What is deadnaming, and how to avoid it

[Lisa]

Interesting article in the OP. It does bring up a question similar to what Arcadia asked in post 2. Do transgenders who are famous expect history to be rewritten to reflect their current names? In the case of Arcadia's question, did " Bruce Jenner win Olympic gold or did Caitlin Jenner? As far as I know no one knew Jenner was a transgender. It makes no sense to go back and change Olympic records. Bruce won the gold. History can show that Jenner became Caitlin later in life.

Maybe such an article guide should be written for transgenders on how to talk with people who are not transgender and may not accept them.

Have you ever asked people that you meet if they accept you? What exactly does it mean to accept someone? Is there a public list of people who are accepted?

Bruce was a character that Caitlyn was forced to play until the pain of playing that character became intolerable and Bruce refused to do so any longer and said that he was never Bruce but instead was always Caitlyn, despite the fact that she was kept hidden from 99.9% people for 60 years.

 

[mike2810]

Have you ever asked people that you meet if they accept you? What exactly does it mean to accept someone? Is there a public list of people who are accepted?

Bruce was a character that Caitlyn was forced to play until the pain of playing that character became intolerable and Bruce refused to do so any longer and said that he was never Bruce but instead was always Caitlyn, despite the fact that she was kept hidden from 99.9% people for 60 years.

I have read that about Bruce.
Still begs the question, does society owe it to Bruce and go and amend the records to Caitlyn?

The OP article discussed what non trans should do when talking to a transgender. My point a similar article should be written discussing how transgenders should deal with people who are not.

 

[Lisa]

I have read that about Bruce.
Still begs the question, does society owe it to Bruce and go and amend the records to Caitlyn?

The OP article discussed what nontrans should do when talking to a transgender. My point a similar article should be written discussing how transgenders should deal with people who are not.

Anyone can change their name. Its a matter of $200.00 and a few pages of paperwork at the county courthouse. What does it matter to you if someone changes their name? I changed my name after the separation.

There isn't a secret book about talking to trans people. Treat them as you would want to be treated and use the pronouns that they request.

How do you want transgendered people to talk to you? Has that been a problem in the past for you or anyone else?

 

[mike2810]

Anyone can change their name. Its a matter of $200.00 and a few pages of paperwork at the county courthouse. What does it matter to you if someone changes their name? I changed my name after the separation.

There isn't a secret book about talking to trans people. Treat them as you would want to be treated and use the pronouns that they request.

How do you want transgendered people to talk to you? Has that been a problem in the past for you or anyone else?

Bruce did more than change his name.

I treat people as they treat me. I will admit I have been uncomfortable around some transgenders but not all. The ones that made me uncomfortable had some other issues they were dealing with.

It would be interesting to ask the author of the OP linked article why was it written.

 

[Lisa]

Bruce did more than change his name.

I treat people as they treat me. I will admit I have been uncomfortable around some transgenders but not all. The ones that made me uncomfortable had some other issues they were dealing with.

It would be interesting to ask the author of the OP linked article why was it written.

Do you now want your input into the medical and psychological choices and lives of other people? Do you have any relevant medical degree?

Many trans people have other issues because it is not an easy process and many have been the subject of abuse and bullying because of bigots.

 

[mike2810]

Do you now want your input into the medical and psychological choices and lives of other people? Do you have any relevant medical degree?

Many trans people have other issues because it is not an easy process and many have been the subject of abuse and bullying because of bigots.

You seem to have a problem with me. Why is that? Is it because I do not share the exact same beliefs as you.

I stated how I treat people. I stated that some transgender have made me uncomfortable and some have not.
Don't have much more to say about the article.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Interesting article in the OP. It does bring up a question similar to what Arcadia asked in post 2. Do transgenders who are famous expect history to be rewritten to reflect their current names? In the case of Arcadia's question, did " Bruce Jenner win Olympic gold or did Caitlin Jenner? As far as I know no one knew Jenner was a transgender. It makes no sense to go back and change Olympic records. Bruce won the gold. History can show that Jenner became Caitlin later in life.

Maybe such an article guide should be written for transgenders on how to talk with people who are not transgender and may not accept them.

Did "Switched on Bach" get produced by Walter or Wendy Carlos?
The modern equivalent of a history book says Wendy, and that's good enough.
Nobody expects a team of scribes to search out all the thirty year old books and Sharpie the name in.

 

[Lisa]

You seem to have a problem with me. Why is that? Is it because I do not share the exact same beliefs as you.

I stated how I treat people. I stated that some transgender have made me uncomfortable and some have not.
Don't have much more to say about the article.

I find it hard to believe that people cannot treat others as equals but instead seek to find reasons to treat others as less than equals. You do not know what their lives have been like but even treating them as you would expect to be treated, as per the Golden Rule seems to be a problem for some people.

Do you think that trans people are going to go away if you don't deal with the subject that seems to make you a bit uncomfortable because maybe you don't like the idea of human sexuality is not as simple and binary as you have been lead to believe that it is? Maybe you want all LGBTIQ rounded up and shipped off to an island where they are out of sight.

Trans people are a lot like you and they have struggled on a day to day just like you. They were born with a med-psych condition that is not of their choosing and they want to live the best quality of life, just as you do. The current treatment has many downsides but it won't go away if it is not treated so they have to accept a less than perfect quality of life but still you want to treat them like second-class citizens because of it. They would love to have been born whole and CIS but that didnt happen and no amount of wishing is going to change it.

 

[Phys251]

Actually not so simple, as some might believe. A lot depends upon how long one has been using the previous name, as well as how mentally flexible they are. Mind you that lack of "mental flexibility", as a I called it, is not an indication of one's intent towards the trans individual. You can be highly supportive of them and their transitioning, but still have issues getting your mental paths to change over to the newer name. For some if the name is too close to the old one, such as going from Joan to John, it makes it harder. For others the opposite, going from Alex to Heather, is harder. Some people can easily shift names, but not pronouns, especially if they are not the standard ones.

The biggest issue is not whether a person deadnames, but if there is ill intent behind it. Too many people are vilifying those who make errors as opposed to refusal to change. Personally, if you harp on me for a mistake, instead of a gentle correction, I would be more apt to shut down on efforts. Anyone who can't respect that I can make a mistake doesn't deserve the respect of having their preferences met. If you make an effort with me, I will give you all I can.

The mental effort needed to simply change the name one uses for a person is infinitely easier than the obstacles that trans people have to navigate every single day. What a simple and easy step to help humanize another person! That's what should be focused on.

 

[Phys251]

Interesting article in the OP. It does bring up a question similar to what Arcadia asked in post 2. Do transgenders who are famous expect history to be rewritten to reflect their current names? In the case of Arcadia's question, did " Bruce Jenner win Olympic gold or did Caitlin Jenner? As far as I know no one knew Jenner was a transgender. It makes no sense to go back and change Olympic records. Bruce won the gold. History can show that Jenner became Caitlin later in life.

Maybe such an article guide should be written for transgenders on how to talk with people who are not transgender and may not accept them.

You wouldn't be expected to come up with a convincing argument to defend who you are so that you won't be discriminated against, would you? Of course not. So it is with a trans person as well.

 

[maquiscat]

The mental effort needed to simply change the name one uses for a person is infinitely easier than the obstacles that trans people have to navigate every single day. What a simple and easy step to help humanize another person! That's what should be focused on.

You can claim it all you want, but that simply isn't universal. Or more to point, while yes trans people have a hell of a lot to deal with comparatively, being dismissive of others' issues with transitions of anything is basically playing a tit for tat game. Making errors is not dehumanizing anyone. Doing things on purpose is. It is just as dehumanizing to berate people for honest struggle with the change, as it is to purposely dismiss the change.

 

[calamity]

**** Ellen Page and the delusion she rides.
I am not going to be a participant in her delusion and mental illness.

Why does what Ellen Page says bother you so much?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Like I said, deadnaming is pretty much just telling that person that they don't exist, they're not human.
It a bit similar to a woman who divorces a spouse and then remarries and changes her last name but everyone still calls her by the name of her last husband.
That would be a direct insult to both the woman and her new husband.
Well, insisting on calling Zoey Tur "Bob Tur" is an insult to Zoey, saying Zoey does not exist or isn't human and is undeserving of human dignity or human rights.

Unfortunately not everyone has a combat background like Zoey Tur so not every trans woman can kick a person's ass for deadnaming them.

 

[Excon]

Is that a biblical quote? Didn’t Jesus say that to a begger?

Hey look at that.
You are capable of asking questions that are as dumb as they are irrelevant.
Good for you.

---

Why does what Ellen Page says bother you so much?

So much? iLOL No. Just enough to make a post because it was a topic of discussion.
Wanting others to participate in a delusion should bother everyone. But since leftists do that all the time, you already know that. Or did you forget?

 

[calamity]

So much? iLOL No. Just enough to make a post because it was a topic of discussion.
Wanting others to participate in a delusion should bother everyone. But since leftists do that all the time, you already know that. Or did you forget?

Do you have even a shred of evidence supporting the ridiculously ignorant claim that transgenderism is a "delusion"?

 

[Excon]

Do you have even a shred of evidence supporting the ridiculously ignorant claim that transgenderism is a "delusion"?

You mean like their own chromosomes proving the person is indeed biologically opposite of what they are falsely claiming?

 

[Lisa]

You mean like their own chromosomes proving the person is indeed biologically opposite of what they are falsely claiming?

If it was a delusion they would be treated with meds for delusions............


And they would not have the brains of their defined gender, which they do, or is neurology not science in your part of the world? Our DNA and chromosomes are just one part of our gender.

When the biological gender of our DNA and the psychological gender identity in our brains don't align, then the person is transgdered.

Male, female and transgender brains

“The male and female brain have structural differences,” he says. Men and women tend to have different volumes in certain areas of the brain.


“When we look at the transgender brain, we see that the brain resembles the gender that the person identifies as,” Dr. Altinay says. For example, a person who is born with a penis but ends up identifying as a female often actually has some of the structural characteristics of a “female” brain.


And the brain similarities aren’t only structural.


“We’re also finding some functional similarities between the transgender brain and its identified gender,” Dr. Altinay says.


In studies that use MRIs to take images of the brain as people perform tasks, the brain activity of transgender people tends to look like that of the gender they identify with.

Understanding Gender Identity

There’s so much diversity in how we identify ourselves and the way we express love for one another. Understanding gender identity can only aid us in our journey to better know ourselves, and others.

health.clevelandclinic.org

Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to new research. The findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool for earlier identification of transgenderism in young people.

Transgender brains are more like their desired gender from an early age

Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to new research. The findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool...

www.sciencedaily.com

 

[Excon]

If it was a delusion they would be treated with meds for delusions............

Is that what you assume? iLOL That's nice.

 

[Lisa]

Is that what you assume? iLOL That's nice.

If you claimed it was just a deluision. That was tried in the past and it wasn't effective.

 

[calamity]

You mean like their own chromosomes proving the person is indeed biologically opposite of what they are falsely claiming?

So, the "delusion" comment in your post cannot be supported by science. I see. So, it was just another ignorant comment pulled out of the butt. Thanks for making that clear.

 

[Excon]

So, your "delusion" comment cannot be supported by science. I see. So, it was just another ignorant comment pulled out of your butt. Thanks for making that clear.

What an absurd reply.
You do not think biology is science based? That's dumb.

 

[Lisa]

What an absurd reply.
You do not think biology is science based? That's dumb.

Is neurology not a medical science?

Neurology is the branch of medicine concerned with the study and treatment of disorders of the nervous system. The nervous system is a complex, sophisticated system that regulates and coordinates body activities. It has two major divisions: Central nervous system: the brain and spinal cord.

What is a Neurologist? - Neurology - Highland Hospital - University of Rochester Medical Center

www.urmc.rochester.edu

You can call Dr. Murat Altiney at the Cleveland Clinic and argue with him. I'm certain Dr. Altiney will be amused by your theories.

Murat Altinay, MD | Cleveland Clinic

Find professional and biographical information about Cleveland Clinic physician Murat Altinay, MD

my.clevelandclinic.org

 

[Excon]

Is neurology not a medical science?

Hilarious.
That in no way changes her biology.

 

[Lisa]

Hilarious.
That in no way changes her biology.

Her DNA doesn't change because it is not medically possible at this time to change it but you don't see a person's DNA when you meet them. You see their appearance, their grooming, and their dress and how they carry themslves. Trans people would love to change their DNA but it is not medically possible to do with the current medical technology.

 

[Excon]

but you don't see a person's DNA when you meet them.

Irrelevant.

Trans people would love to change their DNA but it is not medically possible to do with the current medical technology.

Yes. I know what their illness causes them to think and even do. Your arguments are not persuasive
Men are not women, and women are not men.