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What does "Liberal" mean?

yz89

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I'm going to compare "Liberal" model with "Islamic" model.
Please help me to do this in an independent rational simple english sentences.

Thanks in advance....
 

Deuce

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I'm going to compare "Liberal" model with "Islamic" model.
Please help me to do this in an independent rational simple english sentences.

Thanks in advance....
You're not going to get a rational definition of liberal from any of the conservatives around here.
 

joe six-pack

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I'm going to compare "Liberal" model with "Islamic" model.
Please help me to do this in an independent rational simple english sentences.

Thanks in advance....
You have to keep in mind that political labels like "Liberal" have social, legal and economic meanings.

As it concerns social policies, a Liberal and a Muslim would be opposites, since Muslims are socially very conservative.

Liberals are also very different from Muslims when it comes to the Law and Government. Liberals believe the Government should, above all else, protect personal Liberties. That means the freedom to practice religion or not practice any religion. It also represents the equal treatment of men and women (and homosexuals) and people of all color and culture under the Law. I know that Sharia Law is similar to Moses' Law in the Bible and Torah, that it's a system of religious Laws merged with the State Courts and Government. Both Liberals and US Conservatives would be highly against this idea. Although some US Conservatives have suggested Christianity become a State religion, these people are a minority.

Both Liberals and Conservatives believe in personal freedom, the US Constitution and the absence of Government oppression in the Law. We just have disagreements about what is and is not "oppressive." In the US, Liberals take up the side of woman's rights and minority rights issues. But in reality, both ideologies respect personal freedom for everyone. In general, US Conservatives believe the Government should only be big enough to run the Military and Court system. Liberals believe Education and civil services should also be the role of Government.

Much like Islam, Christianity and Judaism. All three religions worship the God who spoke to Abraham, Moses and Jesus.
 
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Geo Patric

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I'm going to compare "Liberal" model with "Islamic" model.
Please help me to do this in an independent rational simple english sentences.

Thanks in advance....
you are asking others to qualify your ideologocal prejudice?

bite me. when you want to discuss what liberalism really is... lemme know.

geo
 

Donc

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you are asking others to qualify your ideologocal prejudice?

bite me. when you want to discuss what liberalism really is... lemme know.

geo
How did you manage to come up with (you are asking others to qualify your ideologocal prejudice )that with the op? :confused:
 

Donc

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You have to keep in mind that political labels like "Liberal" have social, legal and economic meanings.

As it concerns social policies, a Liberal and a Muslim would be opposites, since Muslims are socially very conservative.

Liberals are also very different from Muslims when it comes to the Law and Government. Liberals believe the Government should, above all else, protect personal Liberties. That means the freedom to practice religion or not practice any religion. It also represents the equal treatment of men and women (and homosexuals) and people of all color and culture under the Law. I know that Sharia Law is similar to Moses' Law in the Bible and Torah, that it's a system of religious Laws merged with the State Courts and Government. Both Liberals and US Conservatives would be highly against this idea. Although some US Conservatives have suggested Christianity become a State religion, these people are a minority.

Both Liberals and Conservatives believe in personal freedom, the US Constitution and the absence of Government oppression in the Law. We just have disagreements about what is and is not "oppressive." In the US, Liberals take up the side of woman's rights and minority rights issues. But in reality, both ideologies respect personal freedom for everyone. In general, US Conservatives believe the Government should only be big enough to run the Military and Court system. Liberals believe Education and civil services should also be the role of Government.

Much like Islam, Christianity and Judaism. All three religions worship the God who spoke to Abraham, Moses and Jesus.
Thanks for this intelligent response Joe. :2wave:
 

yz89

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You have to keep in mind that political labels like "Liberal" have social, legal and economic meanings.

As it concerns social policies, a Liberal and a Muslim would be opposites, since Muslims are socially very conservative.

Liberals are also very different from Muslims when it comes to the Law and Government. Liberals believe the Government should, above all else, protect personal Liberties. That means the freedom to practice religion or not practice any religion. It also represents the equal treatment of men and women (and homosexuals) and people of all color and culture under the Law. I know that Sharia Law is similar to Moses' Law in the Bible and Torah, that it's a system of religious Laws merged with the State Courts and Government. Both Liberals and US Conservatives would be highly against this idea. Although some US Conservatives have suggested Christianity become a State religion, these people are a minority.

Both Liberals and Conservatives believe in personal freedom, the US Constitution and the absence of Government oppression in the Law. We just have disagreements about what is and is not "oppressive." In the US, Liberals take up the side of woman's rights and minority rights issues. But in reality, both ideologies respect personal freedom for everyone. In general, US Conservatives believe the Government should only be big enough to run the Military and Court system. Liberals believe Education and civil services should also be the role of Government.

Much like Islam, Christianity and Judaism. All three religions worship the God who spoke to Abraham, Moses and Jesus.
I learned from your post, thank you...
Let's continue please with this question that "What is the liberalism idea in death? i.e. What happen to human after the death in liberal model?"

Thanks again
 

yz89

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you are asking others to qualify your ideologocal prejudice?

bite me. when you want to discuss what liberalism really is... lemme know.

geo
I don't know anything about Liberal and I'm going to know some and compare it with Islam.
 

spud_meister

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I learned from your post, thank you...
Let's continue please with this question that "What is the liberalism idea in death? i.e. What happen to human after the death in liberal model?"

Thanks again
That's largely irrelevant to the Liberal ideology, simply because it's a metaphysical/religious question, where as Liberalism is purely a political and economical viewpoint, than keeps religion and politics separate, so, in conclusion, the Liberal philosophy on life after death is whatever the particular liberal in question believes.
 

yz89

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That's largely irrelevant to the Liberal ideology, simply because it's a metaphysical/religious question, where as Liberalism is purely a political and economical viewpoint, than keeps religion and politics separate, so, in conclusion, the Liberal philosophy on life after death is whatever the particular liberal in question believes.
I'm going to get the idea, thank you...

You told that Liberal is purely a political and economical viewpoint. Political and economical issues are strongly tied to the question, "What happen after death?". For example, if one person don't beilieve the life after death, he/she tries to maximum his/her money in an economic system and other person who beilieve the life after death may don't do this.

So, how Liberal can proof itself as a true model while it doesn't have any idea in human's death?
 

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I'm going to get the idea, thank you...

You told that Liberal is purely a political and economical viewpoint. Political and economical issues are strongly tied to the question, "What happen after death?". For example, if one person don't beilieve the life after death, he/she tries to maximum his/her money in an economic system and other person who beilieve the life after death may don't do this.

So, how Liberal can proof itself as a true model while it doesn't have any idea in human's death?
It isn't to do with believing in life after death, it is in having a social conscience. Generally speaking I think people who are considered liberals have more of a social conscience than others ----although as has already been said the term liberal has many different meanings. Being totally Liberal in the market would for instance mean the survival of the fittest but not necessarily the most decent.

But with regards to what you are speaking about liberals believe more in social justice and I think the belief that if you treat people fairly and in particular give them equality of opportunities, generally you will have a just society without too much civil unrest. Now getting enough people to be liberal in this way can be a problem and working for people to have a social conscience and for social justice is I believe much more needed today than it was 30 years or so ago when people were more into it.

Liberal society would work well with Islam when it is working for personal spirituality. In my own opinion that is real spirituality because you come to your own understanding yourself through your experiences...in that way I would say that at it's base liberal society has the framework to be a genuine spiritual society.

One further point, who was it, Rousseau or Socrates who said 'you can judge how just a society is by the severity of it's laws. The more severe, the less just.' I believe that.
 
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d0gbreath

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If you have to be told what liberal means, you wouldn't understand anyway.
 

yz89

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It isn't to do with believing in life after death, it is in having a social conscience. Generally speaking I think people who are considered liberals have more of a social conscience than others ----although as has already been said the term liberal has many different meanings. Being totally Liberal in the market would for instance mean the survival of the fittest but not necessarily the most decent.

But with regards to what you are speaking about liberals believe more in social justice and I think the belief that if you treat people fairly and in particular give them equality of opportunities, generally you will have a just society without too much civil unrest. Now getting enough people to be liberal in this way can be a problem and working for people to have a social conscience and for social justice is I believe much more needed today than it was 30 years or so ago when people were more into it.

Liberal society would work well with Islam when it is working for personal spirituality. In my own opinion that is real spirituality because you come to your own understanding yourself through your experiences...in that way I would say that at it's base liberal society has the framework to be a genuine spiritual society.

One further point, who was it, Rousseau or Socrates who said 'you can judge how just a society is by the severity of it's laws. The more severe, the less just.' I believe that.
Thank you for your replies, let's describe my problem more...

Actually, I love some aspects of west culture, for example let's focus on this issue, "dancing with a woman".

When I think about this, dancing with who I love, I feel a deep love in my heart, I don't mean a sexual feel but something
else which I cannot describe it well. anyway, I'm sure it's a true feel not a false or bad feel. I'm sure it's a feel from the God
not the Evil.

OK, let's analyze this issue in two models, Islamic and Liberal:

LIBERAL MODEL: As I know so far, in this model which is the operating system of the west culture, if I and the woman
want to dance then we can dance together and it's not a crime. In this model, I can ask my workmate to dance and if she
accepted then we can dance together, then we can have a coffee and in result happy times and good work. I love this
aspect of this model, please consider that I don't mean sexual issues at all but I mean this "personal freedom" is interesting
for me. i.e. the human's interests are the pivot of this model.

ISLAMIC MODEL: In this model which is the operating system of the recent Iranian culture, this is not allowed even when I
and my workmate want to dance. It's because God's rules are the pivot of this model instead of the human's interests. In
this model, the dance is only valid between wifes. This model believe that the earth's life is not enough and is not for such
these issues but the world after the death, good humans can dance with womens in heaven and have happy time forever.
Yes, this is the heaven for who was good in earth and did good there, in this model.

And the problem is that I love some aspects of Liberal and some of Islamic. I want to live like Al-Pacino (the above picture)
while I know that some of aspects of Islamic model are really rational and have a powerful logic behind. So, this paradox
causes that I asked about Liberal model.

You're from the west and know west culture well, so, please help me that how I can solve this paradox?
 

yz89

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Any one can help?:(
 

d0gbreath

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Liberal is a political/cultural viewpoint. Islamic is a religious viewpoint. The two cannot be compared.

Baylor University in Waco, Texas is fundamentally a Baptist College (religious). They don't have dances there because they don't allow dancing. This is very similar to the Islamic viewpoint (belief).

If you want to live like Al Pachino, take acting lessons.
 

Geo Patric

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How did you manage to come up with (you are asking others to qualify your ideologocal prejudice )that with the op? :confused:
the OP wants to compare a specifically secular social movement that developed into a policy approach to a religious idelology? This by muslim who lives in a muslim nation that regularly condemns liberalism and who acknowledges that he.she knows nothing about liberalism?

and you want to know why i would think such a question limited by prejudice? neither you nor i could address this without a preexisting ideological prejusice. he cannot ask it without a preexistent ideological prejudice as he acknowledges.

He wants to live like Al-Pacino, he wants to be able to dance with his girlfriend but the ****ing imams won't let him. so... that somehow puts liberalism at question? sorry, he wants someone to tell him what he wants to hear, to provide for him the justification for something he already knows is justified but cannot acknowledge because of religious fear, in other words, to validate his prejudices.

must be time for lunch.
geo.
 
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Donc

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the OP wants to compare a specifically secular social movement that developed into a policy approach to a religious idelology? This by muslim who lives in a muslim nation that regularly condemns liberalism and who acknowledges that he.she knows nothing about liberalism?

and you want to know why i would think such a question limited by prejudice? neither you nor i could address this without a preexisting ideological prejusice. he cannot ask it without a preexistent ideological prejudice as he acknowledges.

He wants to live like Al-Pacino, he wants to be able to dance with his girlfriend but the ****ing imams won't let him. so... that somehow puts liberalism at question? sorry, he wants someone to tell him what he wants to hear, to provide for him the justification for something he already knows is justified but cannot acknowledge because of religious fear, in other words, to validate his prejudices.

must be time for lunch.
geo.
Looks to me like something is/was lost on the translation (software?)then add that my bs antenna just hit tilt. Kinda makes me go HHmmm.
 

Geo Patric

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you think i may have overreacted?

well, maybe.

wouldn't be the first time.

geo.
 

Donc

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you think i may have overreacted?

well, maybe.

wouldn't be the first time.

geo.

Been there, done that, more times than i can count.:(
 

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Being a Liberal means you never say you're sorry for for you're hypocrisy, and lying, bearing false witness, name calling, trying to get pedophiles released early from jail so they can murder children, for opposing the death penalty so Murderers can come up for Parole, for always wanting to waste other peoples money , and tax and spend, for telling minorities they have been mistreated and they never had a choices, and were held back by Republicans so they need to be on welfare even though it was the democrats who fought all the civil rights legislation and last but not least for supporting the the Amateur in Chief Obama.

Not that many apologies aren't in order it's just that they will never come because the Liberals are shameless.

I think about covers it
 
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spud_meister

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I hope you don't mean me because I equate liberal with dum ass mostly. But then there are a few very rare exceptions, though I haven't seen one since Obama & Biden came on the scene.
Yes, I'm talking about you, every criticism you listed, every bad joke you post, every stupid picture, you always equate Liberal with democrat, you're so completely partisan you're blind to even the obvious nuance, being that the majority of Liberals are not democrats, nor are they even American. Liberal is an ideology, democrat is a party.
 
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Councilman

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Yes, I'm talking about you, every criticism you listed, every bad joke you post, every stupid picture, you always equate Liberal with democrat, you're so completely partisan you're blind to even the obvious nuance, being that the majority of Liberals are not democrats, nor are they even American. Liberal is an ideology, democrat is a party.
And the only ones we are talking about unless otherwise spelled out are Americans and yes there are a very few Democrats who are not Liberal.

Most of the E.U. is in trouble and about to fold because of Liberalism and none of them are American Democrats as far as I know.

Furthermore you are accusing me of being completely Partisan which is to assume I am a Republican which is just as big and error as you accuse me of.

If the shoe doesn't fit then don't put it on, because that falls into the category of. "Methinks tho dost protest too much."

Try not to get over overly excited.

An online dictionary says this:
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

2.( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.

Note number 2. "noting or pertaining to a political party." so I was not wrong.
 
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Teh Internets

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And the only ones we are talking about unless otherwise spelled out are Americans and yes there are a very few Democrats who are not Liberal.

Most of the E.U. is in trouble and about to fold because of Liberalism and none of them are American Democrats as far as I know.

Furthermore you are accusing me of being completely Partisan which is to assume I am a Republican which is just as big and error as you accuse me of.

If the shoe doesn't fit then don't put it on, because that falls into the category of. "Methinks tho dost protest too much."

Try not to get over overly excited.

An online dictionary says this:
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

2.( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.

Note number 2. "noting or pertaining to a political party." so I was not wrong.
Explain to me how the entire Eu is collapsing.
 
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