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What is the Point of School?

Just meant is it how we teach our children to think about our society what it is to be American, of the Western Mindset, Liberal, Conservative, Other, etc?
Ah. Yeah, I mean we even have specific classes on that, civics and the like. Yeah, unfortunately it all felt woefully liberal biased to me, and philosophy and much of politics is bull**** written by bull****ters.
 
yeah...I tried that a couple of times. out of the 200 or so cards I sent home...I usually only got 15-20 back.

I made it their first graded homework. LOL For the few who failed to return with one after that, I would get a home number from administration and call the parents. That fixed the problem fairly quickly. ;)
 
I made it their first graded homework. LOL For the few who failed to return with one after that, I would get a home number from administration and call the parents. That fixed the problem fairly quickly. ;)

So how much do training do educators get in leadership and management? And do teachers feel responsible for leading and managing students to be successful, or do they think that's the role of parents?
 
I made it their first graded homework. LOL For the few who failed to return with one after that, I would get a home number from administration and call the parents. That fixed the problem fairly quickly. ;)

yeah, tried that as well...most of them just didn't give a ****. Called parents at home and they got pissed because I was "bothering them".
 
So how much do training do educators get in leadership and management? And do teachers feel responsible for leading and managing students to be successful, or do they think that's the role of parents?

Not so very much actually. Most certification training is on how best to present course materials. You do spend a period of time as a student teacher, but just how much "front of the class" time you get depends entirely on the teacher you are assigned to.

I had gotten my "leadership and management" experience after 8 years as an army officer. You often deal with very young personnel (17 - 19) when serving as a leader in the military. That wasn't quite the same thing, but it helped.

P.S. I didn't address your second question..sorry. I think many teachers, especially when they are first starting out, do try very hard to provide leadership and counseling for their students. Once upon a time teachers were also expected to provide guidance on morals and discipline too. Society has since turned away from those ideas, but still demands much of each teacher in these regards. It's one of the most frustrating things about trying to teach...meeting such expectations without the tools, training, or support.
 
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yeah, tried that as well...most of them just didn't give a ****. Called parents at home and they got pissed because I was "bothering them".

That's very true. I found that to be the case in some instances. There were various work-arounds, but when those parents came to school to try to lay blame I was ready with the "mirror of reflection." I'd simply point out the contract, the syllabus, my contacts with them, etc., and asked them what more they expected me to do? :confused: LOL
 
That's very true. I found that to be the case in some instances. There were various work-arounds, but when those parents came to school to try to lay blame I was ready with the "mirror of reflection." I'd simply point out the contract, the syllabus, my contacts with them, etc., and asked them what more they expected me to do? :confused: LOL

Had a parent teacher confo once where mom came in to discuss her son's abysmal performance. me, mom, principal and "junior". (not that it's relevant but was funny as hell: mom was around 250 pounds, showed up in daisy dukes and a wife beater T sans bra) Principal asked mom a question and she starts answering, junionr looks at her and says "shut the F*** up" ...and she does. I looked at the principal and said "there's your problem". got up and walked out.
 
Every single P/T conference there's always at least 3 or 4 times when I think, "Oooooooh..... now I understand why your kid is so messed up. YOU."
 
Not sure what you find so humorous. Care to enlighten me?

Frankly, I find you humorous.

That you could say something so patently stupid with a straight face is laughable.

I also found it kind of telling that you'd fixate on a defense against the racial remark but not address the 90% of my comment that related directly to gender.

Honestly, I read most of your comments with a simple eye to the ignorant shock value that they'll potentially add to any conversation. When you come through, I laugh at you.
 
Every single P/T conference there's always at least 3 or 4 times when I think, "Oooooooh..... now I understand why your kid is so messed up. YOU."

I once had a female student that was a 21 y/o senior. All she had to do was pass my class to graduate. she was not. her mother came by my classroom one afternoon (apparently she worked as a stripper, judging by the way she was dressed ;) ) and told me, in no uncertain terms, that she had to get the girl graduated and out of the house. she would do ANYTHING (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) it took to ensure that daughter passed my class.
 
I also found it kind of telling that you'd fixate on a defense against the racial remark but not address the 90% of my comment that related directly to gender.

The vast majority of your comment about women was 100% correct, so there was no need to comment on it or "correct" it. The problem with your comment was that you included race/skin color along with gender as a discriminatory factor.

Honestly, I read most of your comments with a simple eye to the ignorant shock value that they'll potentially add to any conversation. When you come through, I laugh at you.

That's fine. Keep right on laughing. It makes you folks easier to defeat in the end when you treat those of us with a clear view of what this nation should be like fools or clowns. You'll laugh yourself right out of existance.
 
Not so very much actually. Most certification training is on how best to present course materials. You do spend a period of time as a student teacher, but just how much "front of the class" time you get depends entirely on the teacher you are assigned to.
That's a damn shame if that's the case. I would think educators with all this philosophy and academic elitism would have abstracted out the fact that teaching is largely management/leadership. Teachers are basically running operations of a 20-50 person team, whose output is supposed to be a good education. That would be really challenging without that sort of training.

Sometimes I think most schools should end up more like the military in terms of very rigid rules and discipline, but geared of course towards learning. I think some people get confused when they imagine little robots, or oppressive rules that stifle creativity, etc. Meanwhile nearly anyone who is REALLY creative (not in their mind, but in reality), knows very well that it is an AMAZINGLY hard discipline and structure that affords them that creativity. (isolating themselves, writing every day, etc.)
 
she would do ANYTHING (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) it took to ensure that daughter passed my class.
Hey she saw that on Forest Gump.
 
12th grade down...Basically these grade levels are nothing more than fundamental information centers.

Higher learning school (batch degrees) primary purpose is to facilitate an environment where individuals learn to teach themselves more complex information over the course of their lives.

Graduate level is to purchase even more complex and technical information.

Whether one retains the information and competently applies it?????
 
Blaming teachers for the problems in education is like blaming doctors for people getting sick...... ;)
 
Blaming teachers for the problems in education is like blaming doctors for people getting sick...... ;)

Well, doctors could be to blame for people staying sick, but I agree that it's not the doctor that starts the problem.
 
That's fine. Keep right on laughing. It makes you folks easier to defeat in the end when you treat those of us with a clear view of what this nation should be like fools or clowns. You'll laugh yourself right out of existance.

The last 237 years of this nation's history would lead me to believe something quite different.

For the most part the United States has enjoyed a steady, albeit not always terribly swift, march toward tollerance, equality, inclusuion, and progressivism.

The clowns and fools have bemoaned that fact all the way along.

But being fools and clowns they and their "ideas" are usually defeated pretty soundly.

Meanwhile, over in the Middle East, fools or clowns are considered Mullahs and Imams and they pretty much call the shots.

You might want to consider moving to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.

I think your ignorant, repressive, bigoted, theocratic ideas would be a lot more welcome there than they are here.

And it would probably be nice for you to be part of the "winning team" for a change.

Anyhow, as I was saying, LMMFAO.
 
Meanwhile, over in the Middle East, fools or clowns are considered Mullahs and Imams and they pretty much call the shots. You might want to consider moving to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. I think your ignorant, repressive, bigoted, theocratic ideas would be a lot more welcome there than they are here. And it would probably be nice for you to be part of the "winning team" for a change.

It's been looked into. Unfortunately, because of people like YOU, those countries are not interested in offering citizenship to current American citizens. Especially ones who are not religious by nature, nevermind Islamist in particular. So, it would seem that we are stuck with each other, as much as neither one of us likes the idea.

Anyhow, as I was saying, LMMFAO.

Laugh all you want, it just makes you a bigger target.
 
What you are talking about is advanced education, which is a function of our College and University system, not our elementary education system. Elementary Education (through age 14 or so) should provide the basic building blocks. From there the track needs to diverge much more than it does now. Tracks should be available for College Prepatory, Trades/Apprenticeship, Service Work, and for the ladies - Home and Family Management. This allows people to focus on the skills and abilities relevant to them without wasting their time on unnecessary information.

And how many of those scientists et al. went to elementary school?
 
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