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teacher said:The same voilence they use? We go out of our way to limit civilian harm. They make them their primary target.
Remember the first Trade center bombing? They hate us enough allready.
If they had a nuke instead of hijacked planes it would allready be done.
My God we have been doing this for decades.
Who was there for the Tsunami victims. How much money? And yet some Muslim Cleric said the Tsunami was God punishing Christians. When the majority of victims were Muslim.
We have been feeding and immunizing the world, building schools and hospitals, teaching agriculture and birth control. Remember foreign aid? Who is the first country to show up at a earthquake with doctors and dogs and rescue crews? We are Americans and we do this of our free will. The unwashed masses will never see us feeding the starving. Think that would lead on Al Jazera. Think a old Muslim man would point that out to his room full of future suicide bombers.
Boy them Arabs sure liked us when we were kicking Saddam out of Kuwait.We liberated a whole country, should get good PR out of that. No, we are an ally of Israel and we are not Muslim. All the charity and good works will not change that. Your heart is in the right place Gandhi, but beaters of woman take that for weakness and will use that against us
Gandhi>Bush said:Violence is violence, in my opinion.
Is the violence of a police sniper taking the head off of a hostage taker who has allready killed and says he will again the same violence as the hostage taker?
We're showing these people that we use violence to solve problems too, and on top of that we're "The Greatest Country in the World."
Is there any point when peaceful means have been exhausted?
A war will not unamake that hatred. It will enforce it. It gives their hatred something to do.
Again, the hate is allready there. Perpetuated by old men fearing loss of control and teaching the Koran and hatred for Jews and America and nothing else to pliable young minds. With their stranglehold on information how does our many and real good deeds get to the public?
But it hasn't been, therefore now is when we must take the proper steps to prevent such things.
Of course here I say in my opinion we are doing exactly that. Too bad it had to come to this.
[qutoe]I agree. But the Arab women see that and then make the mistake of saying something out loud then their answer will be a beating and Koran quotes about the place of a woman. And if the women asked for our help what would you do? I say we are doing it now.
If the women asked for my help, well I would have to analyze her exact situation, and then act. Could you tell me the last time Bush and the Ayatollah of Iran had a little chat? About anything? From women's rights to the Red Sox? Anything?
As I recall, it was Michael Savage talking about how God wanted to cleanse the filth of Indonesia...
Do you think that old man would have very many students if it was seen everywhere that there is no such thing as "The Great White Satan?"
It was to the Kuwaities.You call a war postive PR?
To these people everything bends easily into Jihad.It's easy to bend a war into a Jihad.
[/QUOTE]Can you tell me how you bend a white man helping a muslim child into a white devil?
teacher said:Is the violence of a police sniper taking the head off of a hostage taker who has allready killed and says he will again the same violence as the hostage taker?
Is there any point when peaceful means have been exhausted?
Again, the hate is allready there. Perpetuated by old men fearing loss of control and teaching the Koran and hatred for Jews and America and nothing else to pliable young minds.
With their stranglehold on information how does our many and real good deeds get to the public?
Of course here I say in my opinion we are doing exactly that. Too bad it had to come to this.
The Ayatollah talking about womens rights. And I thought my sense of humor was bent. Good one.
No totally different story. Besides Savage is a loon.
No, of cource not. But how do we get the news past that old man?
It was to the Kuwaities.
To these people everything bends easily into Jihad.
True story. A friend of mine on duty in Afghanistan had given a young boy a soccer ball. If you don't know the family's and Friends of overseas soldiers often send gifts for the children there. Such was the case. My friend had left to return later to see a man take the ball away and begin beating the boy.
I won't say what my friend did but he is a white man who helped a Muslim child but don't think for a moment that a Mullah wouldn't try to turn that around.
Their very religion dictates convert or kill all. No abundance of kindness, aid, or Hallmark cards is ever going to change that.
I agree with you to show them our best side can do wonders but they sensor that. We dropped food in Afghanistan and the Mullahs told their people it was poisoned.
Your title says pacifist. If I came across someone hurting you or yours my very nature would make me help. With violence if necessary. Would then violence still be wrong. If you came across me or mine in peril and you did nothing I would understand because it is your nature. I would have no respect for your character but yet will defend your right to be so inclined.
Please believe folks like me believe we do a just thing overseas. Not for imperialism, oil, or other such nonsense the left tries to pin on us. I believe in my heart it is a good thing.
Free the woman.
Gandhi>Bush said:Their both killing something aren't they?
Possibly. I haven't gone over every single far fetched hypothetical situation in the world yet.
teacher said:The point being we are there and can make the examples you speak of. And we are most of the time. But the old men are still there. It will take time for their influence to fade. Generations.
In my opinion another 20 years of peaceful means will only get us closer to terrorists having nukes.
It may seem a strange concept to go to war to show others we care for their well being. The methods you speak of while chaste and moral may not seep through to those fast enough or in great enough quantity to make the difference in time. Unfortunately in this case to ere the wrong way means a nuke in our back yard. I feel we have to play this one the hard way. Iraq people holding up their ink stained fingers under threat of death shows me we just might be onto something here. And yea those kids will pout for days over a toy.
Free the woman. Then they will take care of the bad boys.
Gandhi>Bush said:Of course the Iraqis are happy. They have democracy now, but at what cost? Many have died, and infinetly more damaging, many have seen violence change so much. Many now see that as the only way change things. That is the most troubling part of the whole scenario.
teacher said:Or maybe they see their hard earned through violence freedom puts them in a position where violence can now be avoided because they have the fair rule of law. Much as we did tearing away from the British in the 1700's and look at what we have accomplished.
Then Gandhi, would not this be a perfect time to take a page from your book and with compassion, caring, and education help them to see the potential of their future. Sure it took war to get them here but I ask you. Is it ever to late to try your methods no matter what the starting point? Stick and then carrot perhaps?Gandhi>Bush said:I really don't think, by my own just-a-regular-guy evalutation, that that is what this culture sees.
holocaustpulp said:You failed to mention that Porter Goss - the CIA head - has claimed that the War in Iraq (supposedly a facet of the War on Terror) has boosted the number of terrorists internationally by locally alienating Iraqis as well as providing vindication for extremist ideals and jihad.
Despite the declining condition in Iraq and Afghanistan, we look to the White and say...
...[/I]put on a happy face!
- Holocaustpulp
Cougar said:I love when people make general statements, such as the War on Terror is bogus. I agree that our justification for going to war in Iraq is/was bogus but the War on Terror certainly is not. I think we have to fight the War on Terror everyday but we should be careful on how we define 'Terror'. Our justification was wrong for the War in Iraq, I don't blame Bush - I blame the intelligence that was presented to us by many countires including our own. The war on terror is more than the war in Iraq. It includes securing our own boarders, setting public policy, maintaining dipolmatic relations with China/North Korea AND fighting the everyday fight against known terrorist groups.
guns_God_glory said:Some innocent civilians were harmed in the war but it is nothing compared to the rape torture and sub human things they were subjected to when Saddamm was in power.
guns_God_glory said:Some innocent civilians were harmed in the war but it is nothing compared to the rape torture and sub human things they were subjected to when Saddamm was in power.
Gandhi>Bush said:...or we can undo why they hate us and not fight at all...
Gandhi>Bush said:Well maybe the United States could do more to ensure that the "flavor" of next month, that would probably be our children, does not have to fear such hatred.
If you think a war is how to get something like that done, I believe you are wrong. You will never kill every terrorist in the world. A war will only spread terrorism.
Think of it.
You yourself said that this has been going on throughout history. Has anyone before tried to unmake the hatred within our current "enemy?"
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