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What about Organized Religion turns you off?

Muffinz!

Muffinz!

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What about organized religion turns you off? Any religion will do.

For me the corruption that supposedly honorable religious figures have dealt in, the betrayal of the people, the lying to the people, and overall grief that Organized Religion has caused.

How about you?



People who just love organized religion please stay away. This thread is not meant for you. :)
 
Muffinz! said:
What about organized religion turns you off? Any religion will do.

For me the corruption that supposedly honorable religious figures have dealt in, the betrayal of the people, the lying to the people, and overall grief that Organized Religion has caused.

How about you?



People who just love organized religion please stay away. This thread is not meant for you. :)
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The system I was a part of for several days ago was spiritually abusive. I would never go back, and even now have anxiety the two times a year I might go to church with my daughter.
 
The way it tends to discourage questioning, discovery, and knowledge. The way it tends to be violent towards "outsiders" of any kind. The way it shames people for all manner of things outside their control (a brilliant tactic for keeping them dependent, not unlike what an abusive spouse does - re-enforce worthlessness and make the victim believe they need you in order to be ok).

Just about everything.
 
"Organized Religion" covers a lot of ground.

Some OR's are hierarchial, authoritative, top-down and have an unquestionable leader. This has obvious problems.

Other "ORs" are simply local gatherings of believers who like to congregate with like-minded people for mutual support... much like any other group with a shared intrest.

Don't lump all of them together.
 
Differentiation.

Breaking the Silence on an Abuse Within the Church That Leaves Christians Feeling "Used," Manipulated and Shamed.

Churches are meant to be safe places where spiritual leaders help and equip the members for the work of service. There are some churches, however, where leaders use their spiritual authority to control and dominate others, attempting to meet their own needs for importance, power, intimacy or spiritual gratification. Through the subtle use of the right "spiritual" words, church members are manipulated or shamed into certain behaviors or performance that ensnares in legalism, guilt and begrudging service.

This is spiritual abuse, and the results can be shattering. Deeply ingrained spiritual codes of written and unwritten rules control and condemn, wounding believers' spirits and keeping them from the grace and joy of God's kingdom. Believers find themselves enslaved to a system, a leader, a standard of performance that saps true spiritual life.
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From the book "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse."
 
I guy on stage telling me how to live my life. The need that a God needs my money. Corruption. Hypocritical messages. And the whole "heathen" thing.
 
Muffinz! said:
What about organized religion turns you off? Any religion will do.

For me the corruption that supposedly honorable religious figures have dealt in, the betrayal of the people, the lying to the people, and overall grief that Organized Religion has caused.

How about you?

People who just love organized religion please stay away. This thread is not meant for you. :)
Click to expand...
Nothing about it turns me off in general. I've had positive and negative experiences with it. I grew up in a church that encouraged independent thought, respected questioning and welcomed people of all faiths while acknowledging that it did not have all the answers. However, I went to Catholic schools where the exact opposite was taught by the priests who instructed me. There's nothing bad about organized religion in and of itself - it's how people choose to use it that determines its impact. Generalizations about "organized religion" don't acknowledge that fact.
 
As an Anarchist, I'm philosophically opposed to monolithic concentrations of power. However, equally significant is the fundamental irrationality of religion, and the social chaos that ensues from it.
 
I don't know that I can really answer this, simply because I'm not against organized religion, I'm against all religion regardless of organization. Believing anything without significant objective evidence is problematic. Organized religion simply takes advantage of people who are unable to critically evaluate the world around them. There is a great potential there for abuse.
 
You guys do realize, don't you, that Jesus established the genesis of an organized, hierarchical Church, modelled on the Family of God, Israel?

Jesus chose apostles, made Peter the leader, and gave them authorities that all the other disciples did not have. Later, in Acts, the hierarchy develops further. The apostles appoint Deacons (greek - diakonos ), Priests (greek - presbyteros ), and Bishops (greek - episkopos), and each have different duties. It is the same today in the Catholic Church.

This is a perfection of Israel's pyramid, with Abraham at top, then the fathers of the twelve tribes, then the lesser clans. Israel, the People of God, were the Family of God, and they were truly family by blood. When Jesus expanded the covenant to all peoples, the Family of God became bound by spirit, not just blood, but the structure was the same. That is why we call priests "father, call each other brothers and sisters, and so forth.

What many of you call "organization" is actually the family structure of the Church, the Family of God.

And on a lesser, administrative level, organization is a neccessity. Even if you have a single, one-building unaffiliated church, you need a secratary, someone to pay the bills, someone to habdle paperwork. Of course, Christ's Church was intended top span the globe, and with a global organization comes..... ......well, comes global organization.

The idea of un-organized religion is a pipe dream and is un-Biblical.

As for abuses: Ever heard of Judas? There were abuses from day one. When humans are present, so is sin. You can have a one-man church and you will STILL have sin, because we are all sinners.
 
My religion is Buddhism and thus is doesn't closely resemble what you call "church" in many ways but, in other ways it does. We don't dress up, we dress comfortable because we spend a lot of time sitting on a zafu on the floor. I like it because it is quiet. I like it because Buddhism offers me rational solutions to life issues. It is a religion that still has an impact on me long after I have left the temple. We don't have preaching, we have teaching. I like that difference. Another thing I like is that there is not a great deal of greed or corruption in most sangha's because there damn near nothing to covet. LOL!
 
CatholicCrusadr said:
You guys do realize, don't you, that Jesus established the genesis of an organized, hierarchical Church, modelled on the Family of God, Israel?

Jesus chose apostles, made Peter the leader, and gave them authorities that all the other disciples did not have. Later, in Acts, the hierarchy develops further. The apostles appoint Deacons (greek - diakonos ), Priests (greek - presbyteros ), and Bishops (greek - episkopos), and each have different duties. It is the same today in the Catholic Church.

This is a perfection of Israel's pyramid, with Abraham at top, then the fathers of the twelve tribes, then the lesser clans. Israel, the People of God, were the Family of God, and they were truly family by blood. When Jesus expanded the covenant to all peoples, the Family of God became bound by spirit, not just blood, but the structure was the same. That is why we call priests "father, call each other brothers and sisters, and so forth.

What many of you call "organization" is actually the family structure of the Church, the Family of God.

And on a lesser, administrative level, organization is a neccessity. Even if you have a single, one-building unaffiliated church, you need a secratary, someone to pay the bills, someone to habdle paperwork. Of course, Christ's Church was intended top span the globe, and with a global organization comes..... ......well, comes global organization.

The idea of un-organized religion is a pipe dream and is un-Biblical.

As for abuses: Ever heard of Judas? There were abuses from day one. When humans are present, so is sin. You can have a one-man church and you will STILL have sin, because we are all sinners.
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Did you not read the first post? This thread is not meant for you. Please don't pollute it anymore. Thank you.

And also there are different forms Christianity with different forms of organization. Baptists don't worship God the same way as Catholics or Orthodox Christians. I'm done.
 
It just wasn't something I ever felt comfortable with. Attending services and activities always felt disingenuous to me. But those are personal reasons. A larger sense of the issue, as I see it:

1. Failure to renounce violence and death at the hands of religious radicals.
2. Failure to renounce and rebuke religious leaders who espouse values not supported by the religion (i.e. the pedophilia issue)
3. Failure to apply modern scenarios to ancient guidelines, and revise as necessary (i.e. the OT dismisses homosexuality, but the NT is full of Jesus' word, explaining to love your neighbor, feel compassion for them, and accept them as God's child...yet most religions condemn homosexuality for fear of God's judgment...seems wrong to me)
4. Intolerance
5. Animosity, rejection and violence towards other religions, or non-religious people.
 
tessaesque said:
It just wasn't something I ever felt comfortable with. Attending services and activities always felt disingenuous to me. But those are personal reasons. A larger sense of the issue, as I see it:

1. Failure to renounce violence and death at the hands of religious radicals.
2. Failure to renounce and rebuke religious leaders who espouse values not supported by the religion (i.e. the pedophilia issue)
3. Failure to apply modern scenarios to ancient guidelines, and revise as necessary (i.e. the OT dismisses homosexuality, but the NT is full of Jesus' word, explaining to love your neighbor, feel compassion for them, and accept them as God's child...yet most religions condemn homosexuality for fear of God's judgment...seems wrong to me)
4. Intolerance
5. Animosity, rejection and violence towards other religions, or non-religious people.
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Bingo! That is why I left the religion of my parents.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Bingo! That is why I left the religion of my parents.
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Some churches I've attended have largely been exceptions to the issue I listed, but they had their own issues for me. I have many people in my life who are religious, but most of them are of the mindset that Christianity should follow the word of Christ, which is largely more accepting and more about compassion and respect than it is about hellfire and brimstone. So, to be clear, I have no problem with the religious....just with religions.
 
Muffinz! said:
Did you not read the first post? This thread is not meant for you. Please don't pollute it anymore. Thank you.

And also there are different forms Christianity with different forms of organization. Baptists don't worship God the same way as Catholics or Orthodox Christians. I'm done.
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Muffinz! said:
You are disrupting this thread. I specifically stated that this thread was not for those who like organized religion. Besides your statement was quite wrong.
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Moderator's Warning:
Young man, you'd do well to remember the DP motto, which ends "...civility a must!" You can request that people posting in the thread follow the theme you set; you can ignore those who don't if you wish; but you don't get to kick people out of the thread for disagreeing with the parameters you've set. "Get out of my thread" is one step short of "STFU", which we issue infractions for. Bear this in mind.
 
tessaesque said:
Some churches I've attended have largely been exceptions to the issue I listed, but they had their own issues for me. I have many people in my life who are religious, but most of them are of the mindset that Christianity should follow the word of Christ, which is largely more accepting and more about compassion and respect than it is about hellfire and brimstone. So, to be clear, I have no problem with the religious....just with religions.
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I understand and agree. I don't disparage Christianity or any religion for that matter. Religion is or should be an individual choice. I found Christian churches to be too structured.

To be honest Christianity never made sense to me. There were in my view too many people perverting the faith. I wondered if Jesus did return would he recognize anything about purported to be about him and would the believers recognize and accept Jesus without him having to prove himself with a miracle or two? By the time fundamentalism got a death grip on American Christianity I couldn't get out and away fast enough. Fundamentalism was structured religion beyond anything I could accept. That's not to say that Buddhism doesn't have it's structured sects. But I don't believe it would be fair to either religion to compare them. In fact the argument has been and can be made that Buddhism isn't a religion. I prefer Zen for many reasons and I see it as less organized than Christianity.

It is my belief and experience that there are many good and wonderful people in all religions. I don't like a religion that is in my face whether it be my religion or someone else's.
 
Mainly, I dislike how religion tends to demand that you close your mind. Believe this and only this. Those who believe differently are wrong and will go to hell. This Book cannot be wrong. This Book is written by an infinitely powerful and knowledgeable being, therefore it cannot be wrong. All you need to know is in This Book. Do not attempt to explore further, as that will lead you away from This Book.

The universe is so much more amazing, so much more awesome, so much more fascinating, if you're just willing to look. I'll take the Big Bang Theory over "Poof" any day.

That doesn't mean I begrudge people their beliefs. If you want to believe that the earth was created in 6 days, 6000 years ago, and that therefore evolution is wrong, fine. I don't care. You're provably wrong, but I don't care. It's when you try to push your beliefs onto others that I take issue. It's when you demand that non-science be taught in a science classroom that I take issue. It's when you demand that your religion be pushed on others but other religions be suppressed that I take issue. When people deliberately deceive people in an effort to attack science because science is the enemy that I get pissed off.

For example: a creationist sent a treated fossil to a lab to be carbon dated. Carbon-14 dating is the wrong test for a dinosaur fossil, it's like driving a truck over a bathroom scale and proclaiming that the truck weighs 499 pounds. Plus, the fossil had already been treated for preservation, so even if carbon dating were the appropriate test it would be contaminated by the preservative. The lab realized this was a dinosaur fossil and wrote back to the creationist informing him that it's the wrong test. He insisted they test it anyway. They did. Not surprisingly, the test came back wrong - about 20,000 years. The creationist then began proclaiming that a "blind" carbon dating test was done and those scientists got tricked - carbon dating only showed the dinosaur fossil to be 20,000 years old!

This is deception. It's a lie. But apparently it's ok in the name of religion. That, folks, turns me off.
 
CatholicCrusadr said:
My opinion is "pollution"?
wow
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Muffinz! said:
You are disrupting this thread.......
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Really? It seemed to be going fine to me, until the Thread Nazi jumped in.

soupnazi.jpg
 
Goshin said:
Moderator's Warning:
Young man, you'd do well to remember the DP motto, which ends "...civility a must!" You can request that people posting in the thread follow the theme you set; you can ignore those who don't if you wish; but you don't get to kick people out of the thread for disagreeing with the parameters you've set. "Get out of my thread" is one step short of "STFU", which we issue infractions for. Bear this in mind.
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I do apologize. Didn't mean to be rude, but I would prefer that he doesn't post. I guess CatholicCrusader is free to, though.
 
WOW!

Another Christian-bashing thread!

This is where all of the enlightened, sensitive and really smart people will come and post about how evil Christians are.

Thank God for all of you enlightened, sensitive and really smart people!

Oh, wait!

Is anyone here going to be offended because I thanked God for them?
 
The Baron said:
WOW!

Another Christian-bashing thread!

This is where all of the enlightened, sensitive and really smart people will come and post about how evil Christians are.

Thank God for all of you enlightened, sensitive and really smart people!

Oh, wait!

Is anyone here going to be offended because I thanked God for them?
Click to expand...

This thread has nothing to do with Christianity specifically. You decided to make it about Christianity.
 
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