War on Terror is bogus

[GottaHurt]

Well maybe the United States could do more to ensure that the "flavor" of next month, that would probably be our children, does not have to fear such hatred.

Interesting, teach our children not to fear the very people trying to kill them.

If you think a war is how to get something like that done, I believe you are wrong. You will never kill every terrorist in the world.A war will only spread terrorism.

Red = correct

Blue = incorrect

Watch what happens in Iran over the next 10 years. The people of Iran are on the verge of revolution after seeing free elections in Iraq and Afghanistan.
This is a direct result from the war on terrorism, when oppressed people are given the hope of freedom and prosperity, through the actions of those willing
to stand and fight for their freedoms.

You yourself said that this has been going on throughout history. Has anyone before tried to unmake the hatred within our current "enemy?"

How many "Mid East Peace Treaties" have we been a part of over the last 40 years?

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Interesting, teach our children not to fear the very people trying to kill them.

I would have said, "Teach our children not to kill those that want to kill them." Sounds like something Jesus would do. I still have that bracelet... from so long ago... I miss the 90's.

Red = correct

Cool we agree!

Blue = incorrect

Right...

Watch what happens in Iran over the next 10 years. The people of Iran are on the verge of revolution after seeing free elections in Iraq and Afghanistan.
This is a direct result from the war on terrorism, when oppressed people are given the hope of freedom and prosperity, through the actions of those willing
to stand and fight for their freedoms.

Watch what happens at home. If their isn't a terrorist attack within the next 10 years that doesn't trump 9/11, I'll be incredibly surprised.

As for Iran, their revolution will probably be more bloody than the "revolution" in Iraq. We(THE GREATEST NATION EVER r00x00r!1!) have shown them that problems have to be solved with violence, that's just what they'll do.

How many "Mid East Peace Treaties" have we been a part of over the last 40 years?

There's a difference between saying "Let's get along, ehh?" and unmaking hatred don't you think?

 

[GottaHurt]

I would have said, "Teach our children not to kill those that want to kill them."

Truly an admirable quote, but being the realist that I am, I err on the side of caution.

Watch what happens at home. If their isn't a terrorist attack within the next 10 years that doesn't trump 9/11, I'll be incredibly surprised.

Surprises can be a good thing, but a surprise terrorist attack isn't one of them.For the terrorist to trump 9/11, that would surprise me, but I don't think they'll be able to, unless we stop putting pressure on them.Kind of hard to plan/co-ordinate/launch an attack when you're constantly on the run and looking for alternative hiding places.

As for Iran, their revolution will probably be more bloody than the "revolution" in Iraq. We have shown them that problems have to be solved with violence, that's just what they'll do.

Nice try , but they were teaching and practicing violence long before the USA was even an established country.

There's a difference between saying "Let's get along, ehh?" and unmaking hatred don't you think?

I'm interested to know your theory on "unmaking hatred".

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Surprises can be a good thing, but a surprise terrorist attack isn't one of them.For the terrorist to trump 9/11, that would surprise me, but I don't think they'll be able to, unless we stop putting pressure on them.Kind of hard to plan/co-ordinate/launch an attack when you're constantly on the run and looking for alternative hiding places.

Kind of hard to protect yourself within your own borders while fighting in someone elses. These wars have only encouraged anti-American sentiments and actions.

Nice try , but they were teaching and practicing violence long before the USA was even an established country.

And seeing us solve our problems with war helps to deter and break down such teachings? We are the most powerful, the most wealthy, and we solve our problems with blood. Where are they supposed to turn to for a good example. You think they read about Gandhi as much as they should :lol: ?

I'm interested to know your theory on "unmaking hatred".

I've gone over it in other threads and I fear many other members may be getting annoyed with seeing so many threads turn in to Gandhi>Bush's pascifist rants :lol:.

So I'll just go to Al Green because he summed up the points:

Father, father
We don't need to escalate
War is not the answer
For only love can conquer hate

Al Green "What's Goin' On?"

 

[teacher]

I've gone over it in other threads and I fear many other members may be getting annoyed with seeing so many threads turn in to Gandhi>Bush's pascifist rants :lol:.

AH come on Gandhi, you know I at least love a good rant (rants don't suck).

Is there ever a point when you DO think violence and war are necessary?
Oh I smell a trap. Careful.

 

[teacher]

I believe any situation, given enough analysis can be worked out peacefully.

You did say any right? Hitler?

 

[Pacridge]

Well maybe the United States could do more to ensure that the "flavor" of next month, that would probably be our children, does not have to fear such hatred.

If you think a war is how to get something like that done, I believe you are wrong. You will never kill every terrorist in the world. A war will only spread terrorism.

Think of it.

You yourself said that this has been going on throughout history. Has anyone before tried to unmake the hatred within our current "enemy?"

I think there's a lot of truth in that statement. The issues that bring young men in to the roles of terrorism are not purely war though. The entire situation in the Middle East must be looked at. There's the religious reasoning to which everyone points. But I think that a surface issue. More telling are the economic issues and oppression being suffered by so many. The oil rich monarchs have created a class of ultra poor in nations such as Saudi Arabia by not sharing any of the wealth with their citizens. These oppressed often starving people look at the US and see the reasons for their situation. Blame the great Satan of the west for all your problems seems to be a mantra of some sort. For years the powers that be in the Middle East have done nothing to dispel that reasoning. Why would they? Focus of the blame would then possibly shift to them. Until steps are taken to deal with the root causes of terrorism progress will never be permanent. You can't bomb people into to believing or accepting your position.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

AH come on Gandhi, you know I at least love a good rant (rants don't suck).

Is there ever a point when you DO think violence and war are necessary?
Oh I smell a trap. Careful.

Instictively, I say no. Though I'm sure I could come up with a few hypothetical situations that I would say otherwise. On a global scale, I'm fairly certian that WAR is never the answer.

Hitler:

Hitler is a complex issue. I've done some thinking and some reading and the closest thing to peace I've come up with is a phantom bullet from a CIA that didn't exist in the 1930's-40's. I still think that this is not acceptible. It is debated as to whether Hitler was clinically insane(I don't think he was) and in today's world we would have more options, but in the 1940's I don't know what we could do. I'm sure that during the process of obtaining my Peace and Conflict Studies degree, I'll be able to have a viable solution.

 

[Pacridge]

Instictively, I say no. Though I'm sure I could come up with a few hypothetical situations that I would say otherwise. On a global scale, I'm fairly certian that WAR is never the answer.

Hitler:

Hitler is a complex issue. I've done some thinking and some reading and the closest thing to peace I've come up with is a phantom bullet from a CIA that didn't exist in the 1930's-40's. I still think that this is not acceptible. It is debated as to whether Hitler was clinically insane(I don't think he was) and in today's world we would have more options, but in the 1940's I don't know what we could do. I'm sure that during the process of obtaining my Peace and Conflict Studies degree, I'll be able to have a viable solution.

So you'd be okay with killing one person for the betterment of all. Just not killing several people for the betterment of all? That almost makes it sound like a numbers issue?

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

So you'd be okay with killing one person for the betterment of all. Just not killing several people for the betterment of all? That almost makes it sound like a numbers issue?

Not really, I don't approve of the kind of thinking. I just said it was all I could come up with :lol:.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

dude, that's Marvin Gaye

Dude! I always get them mixed up. One's perverted and one's political... :lol:

 

[teacher]

I'm sure that during the process of obtaining my Peace and Conflict Studies degree, I'll be able to have a viable solution.

That is kind of scary. I don't need no fancy book learning to tell me right and wrong. Anything that changes your morals like that I would term "brainwashing". Hitler was crazy as a loon and a drug addict to boot. What sane military commander fights a two front war?

 

[RightinNYC]

Instictively, I say no. Though I'm sure I could come up with a few hypothetical situations that I would say otherwise. On a global scale, I'm fairly certian that WAR is never the answer.

Hitler:

Hitler is a complex issue. I've done some thinking and some reading and the closest thing to peace I've come up with is a phantom bullet from a CIA that didn't exist in the 1930's-40's. I still think that this is not acceptible. It is debated as to whether Hitler was clinically insane(I don't think he was) and in today's world we would have more options, but in the 1940's I don't know what we could do. I'm sure that during the process of obtaining my Peace and Conflict Studies degree, I'll be able to have a viable solution.

For the record, i disagree strongly. when im sobert ill make my argument. but yes, i disagree.

 

[teacher]

For the record, i disagree strongly. when im sobert ill make my argument. but yes, i disagree.

If your sobert then I guess that makes me soernie. Rubber ducky your the one....

 

[arussian]

Hi, everybody.
Sorry, if you have already discussed the issue in this perspective (I couldn’t read the whole of this topic), but it seems to me that you haven’t.

We Russians have a proverb: “to extinguish fire with gasoline” (i.e. to perceive some goal with the means those lead in opposite direction). That is exactly the case of neocon administrations’ “war on terror”, imho.
Look, what was Al-Qaida before US invasion into Afghanistan and Iraq?
It was just a couple of losers. Even if it were they who ruined twins in NYC they still were little disgusting goblins. How many followers did they have? What was the attitude of Arabian and the worlds’ majority towards them? Who at least knew about them?!
And what was US? Great power, etc, etc.
And now? How do you think many people in the world (especially Arabian) view US?

They view them as invader. As the country, that exchanges blood for oil. Do you need it?
And what are the views of Arabian youths towards Al-Qaida and the Sunni resistance?
They are heroes now! Thousands and thousands all over the Arab world want to join them.
It is evident for them that the Americans are invaders and already therefore the foes. Now they have moral indulgence to attack them whenever they find them in “revenge”.
Is it somehow unclear?

Two years passed and what’s going on, has the insurgence weakened? No, it is recruiting more and more followers. First of all due to US army presence in Iraq.

Please, consider text the link to which is below, it is adequate to some extent, imho.
http://www.jihadunspun.com/strategy_apr2005.htm

 

[teacher]

Look, what was Al-Qaida before US invasion into Afghanistan and Iraq?
It was just a couple of losers.

Just a couple. Who brutalized and ran a whole country, Afghanistan.

Be nice. Be nice, welcome the nice person. Welcome, arussian, I'm ateacher, not by trade that's my moniker here. Don't judge this site by me. I'm the worst. By the way I deal in facts. And very subtle opinions, very subtle.

 

[Pacridge]

Hi, everybody.
Sorry, if you have already discussed the issue in this perspective (I couldn’t read the whole of this topic), but it seems to me that you haven’t.

We Russians have a proverb: “to extinguish fire with gasoline” (i.e. to perceive some goal with the means those lead in opposite direction). That is exactly the case of neocon administrations’ “war on terror”, imho.
Look, what was Al-Qaida before US invasion into Afghanistan and Iraq?
It was just a couple of losers. Even if it were they who ruined twins in NYC they still were little disgusting goblins. How many followers did they have? What was the attitude of Arabian and the worlds’ majority towards them? Who at least knew about them?
And what was US? Great power, etc, etc.
And now? How do you think many people in the world (especially Arabian) view US?

They view them as invader. As the country, that exchanges blood for oil. Do you need it?
And what are the views of Arabian youths towards Al-Qaida and the Sunni resistance?
They are heroes now! Thousands and thousands all over the Arab world want to join them.
It is evident for them that the Americans are invaders and already therefore the foes. Now they have moral indulgence to attack them whenever they find them in “revenge”.
Is it somehow unclear?

Two years passed and what’s going on, has the insurgence weakened? No, it is recruiting more and more followers. First of all due to US army presence in Iraq.

Please, consider text the link to which is below, it is adequate to some extent, imho.
http://www.jihadunspun.com/strategy_apr2005.htm

Welcome to Debate Politics!

 

[nkgupta80]

I can see why many are against the War in Iraq, but why the War in Afghanistan?

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

That is kind of scary. I don't need no fancy book learning to tell me right and wrong. Anything that changes your morals like that I would term "brainwashing". Hitler was crazy as a loon and a drug addict to boot. What sane military commander fights a two front war?

No no no. I meant after a more of a focused study I might have more ideas about possible solutions to such a situation.

We would have to look first what caused the people of Germany to accept and embrace Hitler's ideas. It directly stemmed from their punishment from WWI. They were dying and a man came along with the "solution." They were desparate and Maslow's hierarchy of needs would say that their morality was clouded by their will to eat and to feed their children etc. I haven't done alot of thinking about the Hitlers of the world because I don't see a situation in today's world resulting in a man like Hitler.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

I can see why many are against the War in Iraq, but why the War in Afghanistan?

“to extinguish fire with gasoline”

As arussian said.

 

[teacher]

We would have to look first what caused the people of Germany to accept and embrace Hitler's ideas.

I think part of the reason is envy. The Jews are a very industrious, smart, hard working race. Look what they did with the speck of dessert given them.
Watched a show on history channel the other day. Hitlers youth. Boys were separated from home and school together, systematic brainwashing was the name of the game. Very interesting with many candid interviews with present day former youths. Very disturbing and revealing. Try to watch and then apply to todays Arab youth. Identical, very possible and highly effective. Those poor children don't have a chance. I am a father and I know I could have bent my childrens thinking anyway I want. Actualy I did. But to be good people.
The following statement is the Gods honest truth. Infer no implications. No slights, slanders or hidden opinions here. Just repeating what I heard with my own ears.

I was stationed in Northern Germany for 2 1/2 years. The building of one apartment I lived in was two stories. Top floor the owners lived in. ground floor was the bar they ran. Basement was my place. the mens room for the bar was also in the basement. A locked door in the basement mens room led to my hallway. Pretty cool deal if you think about it. I could get snookered and leave the bar through one door to my place. Sometimes after closing one of the locals would come down to my place and continue drinking and play darts. All were nice folks and good friends. But at my place they went from Warsteiners beer mostly to Jack Daniels. Now I have a gift (or curse some might say) in that I never forget what I do or say no matter how much I drink. Never. I know lots of things about people that have no recollection of them ever saying or doing things. I usually don't tell them. Often the Germans would try to lead us white Americans into derogatory statements about blacks. My theory why is so they could associate our white racism of blacks with their racism of Jews. I would play along like the good bigot I'm not and several of them admitted they still hate the Jews. Bad. WW ll bad. Thats all. I'm not saying all, some, a majority or a minority. Just several, maybe five, and they were very drunk. True story. You get your own opinions out of that. I'll offer none of my own. Had enough trouble over the French thing and that was PART tongue in cheek.

 

[teacher]

I'm sure that during the process of obtaining my Peace and Conflict Studies degree, I'll be able to have a viable solution.

I gots to know. So what you call "obtaining a Peace and Conflict studies degree" is what I call "noodling crap out"? Is that the way you talk or are you trying to sound smart or are you messing with my Head. Any way is cool though, different, but cool. I think you would have been a god in the sixties. Gandi>Nixon. Yes. I like that. might be worthy of a rant of a top ten list.....
oh oh.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

You know, sometimes when you talk I have no idea what you are saying. This would be one of those times. :lol:

 

[teacher]

You know, sometimes when you talk I have no idea what you are saying. This would be one of those times. :lol:

Me to. Try this way. Are you going to a brick and mortor school pursuing a degree in Peace and conflict studies. Or is that your way of saying you need to think about it. There is always a point in my rants. The wierder I can make It the happier I am. If I can get my point across like that thenm imagine if I played it straight. Or is it the sixties part. You do relize your a hippie right. Not in a bad way. You know VW bus, tie dye, loose girls, freelove.

 

[Pacridge]

No no no. I meant after a more of a focused study I might have more ideas about possible solutions to such a situation.

We would have to look first what caused the people of Germany to accept and embrace Hitler's ideas. It directly stemmed from their punishment from WWI. They were dying and a man came along with the "solution." They were desparate and Maslow's hierarchy of needs would say that their morality was clouded by their will to eat and to feed their children etc. I haven't done alot of thinking about the Hitlers of the world because I don't see a situation in today's world resulting in a man like Hitler.

That certainly sounds reasonable to me. Studying a discipline to learn more about how it could be applied. Never sounded like brainwashing to me.

And I don't see any modern day Hitler's either. Certainly hasn't stopped people from making that comparison. Seems to be the all the rage. Folks from both sides of the fence are constantly laying claim that the other side's behavior is Hitler like.