What is the Point of School?

[DDD]

A place where teachers go to become zombies.

Not if teachers unite and keep themselves... cozy?

 

[CRUE CAB]

I really dont understand why you way they cannot hold a conversation above a third grade level. Is it sentence structure or lact of pertitent facts or waht?

My step son knows nothing of American history. Totally disengaged in current American politics, no idea how the US came to be.
That said, he is 26 owns his own house and has a good job. On the internet. Internet sales. Face to face he has trouble keeping up with most conversations beyond football, fishing, MMA, video games and the like.
No idea of US history, anything about Viet Nam, WWII or any of the most important events in our nations military or political past.
Not knowing or ignoring the past is a sure way of repeating that past.
Now he is in school for advaced applications creating for I phones and the sort.
The disconnect between what is our obvious future and our most important past is disconcerting.
My question is what were his teachers teaching? His age group cant even read and write in cursive.
His cousin told me not long ago that she was taught in highschool that the Bill of Rights were not applicable anylonger and wont be taught in her school.
That the constitution is too much a outdated and outmoded set of rules and pattern of government that it has no fit for the future.
Teachers like these should be shot as seditionists.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Pertinent facts. Disinterest in consequential things in life, while a thriving enthrallment with the drudgery that is small-talk.

Thats what Iam talking about.
Having algebra beaten in to you for three years does what for a person that is more interested in becoming a police officer, or fireman, or farmer, or lawyer.

 

[Woodman909]

What is the point of school?
I'm looking the reason we send "children" to schools at all.
Is it to give a basic understanding of life and the world around us?
Social indoctranation?
Prepare the child for work in the 'Real World'?
Just giving usefull information?
Or just a goverment babysitter?

And the follow up question.
Is the way we are doing it now working?
If not What would work better?
If so how so?

Perhaps you should pose this question directly to our NBA and NFL alumni ?

 

[DDD]

The problem is they stopped teaching American exceptionalism, true American history, civics, the Constitution, life skills and skill you can make a living with.

I cringe everytime I listen to our highschool and recent highschool grads in our family talk. What they talk about, how shallow and disengaged from real life they are.

But amazingly they graduate with very high GPAs, usually get right into college, but cant hold a conversation above a third grade level on anything other than the latest video game, or football score.

I think the problem is not just in America alone. It is international one and in here also. I blame the media as a very tempting input to describe how life is, but lacks substance, depth, and methodology that would appeal one to think and come to logical conclusions. That and perhaps more time spend with parents.

 

[Smeagol]

What is the point of school?
I'm looking the reason we send "children" to schools at all.
Is it to give a basic understanding of life and the world around us?
Social indoctranation?
Prepare the child for work in the 'Real World'?
Just giving usefull information?
Or just a goverment babysitter?

And the follow up question.
Is the way we are doing it now working?
If not What would work better?
If so how so?

Its supposed to be for educating the next generation in order to give them income producing skills and knowledge and develop their God given talents in consideration of their future financial well being and society's benefit. I have criticized making use of the captive audience public school system for social engineering purposes such as passing out condoms to children with or without parental consent or knowledge or promoting homosexuality as a normal healthy lifestyle regardless of parental agreement or lack thereof or if such indoctrination violates family's moral convictions rooted in faith, etc. That said, I am not going to be dishonest; IMHO one of the best things to ever happen in America to significantly reduce racism and discrimination was the court ordered desegregation of the public schools in the 1970s, a type of social engineering. I think however there was an important distinction between desegregation of schools and overt indoctrination. With desegregation, nobody came into the classrooms and proceeded to actively indoctrinate kids. Instead they simply were allowed for the first time in significant numbers to sit next to each other in class and have teachers of different ethnic heritages than their own. This led to friendships being forged on their own and mentor relationships being established across racial lines. 40 year later the kids who grew up with that experience have a different attitude toward race than their parents might have had due to institutional barriers that once kept the races divided and simply don't care anywhere near as much what skin color people have anymore than it matters what hair color they have.

To the follow up question. No, I don't think education is what it needs to be in America. I support school choice without restrictions on faith-based schools as long as the schools are accredited or are working toward being accredited while students meet or surpass benchmarks in annual standardized tests and usually private school achievement blows away the public schools. BTW: there are also no restrictions on Pell Grants and federal student loans at private faith based colleges and universities, which is also good thing and precedent setting. That said, being honest again, I don't think the lower achievement in the public schools is due mostly from being bad schools. I think the lower achievement is due to kids coming from bad homes. The fatherless home in my opinion is probably one of the most dangerous and often perpetually cyclical problem in America today. It effects almost everything: the crime rate, illicit drug abuse, taxation, educational achievement, public health, property values, the overall economy, etc. etc.

 

[mak2]

I too think there are problems with American education, but I dont think it has anything to do with algebra, cursive writing or creative history. I think all education, from 3 years of algebra to English and Lit and a forign language, well the more subjects you learn about and the more facts you know to begin to build a base to critically think on, is what is important, not so much the students are taught facts that agree with the rightwings world view. The biggest problem I see with students today is the teaching to the test as done by schools to ensure easy testing to make sure those pesky union teachers are doing their job. Education should be very general and as in depth as possible until training in your career. Algebra might never come into direct use after highschool, but then again it might help problem solve in a completley unrelated field.

Thats what Iam talking about.
Having algebra beaten in to you for three years does what for a person that is more interested in becoming a police officer, or fireman, or farmer, or lawyer.

 

[CRUE CAB]

I too think there are problems with American education, but I dont think it has anything to do with algebra, cursive writing or creative history. I think all education, from 3 years of algebra to English and Lit and a forign language, well the more subjects you learn about and the more facts you know to begin to build a base to critically think on, is what is important, not so much the students are taught facts that agree with the rightwings world view. The biggest problem I see with students today is the teaching to the test as done by schools to ensure easy testing to make sure those pesky union teachers are doing their job. Education should be very general and as in depth as possible until training in your career. Algebra might never come into direct use after highschool, but then again it might help problem solve in a completley unrelated field.

Then why make algebra and more advanced math, required.

 

[ReformCollege]

You're a good example of why school is important. If you had attended, or paid attention in class if you did attend, you wouldn't post this kind of ignorance.

Maybe if YOU paid attention in class you would realize that plenty of teachers suck.

 

[winston53660]

You're a good example of why school is important. If you had attended, or paid attention in class if you did attend, you wouldn't post this kind of ignorance.

Lighten up man. The lady is a teacher,.

 

[ReformCollege]

I too think there are problems with American education, but I dont think it has anything to do with algebra, cursive writing or creative history. I think all education, from 3 years of algebra to English and Lit and a forign language, well the more subjects you learn about and the more facts you know to begin to build a base to critically think on, is what is important, not so much the students are taught facts that agree with the rightwings world view. The biggest problem I see with students today is the teaching to the test as done by schools to ensure easy testing to make sure those pesky union teachers are doing their job. Education should be very general and as in depth as possible until training in your career. Algebra might never come into direct use after highschool, but then again it might help problem solve in a completley unrelated field.

Teaching to the test only happens when people fall below the standard. I never did any FCAT work until two weeks before the test and most of the time it was "I don't see any point in making you do this, but the state says I have to, so here you go."

 

[CRUE CAB]

If you had gone to school you wouldn't be posting this stuff -- either that or if you did go to school, you may be the best argument against school ...

but, yes, hopefully school will teach you not to be a bigot (homophobe), to understand the need for a government (but also its limits), and to understand the scientific evidence for global warming ...

Proof of what is wrong with schools today right there in that post.

 

[OscarB63]

A place where teachers go to become zombies.

oooh, been there done that. I taught public school for over a decade. I was very motivated when I started but it only took a couple of years before the system wore me down. I got tired of leading horses to water only to have them piss in it instead of drinking.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Lighten up man. The lady is a teacher,.

Then maybe she can tell us what is wrong with schools today.

 

[OscarB63]

Then maybe she can tell us what is wrong with schools today.

too many parent(s) use it as a daycare and could care less if their kids actually learn anything or not.

 

[soot]

...and for the ladies - Home and Family Management. This allows people to focus on the skills and abilities relevant to them without wasting their time on unnecessary information.

Right, because we wouldn't want the ladies understanding economics, political philosophy, current events, geography, or anything else that would help them be informed citizens and intelligent voters.

Course, the ladies shouldn't be allowed to vote at all.

If God wanted the women and niggers voting the Constitution would have said so.

Should all blacks be funneled into the agricultural track, the better to pick cotton?

 

[CRUE CAB]

too many parent(s) use it as a daycare and could care less if their kids actually learn anything or not.

I mentioned parental involvement in their childrens education in a post a while ago. No one wanted to hear that.

 

[Gardener]

You know, it actually makes some sort of perverse sense that those who benefitted least from their educational opportunities bitch about our schools the most.

 

[Mach]

What is the point of school?

That's a big question, it's tied to everyone who has started a school, how a particular schools is chartered, what its hidden goals may be, what the educators think it is, what the public as a whole believes, parents, and students.

I'm looking the reason we send "children" to schools at all.

I send my child to school because she's with children her age in a controlled environment that is conducive to learning things that she'll need to know to compete in our marketplace. It's supplemented at home and in outside of school learning activities. We specifically chose her school and teacher such that it meets with our expectations.

Is it to give a basic understanding of life and the world around us?

Partially, sure. All knowledge gives us greater understanding of the world around us...by definition.

Social indoctranation?

Social exposure. Not sure what you mean by indoctrination. If interacting with others is indoctrination I suppose, otherwise I consider it a life skill, and more fun than playing with dolls (so I hear!).

Prepare the child for work in the 'Real World'?

Sure, but I expect it will mostly be fundamentals they learn in school. The *real world* education is typically not going to be found in a traditional school based on my understanding of schools. That will largely come from her parents, because schools are probably 30 years behind where they should be if they were not so detached from consumers.

Or just a goverment babysitter?

To a degree, but government doesn't make the babysitting role bad, if it were private we'd still use private schools as a baby sitter to a degree as well. Nothing wrong with this. Personally having a child I intentionally want my child in a school or school-like environment. I don't know how home schoolers do it, but I think my child would kill us if she had to sit all day every day with us lecturing her, without other kids to interact with, a teacher who is perceived differently than a the parent doing the educating, etc. I think we'd be doing it wrong if we did not send her to school. But for us we are picky about the school and what she learns.

Is the way we are doing it now working?

Is what our family is doing working for us? Yes. But it's terribly inefficient and expensive currently, so from that perspective no its not working for us, but our daughter won't really have to absorb that part.

If not What would work better?

Public education reform to look like every other successful industry that changes with the times, reacts to consumer feedback, has competitive costs, etc

 

[Torrent]

Well ya if you found it helpful and useful what would there be to complain about?
It would be like complaining about a meal you enjoyed? So of course the people that complain about education system feel failed by it or have friends/children/friend's children that it failed.

 

[Tigger]

Right, because we wouldn't want the ladies understanding economics, political philosophy, current events, geography, or anything else that would help them be informed citizens and intelligent voters.

Course, the ladies shouldn't be allowed to vote at all.

If God wanted the women and niggers voting the Constitution would have said so. Should all blacks be funneled into the agricultural track, the better to pick cotton?

This has less than notihng to do with skin color or racial identificatioin, only gender.

 

[Captain Adverse]

too many parent(s) use it as a daycare and could care less if their kids actually learn anything or not.

That's a big part of the problem. I taught High School 9th & 10th grade History for a couple of years. On the first day I handed out little 3 by 5 cards with spaces for student signatures, and asked them to return the next day with parental signatures and contact phone numbers in the spaces provided. The second day, after collecting the 3 by 5 cards, I issued a course syllabus along with a learning contract and instructed my students to give it to their parents to read, keep, and sign off on. They had to return with the signed acknowledgement sheets.

Then after every graded test or assignment I would require students to take them home to have the parent's sign off on them, and return them to class so I could compare and verify signatures. I then made copies and filed them in a folder for each student in class. I would also call parents after major tests to compliment A & B students, or talk about issues regarding D & F students. Come Parent-Teacher visiting days, I would pull out all the info and confront any parent who complained about their son or daughter to point out all the prior warnings given them concerning problem areas and suggested solutions.

This often worked, but there were always parents who simply blamed the system and this attitude was sadly reflected in their children's work ethic. Then there were administrators who would enable this attitude by blaming teachers for never doing enough. Much as I enjoyed teaching, the attitudes of school administrators pissed me off so much I got fed up.

 

[Torrent]

Social exposure. Not sure what you mean by indoctrination. If interacting with others is indoctrination I suppose, otherwise I consider it a life skill, and more fun than playing with dolls (so I hear!).

Just meant is it how we teach our children to think about our society what it is to be American, of the Western Mindset, Liberal, Conservative, Other, etc?

 

[OscarB63]

On the first day I handed out little 3 by 5 cards with spaces for their signatures, and asked them to return next day with parental signatures in the spaces privided, along with contact phone numbers. .

yeah...I tried that a couple of times. out of the 200 or so cards I sent home...I usually only got 15-20 back.

 

[Mach]

The biggest challenge for hindsight on schools is that where you are today is a known path, but when you were in school you couldn't know where your path would lead, so you get a much more generalized education. It may in hindsight look 80% useless, and that may be true, but to some degree that's the purpose of a general education. That's not to say our general public education is really worth a damn on average though, or that it has its priorities straight, etc.