What is the solution to mass shootings in the United States? (1 Viewer)

[Vox]

Most all of us have read, watched and listened to stories about the mass shooting in Parkland, Florida. Media has flogged this story hard. They've interviewed countless people, many of them politicians.

One thing I have yet to hear any member of the media ask is "Why does this continue to happen?" One thing I have yet to hear any politico say is "First we must understand why these mass shootings continue to occur in the United States."

The press isn't asking why it continues to happen. The press is asking "What are you going to do about it?" As a result politicians attempt to answer to "What" question while either not having the balls or the brains to suggest that the question we must first address is "Why".

What are the root causes? Why does it happen and continue to happen? We don't really know. Until we know why we are just going to continue to throw mud on the wall and hope some of it sticks.

The only answer is better school security.

Apparently the latest school had very little in the way of security.......they were complacent, careless and overconfident.

That's history.

It will cost money, but so will the wall of security at the Mexican border.

Carefully selected and trained volunteers from school staff must be combined with police officers and private security officers.

Private security should man the access points and those access points must be hardened and secure and have metal detectors. Nobody gets in until found to be legit.

Nobody should know which teachers/school staff are armed. They must be a last line of defense and kept secret.

Everybody who gets in must be checked with a metal detector before being allowed into the restricted zone and that restricted zone must be securely locked and guarded by an armed guard who is INSIDE the secure zone.

That's the only way to stop this and I don't see why we're not doing it already.

Any notions of getting rid of guns are just fantasies. Guns are here to stay. We need to move forward after accepting that fact........otherwise nothing gets done.

Oh.......your question is......why do people want to kill each other?

Old problem.......nobody knows.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

That (bolded above) is, no doubt, true but is not in any way a valid reason for making (transforming?) that into a federal responsibility. If cities, counties and states would rather let nuts roam free (to save money?) and hope for the best that is their right but to try to blame "the nation" for their refusal to deal with reality is insane.

I find it telling that the Governor of FL now wants to shift blame to the FBI who had 2 (maybe 3) reports of "weirdness" on their latest school shooter but sees little (no?) state/local fault in the 20 (to 39) local LEO calls not resulting in any criminal charges or forced mental evaluations. It would seem that actions deemed serious enough to expell someone multiple (3?) times from school just might warrant placing a flag in the NICS BGC database no matter what that local cost might be.

It is simply not a federal government responsibility to deal with each and every local nut case using the "logic" that sufficient (more?) federal resources exist to deal with these local problem folks so it should no longer be a state/local responsibility. BTW, did you report your nutty and intimidating neighbor to the FBI?

I think Scott is doing 2 things:
1) Trying to get people to blame someone other than him or his state government.
2) Picking up the right wing / Republican mantra that the FBI is a corrupt "deep state" agency.

How convenient.

In my opinion, this was not a Federal problem. The FBI had no cause to go after that guy. He probably should have been in a state mental facility with his right to possess firearms restricted or revoked, but the FBI had no authority to do that which I know of. "state mental facilities" have been largely defunded as states looked to cut costs. In this case, I think those cuts bit back.

 

[SirGareth]

The only solution I can see is never going to happen, would take potentially decades, and would be nigh-on impossible in terms of logistics (it would also be a solution to gun violence generally):

Repeal the 2nd Amd. Ban all firearms. Require all lawful owners to turn over guns. Investigate any who claim theirs were "stolen". Nationwide sweeps for unlawful guns (unlikely to have a constitutional method of doing so - martial law, perhaps). Massive increase in shipping security, particularly at our docks.



Well, obviously you can stop reading at the first sentence. The 2nd is going nowhere.

It would also take quite a long time to truly work since there are who knows how many illegally owned guns in the country. They can last quite a long time. So even if all lawful owners turned in all their guns, there would be a situation where only the bad guys have guns. They tend to hold onto them and only dispose of them after use in a crime.





The problem is that it really IS the guns. Our rates of gun violence compare to broken countries. Yet we're first world. The richest. All you have to do is plot gun ownership per capita against gun violence per capita.

View attachment 67228722

It even translates to the state level:

View attachment 67228723

It's generally an utterly moot issue, however, because nobody is going to be repealing the 2nd. Amd. Very little can actually be done now. Some things can be done, but if the subject is "how do we stop this", well, it's probably far too late.

I'd certainly support reasonable measures aimed at keeping guns out of dangerous hands, but we shouldn't kid ourselves. That'll make a dent maybe, but only a dent.

Your charts are both fake and meaningless, when you plot "gun deaths" you are including deaths by suicide which strangely occur most often in countries that ban guns.

While Leftists love the concept of "assisted suicide," they aren't much on do-it-yourself methods by which the gun is one of the least messy and least public.

I once witnessed (and rescued) a very young Japanese girl who jumped off the platform at Nakano station in Tokyo. Her timing was bad and it allowed me time to scrape her up off the tracks before the train ran us both over, but it would have been a messy gunless death...whoopee.

Your charts are both fake (incomplete) and meaningless...shame on you.

 

[cuban smokes]

What is the solution to mass-shootings in the United States? The solution in part may alarm you, and it should.

Gun ownership bonds. You have the right to own guns in America if you can afford the guns. So raising the cost of guns by having prospective gun owners post costly peace bonds in order to own them will reduce the number of legal owners who could snap, 'go postal' and kill folks in large numbers. That coupled with vigorous remote electronic detection of illegal guns in the possession of criminals will reduce access to the population and raise the barriers to carrying guns in public for nefarious purposes.

Rewriting the Second Amendment to limit gun ownership to responsible citizens, to limit the numbers and types of guns which can be legally owned by an individual of sound mind, good character and the age of majority. Also to once again tie gun ownership and possession to participation in a well-regulated, public state-run militia which all adults of sound mind, good character and who are the age of majority can join.

How do you create the political will to enact such fundamental changes? Play hardball in a brutal kulturkampf, on the upperclass streets of America. Spend millions or billions of citizen-donated dollars vilifying the pro-gun industry owners, managers, advocates and politicians in a vicious nongovernmental propaganda campaign which demonises and dehumanises them to lower the barriers to their slaughter. Then encourage crazy, would-be, mass-murderers to target the pro-gun industry owners, managers, advocates, lobbyists and politicians, their spouses, their children and their property. When enough of them and their families have died in mass-shootings, the political will to change things shall be there and change will happen. So kill the rich and powerful who support unfettered gun ownership and possession and take out their families, you sociopathic crazies out there; until their senselessly spilled blood lubricates the wheels of political change in an otherwise politically indifferent America. When the ruling class has been decimated by psychopathic gun violence then things will change.

Of course I jest, honest and for true! But if things don't change, well, violence is always an option for mad folk intent on reshaping a society.

Cheers.
Very Evilroddy.

terrible, terrible, terrible ideas there; I see no one offered any 'likes' ................... I knew it was terrible ..................

 

[ttwtt78640]

Not letting them have guns would be a good start.

Not letting them roam freely among us would be the best way to accomplish that.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Yeah, that's why convicts on death row file appeal, after appeal, after appeal. They don't want to die. It goes against human instinct. To a convict, life on death row beats being dead. If wouldbe murderers knew that the death penalty was mandatory, the murder rate would decrease.

Committing a murder with an automatic weapon carries an automatic death penalty. I say we give it a try. Who cares if these scumbags die?

I do. Death is too easy. It takes away all pain. I want them to suffer, and continue suffering. Endless solitude confinement is far better. Absolute solitude. Not allowing even the guards to speak with them. Denied all contact with the outside world, no visitors.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Given that most of these mass shooters end up committing suicide before being caught, I doubt the DP is going to be a deterrent.

The death penalty is not a deterrent. It is punishment.

 

[99percenter]

Not letting them roam freely among us would be the best way to accomplish that.

Unfortunately, as long as we have christians, we will have christian terrorism.

 

[OldFatGuy]

In the 19th Century, when more people were armed and the death penalty was used more often, the murder rate was significantly lower.

Not quite. In the long term, violent crime in the United States has been in decline since colonial times. The homicide rate has been estimated to be over 30 per 100,000 people in 1700, dropping to under 20 by 1800, and to under 10 by 1900. Despite the sensationalist reporting by the media, since the 1990's violent crime, homicide, particularly murder, in the United States has declined steeply. Use of the death penalty was at its peak during the 1920 and 30's stateside. The exception was overseas for American troops during WWII for desertion and other soldier crimes, and then rarely compared to other nations' militaries. The most frequent users of the death penalty among militaries of WWII was by the British, mostly of their colonial troops (not that race had anything to do with it, but it did, damn wogs).

 

[jamesrage]

You are saying that all/most of mass shooters are suicidal and for that reason they commit mass murder. If that is true then most suicidal people are prone to commit mass shootings. I can't tell you that isn't true but, I will tell you I have never read where research has determined it to be true. Would you agree that in depth unbiased, non-political research needs to be conducted to prove or disprove that most mass shooters are suicidal?

Off the top of my head I would tell you that it doesn't seem the shooter 2 days ago was that suicidal. He tried to evade and escape. He put up no resistance when caught. The shooter in LV appears to have planned his escape. Sounds as if he wasn't that suicidal though he did eventually commit suicide. Even then what makes these people suicidal? Might that also be a factor? Do we know? I don't. I'd like to know.

Do most people who are bullied and/or isolated and depressed kill people? I don't think they do. Why don't they? Is there a clue in there that might lead us to other factors?

I don't think most people who commit suicide are social outcast losers who want their 15 minutes of fame.If they were then we would have 40,000 plus mass murders a year. Nor are most people who are bullied want their 15 minutes of fame or are suicidal.

The guy in Vegas I think was trying to make a political point. Because he didn't need 24 guns or even the bump stock to rack up that many victims. His victims were all packed together and would have literally like shooting fish in a barrel. One firearm and a **** load of magazines would have sufficed and maybe 1 or 2 extra firearms in case of a jam or some sort of other malfunction. I could be wrong and he is just some lazy ****er who didn't want to bother reloading. But then again I don't think he is lazy due to the fact it would have just been easier to have 2 or 3 guns all of the same type and a ****load magazines.

Some of these guys might have had an escape plan, but more than likely they knew that there was a huge chance they would get shot by the police.

As for the rat in Florida it could have been a momentary lapse in judge that caused him to surrender. he did take an uber to the school from what I heard. So he had no means of escape.

T

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Most all of us have read, watched and listened to stories about the mass shooting in Parkland, Florida. Media has flogged this story hard. They've interviewed countless people, many of them politicians.

One thing I have yet to hear any member of the media ask is "Why does this continue to happen?" One thing I have yet to hear any politico say is "First we must understand why these mass shootings continue to occur in the United States."

The press isn't asking why it continues to happen. The press is asking "What are you going to do about it?" As a result politicians attempt to answer to "What" question while either not having the balls or the brains to suggest that the question we must first address is "Why".

So here we go again doing the same thing and expecting different results. How is that going to work out? Same as always. We will blame guns, kids, poor security, mental health, etc. and the politicos will offer prayers and promises. Nothing much at all will change between now and the next mass shooting.

You cannot provide a successful solution to a problem you don't fully understand. WHY do mass shootings occur again and again in America?

I have no answers, but I would submit that there are a number of contributing factors. I don't know all the factors or how much each factor contributes to the overall problem. I have no idea if or to what degree each of the contributing factors affect each other. What I have heard or read is opinions.

What are the root causes? Why does it happen and continue to happen? We don't really know. Until we know why we are just going to continue to throw mud on the wall and hope some of it sticks.

It is simple. To most gun owners, an AR is a gun that is fun to shoot. To a psychopath, an AR style weapon is an efficient killing machine that they fetishize. Look, if you want an AR, fine I get it. I get they can be a lot of fun. I am totally cool with that, but lets not pretend there is not a societal cost to have more than 5 million of them floating around this country now. Let's just be honest about it for once. The 2nd Amendment is no different than any other right in that there are costs as well as benefits. With freedom of the press, we also get at lot of garbage and misinformation in the media. With freedom of religion, we also get some dangerous cults. With freedom of speech, we also get scum like Nazis and White Supremacists. Every right has societal costs along with its benefits. The second amendment is no different than that.

Right now, there are a fair number of psychopaths out there that looked at this latest school shooting and are thinking of how they can out do it. Just like right now there are psychopaths out there looking at how one man was able to shoot hundreds in Vegas and thinking about how they can out do that. That along with the means (ARs, bump stocks, high capacity magazines and so on) are why have so many mass shootings, and that is why it will only get worse. We don't have any more psychopaths in this country than they do anywhere else in the developed world, we just give our psychopaths far better tools to murder with.

I don't know what the answer is to this. The fact is, some of this stuff should have never been sold to the general population, but it has and there are now millions of them out there, so the cat it out of the bag on that one. Thus talk of assault weapons bans and so on is just nonsense. At this point, the best thing we can do is better secure schools and other soft targets.

 

[d0gbreath]

No one has answers or solutions. All is speculation, with exception of the media sensationalizing each event, encouraging more by doing so.

"Hey mom, I got my name in the newspapers with a headline!"

If the media were sincere, they'd report these events, as another sad event off the front pages, no sensationalist headlines, and no names or photos of the perps. Let the evildoers fade into obscurity with the sands of time, and we'll witness a lessening of these actions. Not a cure, but less frequency.

I agree. It's the pursuit of fame by any means. I can remember when suicidal people only killed themselves.

 

[antiquity]

The only solutions are those that Republican legislators will never consider - at least, not as long as they suck on the hind teat of the NRA and the gun manufacturers, and as long as they are controlled by right-wing pundits.

Its was the ACLU with the backing of the democrats that forced thousands of medial patients to be released from medical faculties back in the LBJ days. Just what changes should be made? A back ground check is already required. Maybe enforcing current laws...just maybe?

 

[Risky Thicket]

I don't think most people who commit suicide are social outcast losers who want their 15 minutes of fame.If they were then we would have 40,000 plus mass murders a year. Nor are most people who are bullied want their 15 minutes of fame or are suicidal.

The guy in Vegas I think was trying to make a political point. Because he didn't need 24 guns or even the bump stock to rack up that many victims. His victims were all packed together and would have literally like shooting fish in a barrel. One firearm and a **** load of magazines would have sufficed and maybe 1 or 2 extra firearms in case of a jam or some sort of other malfunction. I could be wrong and he is just some lazy ****er who didn't want to bother reloading. But then again I don't think he is lazy due to the fact it would have just been easier to have 2 or 3 guns all of the same type and a ****load magazines.

Some of these guys might have had an escape plan, but more than likely they knew that there was a huge chance they would get shot by the police.

As for the rat in Florida it could have been a momentary lapse in judge that caused him to surrender. he did take an uber to the school from what I heard. So he had no means of escape.

T

Agreed and you're kind of making my point. There is likely a number of common factors among the slaughtering sumbitches. I don't know what they are but I wish the government would commit to finding out. Yes, they used guns but let's be objective and honest. If the government banned guns tomorrow that won't take them off the street. The VAST majority of legal gun owners are responsible people.

But here we go with the ban guns argument going national. I know people are pissed, afraid and frustrated. All of us are pissed. All of us are frustrated. Politicians are going to do what they always do => Throw money at the problem. How's that working so far? It isn't.

I wish that politicians would have the balls to say, "I don't know what the problem is. I am committed to finding out and I promise I will move to address the cause from there."

Poor analogy: Your car/truck breaks down on the Interstate. You have no idea what's wrong but your vehicle just stopped running. You check the gas gauge and that isn't it. You then get out of the vehicle and change one of the tires.

Why would you do that? Because you know how to change a tire.

Does that solve the problem? No, it doesn't. But it is what you know how to do.

That's where we are with mass shootings. No one knows what is causing mass shootings but they want to change the tire because "that might work."

We need to know why people commit mass shootings so that we can address the root issues.

 

[shrubnose]

As usual? Compared to what? Trot your sources out for us.

er
The Florida shooting couldhave been prevented if law enforcement had reacted to the warnings that it had.the killed abouer talked about his intentions online.all the clues were there

:doh
f

 

[shrubnose]

Agreed and you're kind of making my point. There is likely a number of common factors among the slaughtering sumbitches. I don't know what they are but I wish the government would commit to finding out. Yes, they used guns but let's be objective and honest. If the government banned guns tomorrow that won't take them off the street. The VAST majority of legal gun owners are responsible people.

But here we go with the ban guns argument going national. I know people are pissed, afraid and frustrated. All of us are pissed. All of us are frustrated. Politicians are going to do what they always do => Throw money at the problem. How's that working so far? It isn't.

I wish that politicians would have the balls to say, "I don't know what the problem is. I am committed to finding out and I promise I will move to address the cause from there."

Poor analogy: Your car/truck breaks down on the Interstate. You have no idea what's wrong but your vehicle just stopped running. You check the gas gauge and that isn't it. You then get out of the vehicle and change one of the tires.

Why would you do that? Because you know how to change a tire.

Does that solve the problem? No, it doesn't. But it is what you know how to do.

That's where we are with mass shootings. No one knows what is causing mass shootings but they want to change the tire because "that might work."

We need to know why people commit mass shootings so that we can address the root issues.

It's a mental health problem.

 

[shrubnose]

I don't think most people who commit suicide are social outcast losers who want their 15 minutes of fame.If they were then we would have 40,000 plus mass murders a year. Nor are most people who are bullied want their 15 minutes of fame or are suicidal.

The guy in Vegas I think was trying to make a political point. Because he didn't need 24 guns or even the bump stock to rack up that many victims. His victims were all packed together and would have literally like shooting fish in a barrel. One firearm and a **** load of magazines would have sufficed and maybe 1 or 2 extra firearms in case of a jam or some sort of other malfunction. I could be wrong and he is just some lazy ****er who didn't want to bother reloading. But then again I don't think he is lazy due to the fact it would have just been easier to have 2 or 3 guns all of the same type and a ****load magazines.

Some of these guys might have had an escape plan, but more than likely they knew that there was a huge chance they would get shot by the police.

As for the rat in Florida it could have been a momentary lapse in judge that caused him to surrender. he did take an uber to the school from what I heard. So he had no means of escape.

T

But he was able to leave the school area

 

[Risky Thicket]

er
The Florida shooting couldhave been prevented if law enforcement had reacted to the warnings that it had.the killed abouer talked about his intentions online.all the clues were there

:doh
f

In Florida there is a law called the Baker Act. As I understand the law people who are determined to be a danger to themselves or others can - per a judge's order - be detained and housed (against their will) until such time that they are evaluated and determined not to be a danger. Every state, I think, has a similar law. It doesn't sound to me as if that option was used in the Florida. Why? Why not? Apparently there were beaucoup red flags concerning this kid.

My opinion is that America does not take mental health seriously enough to provide it and properly fund access to it. Even then that is only one facet. I don't believe that that alone is the solution.

 

[Risky Thicket]

It's a mental health problem.

I suspect that is a major component. At the same time the vast majority of people with mental health issues[/quote] are not suicidal or homicidal. But beyond that what is/are the causes of people becoming suicidal or homicidal?

Are we doing enough to address those causes? Probably, hell no. Add to that the social stigma which seems to be a big problem for people who might otherwise ask for help.

 

[Kreton]

It's a mental health problem.

What is the cause of this massive swing in mental health problems?

 

[danielpalos]

What is the cause of this massive swing in mental health problems?

Inequality.

 

[apdst]

I do. Death is too easy. It takes away all pain. I want them to suffer, and continue suffering. Endless solitude confinement is far better. Absolute solitude. Not allowing even the guards to speak with them. Denied all contact with the outside world, no visitors.

For a lot of convicts prison is a right of passage. Start executing them, and it want be as inviting.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Its was the ACLU with the backing of the democrats that forced thousands of medial patients to be released from medical faculties back in the LBJ days. Just what changes should be made? A back ground check is already required. Maybe enforcing current laws...just maybe?

In 1954, when Ike was the president, the Republican Party attempted to pass a bill exempting federal funds for care of the mentally ill and emotionally disturbed. Ike fought that bill and it never left committee. Over the next 2 decades, federal revenue sharing for care of inpatient mentally ill and the emotionally disturbed was sliced from the Federal budget as a direct cost, shifted to the Medicaid program, administered by the States. Meaning a patient first had to qualify for Medicaid before being institutionalized in most states. In most states today, only those deemed criminally insane are incarcerated in state owned institutions, those institutions are prisons, not asylums.

The ACLU cases were not for releasing the mentally ill or emotionally disturbed from institutions. They were for the Constitutional requirement for legal representation of adults involuntarily incarcerated in asylums without law representation, resulting from court proceedings. It was the decisions of Attorney Generals in most states and most cases not to proceed with court adjudications for those patients who were released because they had no lawful representation when they were judged insane by courts and incarcerated, after those patients were released from institutions after a Supreme Court decision that representation was required prior to commitment.

It was Governor Nelson Rockefeller of New York who led the charge to remove the State of NY from owning and operating public institutions for long term care of the mentally ill and emotionally disturbed. His motivations were twofold, humane care for the mentally ill and emotionally disturbed because the state owned and operated facilities were hell holes. Look up Willowbrook. And as a fiscal conservative he wanted the state not to be burdened by the costs. He set the precedence and other governors followed in his footsteps.

You can put that myth to rest.

 

[OldFatGuy]

er
The Florida shooting couldhave been prevented if law enforcement had reacted to the warnings that it had.the killed abouer talked about his intentions online.all the clues were there

:doh
f

Pointing the finger of blame for one incident solves nothing. It won't prevent more similar incidents. It is nothing more than more whining and ego stroking.

 

[OldFatGuy]

It's a mental health problem.

Maybe, maybe not. It may just be plain old evil. There are those who are evil, and their being evil has nothing to do with religious definition of evil.

There are those who consciously without conscience choose to torture, maim and kill. They enjoy doing so. Born to kill. That is not mental illness, it is evil. Stop making excuses for evil.