WAR.... what is it good for?

[sawyerloggingon]

War is something that is ingrained in our human psyche from wayyyyyyyyy back. War isn't a question of good or evil imo. It is present in the human race, and there are benefits gained from it, as it's in our very nature, even if we don't really like to acknowledge them.

The population control part is what got me, there are far better ways to control that than war. I also have to disagree with your war is not evil statement, imo war is evil. If there is a Satan you can bet your ass he delights in war, in man killing man, in cities full of women and children being bombed, in the horror the pain the inhumanity of it all not to mention the rape and pillage that goes along with war in most cases. War is not just participating soldiers being horribly wounded and killed it is the non combatants especially the children that suffer. A burned up baby corpse covered in flies being eaten by dogs along side a road is war and that is pure evil.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

not necessarily, there are definite advantages to fighting on one's own soil as opposed to being in foreign territory, but whether or not you fight a particular war in another guy's country is more often a function of geopolitics and strategic goals rather than some general saying "hmm i think it's better if we fight this war on their home court rather than ours."

There is no advantage to fighting on your own soil, when you are spending resources on defending your family and home, your infrastructure you are wasting those resources. Make the other guy defend while you use 100% of your ability on the attack. having "the enemy within the gates" is never a good thing!

 

[Carleen]

1969 war protest song, for you youngsters.



So, what is War good for? Anything?
Quite a lot, actually.



It kept the Muslim expansion from completely overrunning Europe way back in the 13th or 14th century... all you ladies who don't wanna be covered in a tent to go out of the house can say 'thank you War'.



It won America's independence from England and the tyranny of King George III. Unless you'd like to be ruled by another country 3000 miles across the ocean, that's gotta be good.



It won the state of Texas, briefly the Lone Star Republic, from Mexico. Given the condition of Mexico these days, let all the Texans say "Amen!"


It kept Europe from being plunged into the horror of rule by the Third Reich, the "thousand year Reich" as Hitler sometimes said, and probably saved millions from the gas chambers. Yer welcome.


It's the reason we don't call all of Asia "The Japanese Empire... by the Japanese, for the Japanese, and OF the Japanese". Yer welcome.


The threat of war kept the USSR from turning much of the world into a failed communist dictatorship.


War kept Saddam from taking over Kuwait and Saudi and the Strait of Hormuz, and ending up in control of a vast part of the world's oil, and a major oil export choke-point. If you drive a car, say thanks.


The threat of war has kept Taiwan free from Communist China.... yer welcome.


I could go on for some time, but I'll stop there. War may do a lot of damage, and not all wars are good wars... but without war, without the ability to wage war or threaten war, much that is good in the world would have perished under the iron heel of the conquerors and tyrants.



War... what is it good for? Quite a lot it seems....

I felt the song pertained to the Vietnam War which was a war for absolutely nothing!

 

[lizzie]

Do you favor intervention if a country is committing genocide? It seems to me that human rights, at some point, becomes more important than national sovereignty.

That would depend on the specifics of whom is doing the invading, and where the funding is coming from. Iow, if there is mass genocide taking place, I do NOT support the US unilaterally invading. If NATO or some other multi-national organization wants to entertain the action, and it is not a case of our country being aggressive, because we desire to change a country according to our own ideological beliefs, then it's something that I could consider.

 

[lizzie]

The population control part is what got me, there are far better ways to control that than war. I also have to disagree with your war is not evil statement, imo war is evil. If there is a Satan you can bet your ass he delights in war, in man killing man, in cities full of women and children being bombed, in the horror the pain the inhumanity of it all not to mention the rape and pillage that goes along with war in most cases. War is not just participating soldiers being horribly wounded and killed it is the non combatants especially the children that suffer. A burned up baby corpse covered in flies being eaten by dogs along side a road is war and that is pure evil.

The population control comment was admittedly a little bit tongue-in-cheek, but has a bit of truth in it as well. Nature's rules are that over-population is kept in check via pesitlence, disease, and discord, so that things don't get out of balance.

As for the question of good and evil- we will have to agree to disagree, because I don't view these issues and black and white.

 

[Deuce]

Going by the list in the OP, the only problem wars seem to solve are other wars.

 

[Medusa]

war is just good if you are defending yourself ........yes for such a war..

but no for imperial aims

 

[Medusa]

1969 war protest song, for you youngsters.



So, what is War good for? Anything?


Quite a lot, actually.



It kept the Muslim expansion from completely overrunning Europe way back in the 13th or 14th century... all you ladies who don't wanna be covered in a tent to go out of the house can say 'thank you War'.



It won America's independence from England and the tyranny of King George III. Unless you'd like to be ruled by another country 3000 miles across the ocean, that's gotta be good.



It won the state of Texas, briefly the Lone Star Republic, from Mexico. Given the condition of Mexico these days, let all the Texans say "Amen!"


It kept Europe from being plunged into the horror of rule by the Third Reich, the "thousand year Reich" as Hitler sometimes said, and probably saved millions from the gas chambers. Yer welcome.


It's the reason we don't call all of Asia "The Japanese Empire... by the Japanese, for the Japanese, and OF the Japanese". Yer welcome.


The threat of war kept the USSR from turning much of the world into a failed communist dictatorship.


War kept Saddam from taking over Kuwait and Saudi and the Strait of Hormuz, and ending up in control of a vast part of the world's oil, and a major oil export choke-point. If you drive a car, say thanks.


The threat of war has kept Taiwan free from Communist China.... yer welcome.


I could go on for some time, but I'll stop there. War may do a lot of damage, and not all wars are good wars... but without war, without the ability to wage war or threaten war, much that is good in the world would have perished under the iron heel of the conquerors and tyrants.



War... what is it good for? Quite a lot it seems....

but just that part was not a defense,goshin .)))


but you are honest and smart to accept its reason :mrgreen:

 

[ecofarm]

war is just good if you are defending yourself ........yes for such a war..

but no for imperial aims

Just as in self defense, it includes other people. It's our responsibility, as a world power, to do something about genocide. Even if it takes almost 15 years, countless UN violations, another instance of genocide and then selling food-for-oil proceeds to the tune of 400k dead children... eventually, we gotta do something.

I wouldn't worry about imperial. I don't see dictators, theocracies and the like winning any more wars. It's all +freedom from here on out as far as I can figure.

 

[lizzie]

Just as in self defense, it includes other people. It's our responsibility, as a world power, to do something about genocide. Even if it takes almost 15 years, countless UN violations, another instance of genocide and then selling food-for-oil proceeds to the tune of 400k dead children... eventually, we gotta do something.

I wouldn't worry about imperial. I don't see dictators, theocracies and the like winning any more wars. It's all +freedom from here on out as far as I can figure.

Oh, but you don't understand the nature of some people. There are plenty of places around the world, where people don't really want to be "free", but instead want a strong ruler, because with freedom, comes much responsibility.

 

[Medusa]

Just as in self defense, it includes other people. It's our responsibility, as a world power, to do something about genocide. Even if it takes almost 15 years, countless UN violations, another instance of genocide and then selling food-for-oil proceeds to the tune of 400k dead children... eventually, we gotta do something.

I wouldn't worry about imperial. I don't see dictators, theocracies and the like winning any more wars. It's all +freedom from here on out as far as I can figure.

hi sweeety i was waiting for you to post .)))

:2razz:


yess and please stop criticizin turkey for taking actions against bloody terrrorists ,

turkey ıs not world power,yes but we never used any nuke ,or u realy cant understand what we suffer from here.....we never killed hundreds thousands of innocent to protect our country,however your actions are so white because you are power


note ,you have no right to change my map as a world power.....


look at where i bolded ,that war was just for oil as goshin said....

 

[ecofarm]

Oh, but you don't understand the nature of some people. There are plenty of places around the world, where people don't really want to be "free", but instead want a strong ruler, because with freedom, comes much responsibility.

That's disgusting. You're joking, I presume. Still, it's gross.

 

[Medusa]

Oh, but you don't understand the nature of some people. There are plenty of places around the world, where people don't really want to be "free", but instead want a strong ruler, because with freedom, comes much responsibility.

excuse me sweeety ,turkey is free enough ,ı am not arabıan either.........

i am free too........

 

[ecofarm]

hi sweeety i was waiting for you to post

You're a world power, in some sense, because you are in NATO. If anyone attacked Turkey, the US would see a quick end to it - by contract. Let's push for even more liberal democracy everywhere, human rights and all that good stuff too.

 

[lizzie]

excuse me sweeety ,turkey is free enough ,ı am not arabıan either.........

Who said anything about Turkey or Arabs? I was referring to the nature of people, and freedom.

 

[Medusa]

Who said anything about Turkey or Arabs? I was referring to the nature of people, and freedom.

but his post was to me....and you agreed.

 

[lizzie]

That's disgusting. You're joking, I presume. Still, it's gross.

No. I am not joking.

 

[Ikari]

Just as in self defense, it includes other people. It's our responsibility, as a world power, to do something about genocide. Even if it takes almost 15 years, countless UN violations, another instance of genocide and then selling food-for-oil proceeds to the tune of 400k dead children... eventually, we gotta do something.

I wouldn't worry about imperial. I don't see dictators, theocracies and the like winning any more wars. It's all +freedom from here on out as far as I can figure.

It's not really our place to intervene less our own sovereignty is threatened. They don't pay into our system, they don't pay for our military, we are not the World's Police.

 

[Medusa]

You're a world power, in some sense, because you are in NATO. If anyone attacked Turkey, the US would see a quick end to it - by contract. Let's push for even more liberal democracy everywhere, human rights and all that good stuff too.

answer the rest of my post too please jesus :mrgreen:

 

[lizzie]

but his post was to me....and you agreed.

Whose post are you talking about? I was responding to his idea that everyone wants freedom, and that is not the case. They may think they want freedom, but they don't really want to deal with some of the implications long-term.

 

[Medusa]

Whose post are you talking about? I was responding to his idea that everyone wants freedom, and that is not the case. They may think they want freedom, but they don't really want to deal with some of the implications long-term.

if so ,it is not other nations' problem ,lizzie .thıs world is not turning around Usa

lizzie ,there are lots of people here who think turkey is one of them too ,sorry i sometimes tend to misunderstand some comments

 

[lizzie]

if so ,it is not other nations' problem ,lizzie .thıs world is not turning around Usa

Where did I say it is? My posts in this thread have indicated that I do not favor interventionism on our part, in the internal affairs of other nations.

 

[Medusa]

Where did I say it is? My posts in this thread have indicated that I do not favor interventionism on our part, in the internal affairs of other nations.

yes look at my post agaın :roll:

 

[ecofarm]

yess and please stop criticizin turkey for taking actions against bloody terrrorists ,

I'm not doing the Turkey thing. You can do your own research and make your decisions on that. Just remember, every country makes mistakes; none's past is perfect.

note ,you have no right to change my map as a world power.....

I disagree. Maps change. If a horrible dictator is overthrown and the country fractures and is otherwise incorporated into other countries... it happens. Trying to pretend it does not happen, or will not happen, is pointless. Map changes do and will happen. As a member of NATO, you can be sure that any such change to your country will be voluntary.

that war was just for oil as goshin said....

No war is just for oil. That's just not even trying to grasp the metaphysical. War is for power. Yes, a nation does need something to get on the top of the list. The US would go broke trying to nation build resourcesless countries. When a country has a genocidal dictator and the resources to nation build, then it's time to act. Watch, in 20 years Iraq will be so much better; it could develop like Japan did.

It's not really our place to intervene less our own sovereignty is threatened. They don't pay into our system, they don't pay for our military, we are not the World's Police.

They are our brothers.

 

[Ikari]

They are our brothers.

We do not possess the resources to police the world. Particularly not now when we're broke. We cannot sustain global military presence and action, nor is it something our government was given permission to do in the first place. Government draws legitimacy from the consent of the governed. If you are not part of the governed, you do not have proper say in that government.