What is the Point of School?

[Paxaeon]

`
`

"Educations greatest dogma is also it's greatest fallacy:
The belief that what must be learned can necessarily be taught."​

 

[DDD]

`
`

"Educations greatest dogma is also it's greatest fallacy:
The belief that what must be learned can necessarily be taught."​

I think teaching the necessary knowledge is positively correlated with effort. But you are right that if lecturers have closed minded dogmatic beliefs that mere performance works in teaching students the necessary then they may be blind to see how it may not be working.

 

[Jerry]

What is the point of school?

To make a product: taxpayers.

 

[chromium]

The point is to force people without kids to help pay for babysitters. Also because 1 babysitter/30 kids is cheaper

 

[Bodi]

I wonder where all of our scientists, doctors, judges, bureaucrats, engineers, accountants etc. come from?

Their parents?

 

[Bodi]

`
`

"Educations greatest dogma is also it's greatest fallacy:
The belief that what must be learned can necessarily be taught."​

That quote is stupid. Literally. It can be taught. Will it be learned is the fallacy... The belief that what is taught can necessarily be learned

 

[SayMyName]

If it isn't preparing them for the "World of Work," then it probably isn't doing much at all.

 

[nota bene]

If you want to learn a trade, attend a trade school. Nothing wrong with that, and, in fact, I applaud practical Associate of Applied Science degrees. If you want to learn how to learn, how to think critically and creatively and how to conduct research, earn a four-year degree in your discipline.

 

[imagep]

The point is to force people without kids to help pay for babysitters. Also because 1 babysitter/30 kids is cheaper

yet it's not about the adults, it's about the kids. Everyone, whether they have kids or not, was once a kid. If we were given the opportunity by our society for an education, or even just for daycare, then it's our societal and generational obligation to pitch in and do the same for our societies children.

 

[imagep]

To make a product: taxpayers.

Sure, and also to make workers, and leaders, and researchers, and people who are generally viable in our modern society. It all seems like a noble goal, and we actually achieve that goal, at least with many of our children.

 

[Bodi]

If it isn't preparing them for the "World of Work," then it probably isn't doing much at all.

It is preparing them to be productive members of society in a number or ways... the world of work is what you learn on the job our at university.

 

[Bodi]

The point is to force people without kids to help pay for babysitters. Also because 1 babysitter/30 kids is cheaper

Nope. Education is shifting away from content based learning and towards skills based learning. What is relevant is teaching skills that fall under catagories like thinking, participating, contributing, managing self, relating to others, etc. These skills transcend professions. Working independently or collaboratively... managing yourself... These can be taught in any subject but lend themselves the most favorably to English, history and geography.

 

[chromium]

yet it's not about the adults, it's about the kids. Everyone, whether they have kids or not, was once a kid. If we were given the opportunity by our society for an education, or even just for daycare, then it's our societal and generational obligation to pitch in and do the same for our societies children.

i respect that view but the question (if i recall) was what is the point. There had to have been a reason K-12 began and a reason it persists, aside from 'returning the favor.'

It will also end eventually, as everything does. In the distant future, robots will do everything and we won't need education beyond 5th grade level, or the aging process is reversed, who knows. At some point the obligation won't be fulfilled.

 

[chromium]

Nope. Education is shifting away from content based learning and towards skills based learning. What is relevant is teaching skills that fall under catagories like thinking, participating, contributing, managing self, relating to others, etc. These skills transcend professions. Working independently or collaboratively... managing yourself... These can be taught in any subject but lend themselves the most favorably to English, history and geography.

And how prevalent is that in reality in american k-12? Cause i just finished a couple years ago and nothing you say seems familiar. If schools don't want to come off as merely 'free' babysitters, they need to ditch the sheer wastes of time like "study hall" and 1hr bus rides (each way)

 

[Bodi]

And how prevalent is that in reality in american k-12? Cause i just finished a couple years ago and nothing you say seems familiar. If schools don't want to come off as merely 'free' babysitters, they need to ditch the sheer wastes of time like "study hall" and 1hr bus rides (each way)

I never said that administrations or the state doesn't screw up aspects of the education system... because they do. I addressed the point of school.

 

[imagep]

i respect that view but the question (if i recall) was what is the point. There had to have been a reason K-12 began and a reason it persists, aside from 'returning the favor.'

It will also end eventually, as everything does. In the distant future, robots will do everything and we won't need education beyond 5th grade level, or the aging process is reversed, who knows. At some point the obligation won't be fulfilled.

Someone was alluding to an argument that the point of education is to force those who don't have children to pay for the education of those who do. I was pointing out that education isn't so much about the parents, as it is the children. And I do want all children to be educated as best as we can manage, because those children will be the producers of tomorrow. They will be my caretakers and providers, in my old age. I don't want someone who has no education to be my doctor or my nurse. I'd prefer people who can read and write to be the producers of the products that I will use in the future. I'd like some capable engineers and researchers in the world as I age.

And I do agree that eventually, due to technology, we really won't need scads of highly educated people. There may be a day where the CEO of a multi trillion dollar corporation producing zillions of products for millions of people, may be it's only human employee, and our government will highly tax those companies and redistribute the profits to every citizen as some sort of "citizen dividend" or "guaranteed income" program. Until then, having some education and employable job skills is still a good idea.

But yea, your right, at some point the sun will engulf the earth or everything will be swallowed up by a black hole, so what's the point of anything.

 

[imagep]

And how prevalent is that in reality in american k-12? Cause i just finished a couple years ago and nothing you say seems familiar. If schools don't want to come off as merely 'free' babysitters, they need to ditch the sheer wastes of time like "study hall" and 1hr bus rides (each way)

Yea, they could just "beam" those students to school, just like in Star Trek.

I do agree that study hall is a waste for the vast majority of students. They no longer have study hall at the schools in my district.

 

[chromium]

Someone was alluding to an argument that the point of education is to force those who don't have children to pay for the education of those who do. I was pointing out that education isn't so much about the parents, as it is the children. And I do want all children to be educated as best as we can manage, because those children will be the producers of tomorrow. They will be my caretakers and providers, in my old age. I don't want someone who has no education to be my doctor or my nurse. I'd prefer people who can read and write to be the producers of the products that I will use in the future. I'd like some capable engineers and researchers in the world as I age.

Which is why we need to better identify those with such potential and give them the resources they need, and those kids who want to just cause disruption and enter construction or factory work, cut them lose early on.

And I do agree that eventually, due to technology, we really won't need scads of highly educated people. There may be a day where the CEO of a multi trillion dollar corporation producing zillions of products for millions of people, may be it's only human employee, and our government will highly tax those companies and redistribute the profits to every citizen as some sort of "citizen dividend" or "guaranteed income" program. Until then, having some education and employable job skills is still a good idea.

But yea, your right, at some point the sun will engulf the earth or everything will be swallowed up by a black hole, so what's the point of anything.

Heh, not quite what i was getting on, more like i see the early signs of online education, informally too, obsoleting many college majors even. 10th grade doesn't stand a chance, when anyone can go on youtube and learn the basics of coding, trig, accounting, biology in no time.

 

[chromium]

Yea, they could just "beam" those students to school, just like in Star Trek.

No but come on, i rode 1hr each way to travel *7 miles*. They need to have the kids gather at a corner stop or god forbid, have the parents take them. It's just a babysitter on wheels. It's so god awful inefficient, i can't imagine china ever wasting so much time simply getting them to school.

 

[imagep]

...
Heh, not quite what i was getting on, more like i see the early signs of online education, informally too, obsoleting many college majors even. 10th grade doesn't stand a chance, when anyone can go on youtube and learn the basics of coding, trig, accounting, biology in no time.

I think we will see a lot more computerized education in the future.

Employers like to hire people with college degrees, often because even if those people didn't learn anything in college, they have proven that they have what it takes to jump through hoops for four years and to stick with a pre-defined program.

The biggest thing against independent learning is that there is not currently much of a way to verify it. I hope that in the future, third party verification services, such as CLEP testing, will become more accepted and more of the norm. Almost ever college accepts CLEP tests for credit, but they tend to not encourage it or promote it, and they almost always put limits on the number of CLEP credit hours a student can count towards a degree.

I expect (hope) that the day will come when you can just study at home, and go to a testing center and leave that center with a college degree. Of course colleges don't like the idea, but more and more are slowly warming up to computerized learning and independent learning.

Yea, and basically every time that I want to learn how to do some fairly simple task, I will lookup a youtube video. Just last week I needed to change a headlight, and couldn't figure out how to get the assembly out of my car (it is an unusually assembly). I youtubed it and had the task completed in like three minutes.

 

[imagep]

No but come on, i rode 1hr each way to travel *7 miles*. They need to have the kids gather at a corner stop or god forbid, have the parents take them. It's just a babysitter on wheels. It's so god awful inefficient, i can't imagine china ever wasting so much time simply getting them to school.

I wouldn't know about that. Back in the day, I walked to school, and more recently I drove my kid to school until he was old enough to drive.

 

[chromium]

I wouldn't know about that. Back in the day, I walked to school, and more recently I drove my kid to school until he was old enough to drive.

Yeah and drove myself once old enough, but the bus has to stop at each house, waiting for up to 5 mins, and in rural areas it means driving across dirt roads for an hour just to pick up 30 kids in 10 mile radius. It could not be more senseless.

 

[CrabCake]

I'm going to assume that by "school" this thread really means "primary school" since most responses seem to refer to children.

I think the point of primary school is, or should be, to establish a baseline of knowledge for the population and to hone critical thinking, problem solving, and other mental skills.