That took an inner courage and honesty... higher-attributes that are becoming a rare commodity these days.

Perhaps someday you and I will cross political swords. Perhaps the converse will prevail. No matter which future paths we traverse, I am confident they will be explored in civility and honesty.

Shalom ~ Sala'am,
Tashah

 

[akyron]

have been treated with hostility and disrespect. I dont even know if you even realize your hostility or disrespect towards me.

Probably not since in this forum hostility and disrespect often come with the debates. It usually takes 2-5 posts then then someone gets mad and starts name calling. Do not think you are getting treated any worse than anyone else. It is a thin line between good debate and angry debate and a couple of people roam around both sides. Most if not every active poster has been called something or other at one time. For some it is easy to say just about anything from behind the anonymity of a pseudonym and an on line personae to someone who might otherwise kick your ass in real life for some of the things voiced in this forum.
Dont be so thin skinned about it and bring it to the forum anyway.

So what makes better emergency toiletpaper? The Koran or the Bible and why?

 

[MSgt]

I guess it would depend on what religion an individual practices and what book he has available. For myself...I like to print out liberal commentaries and keep them handy for such occasions.

 

[cnredd]

Probably not since in this forum hostility and disrespect often come with the debates. It usually takes 2-5 posts then then someone gets mad and starts name calling. Do not think you are getting treated any worse than anyone else. It is a thin line between good debate and angry debate and a couple of people roam around both sides. Most if not every active poster has been called something or other at one time. For some it is easy to say just about anything from behind the anonymity of a pseudonym and an on line personae to someone who might otherwise kick your ass in real life for some of the things voiced in this forum.
Dont be so thin skinned about it and bring it to the forum anyway.

Can you inmagine a convention where everyone here at debatepolitics.com goes to a hotel for the weekend? What a bloodfest THAT would be! Billo Really would come out looking like Holyfield's ear. Everyone would take turns smacking the "smarm" out of him....

Everybody but me...I'd be busy trying to get Tasrah up in my hotel room...

 

[Dezaad]

Today in the New York Times :

Mr. Sharon described the settler youths who wrote "Muhammad Is a Pig" as "extremist gangs who are trying to terrorize Israeli society and tear it to pieces through violence against Jews and Arabs, and [through] offending Muslims and violating their symbols by thuggery and disobedience."

It's time the Arab-Muslim world talked to its Islamo-fascists, suicide "martyrs" and hate-spewing preachers the same way.
​

This is indeed quite refreshing from one like Sharon. It would be equally refreshing from the equivalent leaders in the world of Islam.

 

[Surenderer]

Today in the New York Times :

Mr. Sharon described the settler youths who wrote "Muhammad Is a Pig" as "extremist gangs who are trying to terrorize Israeli society and tear it to pieces through violence against Jews and Arabs, and [through] offending Muslims and violating their symbols by thuggery and disobedience."

It's time the Arab-Muslim world talked to its Islamo-fascists, suicide "martyrs" and hate-spewing preachers the same way.
​

This is indeed quite refreshing from one like Sharon. It would be equally refreshing from the equivalent leaders in the world of Islam.

It's there......you just gotta do your homework yourself and stop asking others to do it for you:

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php




peace

 

[cnredd]

It's there......you just gotta do your homework yourself and stop asking others to do it for you:

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

peace

Excellent reading!

You know I'm gonna trash you in about 10 seconds ...but I give give credit where credit is due....that is homework EVERYONE should read.(I didn't read them all, but more than half; especially the specific persons at the bottom...

But(here it comes)....

I think a large percentage of that is lip-service...It's right up there with someone saying they are a good Christian and then goes home and beats their wife.

As with most cases, actions do speak louder than words...Reading a condemnation from CAIR, and then finding out that they had finincial ties to terrorists organizations, pretty much negates their condemnation.

Last Wednesday, The Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Homeland Security held the second in a series of hearings aimed at examining Saudi Arabia’s role in exporting Islamic extremism abroad. The hearing, titled “Two Years After 9/11: Connecting the Dots,” was focused on the prevalence of the radical Wahhabi Islamic sect among Muslim political groups in the U.S. CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad and Chairman Omar Ahmed were invited to testify at the hearing, but both declined to attend. In their absence – and in front of their empty witness chair - the committee heard compelling evidence that Saudi Arabia financially and ideologically supports a network of American organizations that act as the defenders, financiers, and front groups of international terrorists. CAIR has been a major player in this network since its creation in 1994, with a particularly soft spot for the suicide-bombing death squads of Hamas.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=9981

Of course, they're not going to SAY PUBLICLY that they support terrorism and then open up their financial books to show how...they'd be thrown in jail in about 30 seconds....so they say what everyone wants to hear, and then covertly go about doing the opposite.

Dezaad said...
This is indeed quite refreshing from one like Sharon. It would be equally refreshing from the equivalent leaders in the world of Islam.

I think it would be even MORE refreshing for the groups that you have mentioned to show ACTIONS against terrorism, and not just say it.

 

[Stherngntlmn]

How do I feel about islam? Hmm... let me consider that for a second... I got no problem with somebody's right to practice religion, even if their religion dislikes my culture, what I do have a problem with is when the religion actually preaches violence on my culture. So my question is... what does islam think about me and my culture?

“As for the captives, the amir (ruler) has the choice of taking the most beneficial action of four possibilities: the first to put them to death by cutting their necks; the second, to enslave them and apply the laws of slavery regarding their sale and manumission; the third, to ransom them in exchange for goods or prisoners; and fourth, to show favor to them and pardon them. Allah, may he be exalted, says, 'When you encounter those (infidels) who deny (the Truth=Islam) then strike (their) necks' (Qur'an sura 47, verse 4)”....Abu’l-Hasan al-Mawardi, al-Ahkam as-Sultaniyyah." (The Laws of Islamic Governance, trans. by Dr. Asadullah Yate, (London), Ta-Ha Publishers Ltd., 1996, p. 192. )

8:12- “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

47:4- “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”

9:123: “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

2:191- “Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out.”

2:193- “Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah”

9:29- "Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, (Christian and Jews) who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute (Zizziya tax) by hand, being inferior.”

 

[Radical Ron]

Take a look at the world around you. Sure there may not be a God, but most people can't think for themselves, why do you think the social fabric of the United States is becoming decrepid.

 

[Surenderer]

Excellent reading!

You know I'm gonna trash you in about 10 seconds ...but I give give credit where credit is due....that is homework EVERYONE should read.(I didn't read them all, but more than half; especially the specific persons at the bottom...

But(here it comes)....

I think a large percentage of that is lip-service...It's right up there with someone saying they are a good Christian and then goes home and beats their wife.

As with most cases, actions do speak louder than words...Reading a condemnation from CAIR, and then finding out that they had finincial ties to terrorists organizations, pretty much negates their condemnation.

Last Wednesday, The Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Homeland Security held the second in a series of hearings aimed at examining Saudi Arabia’s role in exporting Islamic extremism abroad. The hearing, titled “Two Years After 9/11: Connecting the Dots,” was focused on the prevalence of the radical Wahhabi Islamic sect among Muslim political groups in the U.S. CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad and Chairman Omar Ahmed were invited to testify at the hearing, but both declined to attend. In their absence – and in front of their empty witness chair - the committee heard compelling evidence that Saudi Arabia financially and ideologically supports a network of American organizations that act as the defenders, financiers, and front groups of international terrorists. CAIR has been a major player in this network since its creation in 1994, with a particularly soft spot for the suicide-bombing death squads of Hamas.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=9981

Of course, they're not going to SAY PUBLICLY that they support terrorism and then open up their financial books to show how...they'd be thrown in jail in about 30 seconds....so they say what everyone wants to hear, and then covertly go about doing the opposite.

Dezaad said...
This is indeed quite refreshing from one like Sharon. It would be equally refreshing from the equivalent leaders in the world of Islam.

I think it would be even MORE refreshing for the groups that you have mentioned to show ACTIONS against terrorism, and not just say it.

Well the argument could be made that Bush and Co. have more ties to terrorists organizations than C.A.I.R. does but I wont go there.....Actions like what though? more killing? Is it fair on one hand to say that Muslims live by violence then complain that the 99% who aren't violent should become violent? It was said that Muslims don't condemn those among their ranks that support terrorist activity and I have shown how that isn't true. How can moderate Muslims who preach against such acts change those whom only have revenge and death on their minds? For every one mosque that preaches anti-western rhetoric there are 5000 that preach that judgment is the Creators job not ours. Unfortunately the 1 in 5000 is used to portray the whole religion. Now this isn't just an Islamic thing though.....many in the M.E. use Abu Grahib to depict all U.S. soldiers which is equally wrong also (Heck I was even a soldier there) Why do you think those guys are not telling the truth? Do you have any evidence that they have said one thing and done another? Surely you know that Muslims cringe more than non-Muslims do when a terrorist attack happens because we know that people judge us by their(the terrorists) actions....do you think we like that?.


Peace

 

[cnredd]

How can moderate Muslims who preach against such acts change those whom only have revenge and death on their minds?

If you're saying, "What else can anybody do against these people?", then George Bush should be commended for doing SOMETHING.

Everybody is more than happy to say why he's wrong, but no one comes up with an alternative.

Change their ideology?...Look at your quote again...you sound like you admit that it's not possible. Can you name another way other than force?

Bush and the last four Presidents before him did nothing until 9/11 opened (almost)everyone's eyes.(Except Reagan's shot a Libya). For people who want to continue the "do-nothing" foreign policy that made this whole thing escalate in the first place are having trouble seeing the forest through the trees...

 

[Stherngntlmn]

(Except Reagan's shot a Libya)

That's why they called him Ronny "Ray" "Gun" momar blows up a disco... Ronny Blows up his son.


Man I miss real republicans.

 

[cnredd]

That's why they called him Ronny "Ray" "Gun" momar blows up a disco... Ronny Blows up his son.


Man I miss real republicans.

The best was the news conference Reagan had...saying "We will not target Qaddafi."...as the planes were dropping bombs on everybody in his family except him.

Reagan could take this whole terrorism thing and make the best lemonade you've ever had in your life.

Bush has the right idea...but he ain't no Reagan.

Clinton just sprayed the piles of **** with Pledge and sold it as lemonade.

 

[Datamonkee]

The best was the news conference Reagan had...saying "We will not target Qaddafi."...as the planes were dropping bombs on everybody in his family except him.

Reagan could take this whole terrorism thing and make the best lemonade you've ever had in your life.

Bush has the right idea...but he ain't no Reagan.

Clinton just sprayed the piles of **** with Pledge and sold it as lemonade.

Personaly, I am of the "Nuke 'em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure" (Bill Paxton - ALIENS) mindset.

 

[teacher]

Denouncing terrorism is fine. But can anyone come up with examples of Muslims policing themselves? Turning in their own? A Muslim "March" in D.C. crying out for the violence to end? An open invitation to their religious services? Categorically publicly stating the TARGETING of CHILDREN by ANYONE, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME is unacceptable always for ever no matter what the past or actions of their enemy with no strings attached?

 

[lamaror]

Hi Teacher,

Seems like all we seem to be hearing is Bushshit prejudice. Moslems are bad because they are Moslems. someone told me that Bush and Osama Ben Ladin are cousins. Maybe Bush is a Moslem pretenting to be a Fascist Hitler loving Christian. what do ya think? :doh :spin:

 

[Surenderer]

Denouncing terrorism is fine. But can anyone come up with examples of Muslims policing themselves? Turning in their own? A Muslim "March" in D.C. crying out for the violence to end? An open invitation to their religious services? Categorically publicly stating the TARGETING of CHILDREN by ANYONE, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME is unacceptable always for ever no matter what the past or actions of their enemy with no strings attached?

Muslims arent Madeline Albright you know:


"I think it is a very hard choice. But the price-we think the price is worth it."
-U.S. Secretary of State Madeline Albright, when asked about U.S. sanctions killing half a million Iraqi children.
60 Minutes, 5/12/96



killing children is against Islam and nowhere in the Koran.....so why should Muslims apologize? for what? something that isnt there? "This [terrorism] is not Islam any more than the Ku Klux Klan is Christianity. No concessions can be made to either mindset, which have more in common with one another than they do with the religions they claim to represent." Muslim nations have not responded to the attack as the terrorists planned.(by joining in) Instead, they have united behind the teachings of Islam--which are clearly against killing innocent people. The viciousness of the terrorists is left standing in stark contrast. However it remains to be seen if the U.S. is helping or hurting O.B.L's cause by creating fictionary wars and putting all Muslims under the terrorist label. As far as marching against terrorism....does the marches in Iraq against the U.S. invasion count? . Many Muslims and Non-Muslims see that as a terrorist act....(oh and we saw what good those marches did :roll: )Terrorism isnt something that only happens to you Teacher



peace

 

[teacher]

[

QUOTE=Surenderer]
killing children is against Islam and nowhere in the Koran.....so why should Muslims apologize?

Wasn't asking for an apology.

for what? something that isnt there? "This [terrorism] is not Islam any more than the Ku Klux Klan is Christianity.

Fair enough. Let me say it like this. Why aren't countries were terrorists originate doing more?

No concessions can be made to either mindset, which have more in common with one another than they do with the religions they claim to represent."

True. I'm Christian but but get so fed up with the selfrightious I can't go to church.

Muslim nations have not responded to the attack as the terrorists planned.(by joining in) Instead, they have united behind the teachings of Islam--which are clearly against killing innocent people. The viciousness of the terrorists is left standing in stark contrast. However it remains to be seen if the U.S. is helping or hurting O.B.L's cause by creating fictionary wars and putting all Muslims under the terrorist label. As far as marching against terrorism....does the marches in Iraq against the U.S. invasion count? . Many Muslims and Non-Muslims see that as a terrorist act....(oh and we saw what good those marches did :roll: )Terrorism isnt something that only happens to you Teacher

I'm just saying that if the Muslims of the world did more that could be seen and proven it would shift this focus on religion to where it needs to be. On terrorists.

Let me rephrase the one question I care most about. Put aside history, religion, who did what to whom first. Why can't you denounce the TARGETING of CHILDREN? Just not doing that brings hatred heaped upon you by many. I've said before. Until the terrorists stop TARGETING CHILDREN I will never consider their position at all. And what ever any one does to kill them I'm behind. Beyond that all else is moot. (I love that word). I once used it 5 times in one day without trying.

I know terrorism does not only happen to me. The innocent Palestinians are much more affected by it than me. Eh?

I don't look at this religiously or nationally Surrenderer. I look at it morally.

 

[teacher]

Hi Teacher,

Seems like all we seem to be hearing is Bushshit prejudice. Moslems are bad because they are Moslems. someone told me that Bush and Osama Ben Ladin are cousins. Maybe Bush is a Moslem pretenting to be a Fascist Hitler loving Christian. what do ya think? :doh :spin:

Joke? Bait? Please clairify that statement on Muslims.

Muslims are bad because they are Muslims? Were all Christians during the crusades bad? Catholics during the Spanish Inquisition? Southerners during the Civil war? Bush may not be the brightest but I feel he honestly thinks he's doing the right thing. Where would you imply that I hate Muslims. I hate TA GETTERS OF CHILDREN. I think the Koran is being misused. Just like the bible has been. But we got by all that. Now it's their turn. Anyone that thinks all words of any religious test are directly from the mouth of their God is deluded. The contradictions alone prove texts are fallible. Much text was wrote to justify to writers behavior.

Surrenderer. Condense the Korans basic message in one sentence.

For my self and the bible: Be good.

 

[MSgt]

"As far as marching against terrorism....does the marches in Iraq against the U.S. invasion count?"

You must be referring to the Sunni that are no longer the "favored" arabs over the majority of Iraq and refused to participate in the publicly "everyone is equal" elections. Now they are mad, because they don't have the representation they would like in the new government despite being thrown seats in the interest of a whole Iraq. Like most on this site...if you are going to bring up some facts, bring them all up.

Here is another fact. The Sunni, the Shiite's and the Kurds have been murdering each other's civillians for centuries. What we are seeing today is nothing new. The Sunni have had Saddam as their protector and he enjoyed murdering Kurds. The Shiites were treated as second class citizens. Now that Saddam is gone, all hell has broken loose. So, along with their BS against Jews, they can't even get along with each other and the Sunni (Arabs) is the aggressor. It's simple gang warfare and temper tantrums.

If one wants to find proof that their is hope in the Middle East for a peaceful cohabitation, one only has to look towards the Kurds. They live peacefully and without governance. It's the Sunni and the Shiites that have their heads straite up their asses and America is caught up in the middle.

 

[lamaror]

People who target children are worse than Dogs. I don't care if the Person is
Moslem, Christian, Hindu etc.

If a man or group of men attacks me, I will do my best to kill him or them. I don't care if they are Serbs, Arabs, or English men.

Bushshit means that Bush has lied and lied, and we still don't know why we attacked Iraq. 75% of what bush says when he speaks in public is SPIN and lies. :doh :spin: Bush's only purpose is to deceive us and con us.