What is the Point of School?

[imagep]

The point of school SHOULD BE to create individuals who are capable of surviving in our society on at least the most basic level. It should be a place where they are taught the language, work ethic, basic skills, morality and values necessary to exist in our society. Currently our public education system does none of the above and is little more than a daycare center in many cases.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but daycare is actually one of the functions of school also, and it's one of the most valuable.

I'm sure that I am going to be attacked by some teachers for saying that, but it's true.

 

[imagep]

I too think there are problems with American education, but I dont think it has anything to do with algebra, cursive writing or creative history. I think all education, from 3 years of algebra to English and Lit and a forign language, well the more subjects you learn about and the more facts you know to begin to build a base to critically think on, is what is important, not so much the students are taught facts that agree with the rightwings world view. The biggest problem I see with students today is the teaching to the test as done by schools to ensure easy testing to make sure those pesky union teachers are doing their job. Education should be very general and as in depth as possible until training in your career. Algebra might never come into direct use after highschool, but then again it might help problem solve in a completley unrelated field.

We don't have teacher unions in my state, yet we still have teachers who complain about testing, and having to teach the material that is on the test. I really don't understand the issue about "teaching to the test". If the tests have material that the student is expected to know for his/her grade level and subject, then it seems to me that there is no difference between "teaching to the test" and "teaching the curriculum".

 

[imagep]

what is the point of school?
question 1: Prepare the child for work in the 'real world'? yes
question 2: Or just a goverment babysitter? yes

and the follow up question.
question 3: Is the way we are doing it now working? yes
question 3b: If so how so? babysitting is available which makes employees more productive. Employees don't have to worry about finding a babysitter therefore they show up for work more often. This is good for employers. The most important skill of any employee is to show up. Truancy laws teach kids to show up for school. Learning this habit early in life ensures it will be continued in adulthood. Basic reading, math, writing and analytical skills also make for a more useful employee. This is very good for employers. John d. Rockefeller was one of the biggest forces for mandatory education. He was more focused on training workers not thinkers.

Rockefeller was also a huge supporter of prohibition. Drunks are less likely to show up for work. Rockefeller was a very powerful man. He wanted the best employees and he wanted a lot of them. Government run schools was the cheapest (cheapest for him) route to acheive his goal(s).

exactly!!!

 

[Tigger]

I'm not disagreeing with that, but daycare is actually one of the functions of school also, and it's one of the most valuable.

I'm sure that I am going to be attacked by some teachers for saying that, but it's true.

Unfortunately that's the only real function most of these schools take seriously. Very rarely do I see a school that is actually doing its educational function.

 

[joG]

What is the point of school?
I'm looking the reason we send "children" to schools at all.
Is it to give a basic understanding of life and the world around us?
Social indoctranation?
Prepare the child for work in the 'Real World'?
Just giving usefull information?
Or just a goverment babysitter?

And the follow up question.
Is the way we are doing it now working?
If not What would work better?
If so how so?

From what I read and hear, many public schools impart some information. But they cannot and do not replace pre-school socialization. They are good as babysitters, though.

Here in Germany most of the people with kids I know have put them into private schools. And literally all of our friends have. But that is expensive. So, I guess they don't work the way they should. Probably they never really did.

 

[imagep]

Unfortunately that's the only real function most of these schools take seriously. Very rarely do I see a school that is actually doing its educational function.

So then seeing how most people attended public school at some point in their life, how did they learn to read and write?

Schools might not be doing a great job, but there is certainly at least SOME learning going on.

 

[Tigger]

So then seeing how most people attended public school at some point in their life, how did they learn to read and write?

Schools might not be doing a great job, but there is certainly at least SOME learning going on.

In my experience the people who get the most out of public schools are those whose parents are most involved in ensuring their learning experience is top notch. Both of my parents were teachers and by the time my brothers and I were finished in the school system I think the administration was more than happy to NOT be getting phone calls from either/both of my parents on a regular basis anymore.

 

[imagep]

In my experience the people who get the most out of public schools are those whose parents are most involved in ensuring their learning experience is top notch. Both of my parents were teachers and by the time my brothers and I were finished in the school system I think the administration was more than happy to NOT be getting phone calls from either/both of my parents on a regular basis anymore.

Both my parents were teachers also. I think that's part of the reason that I frequent this particular thread and maybe part of the reason that I had a zillion conversations with my kid's high school principle. But yea, I think that probably the only students who get much out of school are those who came from families that value education.

 

[Bodi]

I'm not disagreeing with that, but daycare is actually one of the functions of school also, and it's one of the most valuable.

I'm sure that I am going to be attacked by some teachers for saying that, but it's true.

I am a teacher and I agree with you. That is not the primary goal, of course, it is just a by-product. The primary goal is to educate future productive members of society but school does act as a day care at the same time so that current productive members of society may continue being productive.

 

[Bodi]

We don't have teacher unions in my state, yet we still have teachers who complain about testing, and having to teach the material that is on the test. I really don't understand the issue about "teaching to the test". If the tests have material that the student is expected to know for his/her grade level and subject, then it seems to me that there is no difference between "teaching to the test" and "teaching the curriculum".

The problem is when the test is multiple choice... If it is essay or short answer then the students HAVE TO KNOW what they are to write about and what they will be asked. In multiple choice it is a little too direct and teaching to the test makes it more spoon fed answers. Not a ton, but more so. As a teacher I have to teach what they are to be tested on. You can't teach them about Hitler for a term and then test them on Gandhi and Passive Resistance. :roll:

 

[Bodi]

In my experience the people who get the most out of public schools are those whose parents are most involved in ensuring their learning experience is top notch. Both of my parents were teachers and by the time my brothers and I were finished in the school system I think the administration was more than happy to NOT be getting phone calls from either/both of my parents on a regular basis anymore.

The best education is one that sees the student as the one engaging in learning pro-actively. Knowing expectations and what they are being taught, why and how to mark their own work and peers work. If people don't care about their education that system will never work.

 

[Tigger]

The best education is one that sees the student as the one engaging in learning pro-actively. Knowing expectations and what they are being taught, why and how to mark their own work and peers work. If people don't care about their education that system will never work.

I agree 100% with your last sentence. Those individuals who choose to be disinterested in their education will never get ahead. The problem, as I see it, is that we try to treat every student the same. We focus on worthless crap like foreign languages, gym. art, and music instead of the core necessities. We allow students who are not at the proper level to advance. We expect girls and boys to be able to be educated together past the early grades, and we make the mistake of teaching them the same things. The entire system is broken and not likely to be fixed any time soon.

 

[d0gbreath]

School post-5th grade has been an utter waste of time for me. I already had a strong enough grasp on language, study, mathematics, scientific method, etc, to educate myself further in an autodidact manner. A senior in high school now, the last seven years of my education have done nothing but obstruct my self-erudition,pursuit of interests, contributions to proximinal society and cultivation of talents, for nine hours a day, 180 days a year. If I felt calculus was consequential to my future life, I would spend a few weeks going through textbooks to learn it. Instead, it takes 180 hours of horribly choreographed and often convoluted curriculum to achieve a rudimentary grasp.

You sound like a younger version of me. At least, what you wrote, triggered memories that I haven't had in over 40 years.

School is supposed to provide you with mental challenges. Having completed HS at the end of my Sophomore year (credit wise) I was ready to leave. Nope, you must stay here brain dead for the next two years. That took a toll akin to solitary confinement. Fortunately, I've been told that there are now programs designed to help overachievers start college early. I'm glad to hear that.

One of the things missing from my HS curriculum was finances. There was a marketing-merchandising class that I was thrown out of, but nothing about working on Wall Street.
Now that I'm 4 years away from retirement, I can't help but think that having gone into finances would have made my life easier and maybe even wealthier.

That's really just one of the few career areas still alive in America today. I did not know that it would be like this back in 1973.

 

[Frodly]

If the question is, what is the work school actually does in this society, it is very different than if the question is what do I think the point of school should be....

I believe education should exist to create a population of thoughtful, inquisitive, critical thinking citizens capable of holding accountable a representative government and advancing society in general. What we actually have is a propaganda system which trains students to be docile citizens and good capitalist producers. What do kids actually learn in school? They learn to be punctual, sit in one place quietly, do their work on time, respect authority, pledge allegiance to the flag, etc. We are not training critical thinkers capable of challenging those in power to do better. We are training mindless worker drones, who will work hard for no good reason and will sit idly by while government surveils them, invades countries without justification, funnels more money to elite interests, and ensures their own power and the power of their benefactors is protected. It is a shame, because education can be liberating if done properly, but is instead just propaganda....

 

[Frodly]

The problem is they stopped teaching American exceptionalism, true American history, civics, the Constitution, life skills and skill you can make a living with.
I cringe everytime I listen to our highschool and recent highschool grads in our family talk. What they talk about, how shallow and disengaged from real life they are.
But amazingly they graduate with very high GPAs, usually get right into college, but cant hold a conversation above a third grade level on anything other than the latest video game, or football score.

I don't know when the last time you were in a classroom was, but they most certainly do teach in that manner!! It has been a little less than a decade for me, but I have been in classrooms on multiple occasions since that time. The approved textbooks in schools ensure that is exactly what is taught. "True American history" is a nonsensical notion of course, as ascertaining an essential truth is not going to happen, but high school history is about how great America is. We learned that the founding fathers are the greatest men to have ever lived. We learned about John Winthrop's comparison of American to a shining city on a hill. We learned about how the constitution is the greatest document ever created. We learned about slavery before, but of course we have white American heroes in that story, so it is ok. We learned about America saving the day in WWI. How we won WWII and stopped the evil nazis from their campaign of death and slaughter.

You know what we didn't learn? About the hypocrisy of our slave owning aristocracy who wrote things like "all men are created equal," and then owned some men as property. We didn't learn about the extermination of native Americans, except in passing. We didn't learn about the guilded age. The pinkertons crushing strikes. The homestead strike. The haymarket riot. The pullman car strike. Eugene Debbs. The colonialism of the Spanish American War. How the Soviet Union actually "won" the European war. Or at best American capital helped Soviet soldiers win the European war. We never learned that more than 80% of german troops at the height of the war in 1944-1945 were fighting the Soviets. We didn't learn that America did defeat the nazis, who were legitimately horrible and evil on a scale unmatched in human history, that we actually did terrible things during the war as well. Internment camps, fire bombing Tokyo, Dresden, etc. We didn't learn about American imperialism since the second world war. We didn't learn about the CIA overthrowing government around the globe.

So that is ridiculous. I graduated high school believing in cute and simple minded silliness about American exceptionalism. It took a college degree in history to lead me to question much of that nonsense. It took a masters degree in Middle Eastern Studies to make it all fall apart and for the true nature of America to be exposed. The reason you think America is exceptional is because YOU were trained to think that way in school, which kind of defeats your point entirely.

 

[Paratrooper]

Honestly....to me nowadays it seems more like free "baby sitting" and liberal indoctrination more than anything.

 

[ecofarm]

The point of school is to improve critical thinking through access to knowledge and an environment for such.

 

[ChezC3]

it's oppression man.....

 

[ecofarm]

it's oppression man.....

Education is oppression. haha

 

[ChezC3]

Education is oppression. haha

damn the man...:2mad:

 

[mak2]

The most important concept I try to get my students to grasp is to look critically at everything. If they learn to do that, in the words of Louis, they will learn a whole more than I'll ever know."

The point of school is to improve critical thinking through access to knowledge and an environment for such.

 

[Jango]

What is the point of school?
I'm looking the reason we send "children" to schools at all.
Is it to give a basic understanding of life and the world around us?
Social indoctranation?
Prepare the child for work in the 'Real World'?
Just giving usefull information?
Or just a goverment babysitter?

And the follow up question.
Is the way we are doing it now working?
If not What would work better?
If so how so?

Some legitimate education, some legitimate indoctrination and a whole lot of real-time life experiences.

 

[CRUE CAB]

I don't know when the last time you were in a classroom was, but they most certainly do teach in that manner!! It has been a little less than a decade for me, but I have been in classrooms on multiple occasions since that time. The approved textbooks in schools ensure that is exactly what is taught. "True American history" is a nonsensical notion of course, as ascertaining an essential truth is not going to happen, but high school history is about how great America is. We learned that the founding fathers are the greatest men to have ever lived. We learned about John Winthrop's comparison of American to a shining city on a hill. We learned about how the constitution is the greatest document ever created. We learned about slavery before, but of course we have white American heroes in that story, so it is ok. We learned about America saving the day in WWI. How we won WWII and stopped the evil nazis from their campaign of death and slaughter.

You know what we didn't learn? About the hypocrisy of our slave owning aristocracy who wrote things like "all men are created equal," and then owned some men as property. We didn't learn about the extermination of native Americans, except in passing. We didn't learn about the guilded age. The pinkertons crushing strikes. The homestead strike. The haymarket riot. The pullman car strike. Eugene Debbs. The colonialism of the Spanish American War. How the Soviet Union actually "won" the European war. Or at best American capital helped Soviet soldiers win the European war. We never learned that more than 80% of german troops at the height of the war in 1944-1945 were fighting the Soviets. We didn't learn that America did defeat the nazis, who were legitimately horrible and evil on a scale unmatched in human history, that we actually did terrible things during the war as well. Internment camps, fire bombing Tokyo, Dresden, etc. We didn't learn about American imperialism since the second world war. We didn't learn about the CIA overthrowing government around the globe.

So that is ridiculous. I graduated high school believing in cute and simple minded silliness about American exceptionalism. It took a college degree in history to lead me to question much of that nonsense. It took a masters degree in Middle Eastern Studies to make it all fall apart and for the true nature of America to be exposed. The reason you think America is exceptional is because YOU were trained to think that way in school, which kind of defeats your point entirely.

First America is exceptional is because it is. And second every one I ever speak to under 30 could care less about the history of our country. They don't know any history and don't want to be bothered with it.
They also are indoctrinated, seemingly like yourself, that the US is just another dysfunctional nation on the verge of collapse.
Maybe were you went to school it was different and or you were more interested. But I would be hard to be convinced otherwise.

 

[MichaelJR]

Are we talking post-secondary or K-12?

 

[Frodly]

First America is exceptional is because it is.

Good point!! :roll:

And second every one I ever speak to under 30 could care less about the history of our country. They don't know any history and don't want to be bothered with it.
They also are indoctrinated, seemingly like yourself, that the US is just another dysfunctional nation on the verge of collapse.
Maybe were you went to school it was different and or you were more interested. But I would be hard to be convinced otherwise.

If your point is that many young people are ignorant about history, then I agree. They are ignorant about a lot of things. However, the history they do know, is history as national propaganda.

On top of that, education is always called indoctrination by the right. Yet they can never tell us who creates or benefits from the indoctrination!! There is a scary communist cabal about who are teaching American children lies to..... create communist utopia??? Where they get their money and ability to influence no one knows!! Alternatively, there is real propaganda, it just teaches people the exact things you think you know. That the US is the greatest, government saves the day, and capitalism is all about freedom. Who benefits from that sort of propaganda? Every powerful person in the country. Government benefits by having citizens less willing to challenge its power. Capitalists benefit by gaining willing workers and people unwilling to challenge their power.