War on drugs a trillion-dollar failure

[blaxshep]

War on drugs a trillion-dollar failure - CNN.com

 

[Helix]

War on drugs a trillion-dollar failure - CNN.com

pretty much.

we'd be much better off having a national debate about how to fix it. the current drug scheduling system is insane.

 

[ttwtt78640]

War on drugs a trillion-dollar failure - CNN.com

In a society that uses intoxication (recreational drug use) as a mitigating factor, rather than an agravating factor this is what you get. In criminal court, unlike traffic court, being drunk or high will likely get you a reduced sentence. I feel that alone justifies the "war on drugs"; remove (actually reverse) that nonsense and drop the war on drugs. It will seem, at first, to cost lives, injuries and property but in the end, blaming things (guns and drugs) is wrong, blaming actions is right. Any free society absolutely depends on a criminal justice system based entirely on personal responsibilty.

http://lobby.la.psu.edu/049_Crimina...nts/Sentencing Project/SP_Mitigating_frna.pdf

 

[ex99]

pretty much.

we'd be much better off having a national debate about how to fix it. the current drug scheduling system is insane.

Naw, let's just keep pretending. Time heals all wounds right, it should work itself out.

 

[Thoreau72]

...or a success, depending upon one's perspective. For those employed in the Prison Industrial Complex, the war on drugs is the Goose that Lays Golden Eggs. :lol:

 

[ex99]

...or a success, depending upon one's perspective. For those employed in the Prison Industrial Complex, the war on drugs is the Goose that Lays Golden Eggs. :lol:

Ill be honest, I never thought of it from that perspective. And ive always felt people thought I had crazy ideas. Im enjoying this place.

 

[specklebang]

You summed it up in one sentence.

I call it The Punishment Industry and it's a huge success for the prison business.

...or a success, depending upon one's perspective. For those employed in the Prison Industrial Complex, the war on drugs is the Goose that Lays Golden Eggs. :lol:

 

[grip]

Who says, "The War ON Drugs" is a failure? Drugs are a bigger enemy than terrorism and have killed far more. And how much have we spent on that war?

I guess we just get rid of all laws, since people will break them anyway?

 

[shahidsaif]

war with the drugs i am going for the war.

 

[Thoreau72]

war with the drugs i am going for the war.

Hell yeah! War is good!

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Who says, "The War ON Drugs" is a failure? Drugs are a bigger enemy than terrorism and have killed far more. And how much have we spent on that war?

I guess we just get rid of all laws, since people will break them anyway?

Because terrorism involves murder. Drug usage involves sovereign human beings making their own choices about what to do with their bodies. Why you think you have a right to tell them what to do peaceably in their own homes is beyond me.

In a society that uses intoxication (recreational drug use) as a mitigating factor, rather than an agravating factor this is what you get. In criminal court, unlike traffic court, being drunk or high will likely get you a reduced sentence. I feel that alone justifies the "war on drugs"; remove (actually reverse) that nonsense and drop the war on drugs. It will seem, at first, to cost lives, injuries and property but in the end, blaming things (guns and drugs) is wrong, blaming actions is right. Any free society absolutely depends on a criminal justice system based entirely on personal responsibilty.

http://lobby.la.psu.edu/049_Crimina...nts/Sentencing Project/SP_Mitigating_frna.pdf

Your sobriety status should have zero effect on the way the law treats you. That's the only way drug legalization can remain morally consistent. A person has a right manage his own body peaceably, but it should never be an excuse for his actions against his fellow human beings.

 

[grip]

Because terrorism involves murder. Drug usage involves sovereign human beings making their own choices about what to do with their bodies. Why you think you have a right to tell them what to do peaceably in their own homes is beyond me.

What's peaceable about damaging your health with drug use? I don't agree with the unlawful attack on cigarette use but it's not healthy to slowly kill yourself. The fine line between freedom and civic responsibility is a social tightrope we've always had to walk.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

What's peaceable about damaging your health with drug use? I don't agree with the unlawful attack on cigarette use but it's not healthy to slowly kill yourself. The fine line between freedom and civic responsibility is a social tightrope we've always had to walk.

Because it's not the government's business what a person willingly does with his own body, as long as it doesn't effect someone else. I suppose you're for banning everything that's bad for you right? There are plenty of illegal drugs that are much less destructive than alcohol.

 

[ttwtt78640]

What's peaceable about damaging your health with drug use? I don't agree with the unlawful attack on cigarette use but it's not healthy to slowly kill yourself. The fine line between freedom and civic responsibility is a social tightrope we've always had to walk.

Think of smoking tobacco as simply a voluntary reduction of SS/Medicare benefit use. Everyone born will die, many of those with debilitating diseases requiring very expensive medical treatment, those that do so after their children are grown and in the workforce, yet before they can collect SS/Medicare benefits, are not a drain upon society, but a boon to it.

 

[ttwtt78640]

...or a success, depending upon one's perspective. For those employed in the Prison Industrial Complex, the war on drugs is the Goose that Lays Golden Eggs. :lol:

Add to that the power to confiscate the "ill gotten gains" from "drug dealers" and auction them off. I had a neighbor that got a new car every few months at a "public" auction from his DEA buddies at about 1/4 of market price.

 

[grip]

Because it's not the government's business what a person willingly does with his own body, as long as it doesn't effect someone else. I suppose you're for banning everything that's bad for you right? There are plenty of illegal drugs that are much less destructive than alcohol.

Many will argue with you that by the lower income, causing debilitating health issues related to smoking/drug use they are draining the medicaid/medicare funds putting further strain on increasing healthcare costs. That affects everyone. Believe it or not I'm for drawing a line to gov intrusion to a point, regardless of some costs because the freedom to learn from your own mistakes is an invaluable and irreplaceable asset to individual growth. And that which benefits the individual ultimately benefits society as a whole.

 

[Northern Light]

Who says, "The War ON Drugs" is a failure? Drugs are a bigger enemy than terrorism and have killed far more. And how much have we spent on that war?

I guess we just get rid of all laws, since people will break them anyway?

Prescription drugs kill more people per year from adverse reactions and accidental overdose than all illegal drugs combined, and the pharmaceutical industry is one of the most profitable sectors in the world.

Besides which, many so-called dangerous and illicit narcotics actually have proven medicinal and psychotherapeutic uses. MDMA, MDA, LSD, DMT, etc. show curative potential for many different mental illnesses. The TCH and CBD in cannabis have been proven to kill microscopic pathogens in-vitro.

These substances are not illegal because of societal harm - that is merely the smoke screen - it's because they pose serious problems for competing industries. And in the United States, the war on drugs is the primary cash cow of the prison system and law enforcement. If drugs were decriminalized tomorrow, a lot of law enforcement would have to be laid off. Prisons would have to be downsized, and government would have to take a reduction in power.

Drugs are illegal, primarily, for politicoeconomic reasons, not really social ones as we have been told.

 

[grip]

Prescription drugs kill more people per year from adverse reactions and accidental overdose than all illegal drugs combined, and the is one of the most profitable sectors in the world.

Besides which, many so-called dangerous and illicit narcotics actually have proven medicinal and psychotherapeutic uses. MDMA, MDA, LSD, DMT, etc. show curative potential for many different mental illnesses. The TCH and CBD in cannabis have been proven to kill microscopic pathogens in-vitro.

These substances are not illegal because of societal harm - that is merely the smoke screen - it's because they pose serious problems for competing industries. And in the United States, the war on drugs is the primary cash cow of the prison system and law enforcement. If drugs were decriminalized tomorrow, a lot of law enforcement would have to be laid off. Prisons would have to be downsized, and government would have to take a reduction in power.

Drugs are illegal, primarily, for politicoeconomic reasons, not really social ones as we have been told.

I completely disagree. Though the pharmaceutical industry definitely pushes more unnecessary medications than ever for sheer profit, much of modern civilizations growth and success is do to the longer and healthier lives provided by prescription drugs. Before antibiotics, heart and cancer treatments and surgery many more suffered and died.

And the hallucinogens you advocate as safe and beneficial are a class of the most useless and harmful drugs known to human kind. I wouldn't give that crap to my worst enemy. If drugs were decriminalized you'd have half the working population trying to perform their jobs stoned and stupid. I think that's a completely irresponsible and idiotic concept.

 

[AreteCourage]

I completely disagree. Though the pharmaceutical industry definitely pushes more unnecessary medications than ever for sheer profit, much of modern civilizations growth and success is do to the longer and healthier lives provided by prescription drugs. Before antibiotics, heart and cancer treatments and surgery many more suffered and died.

And the hallucinogens you advocate as safe and beneficial are a class of the most useless and harmful drugs known to human kind. I wouldn't give that crap to my worst enemy. If drugs were decriminalized you'd have half the working population trying to perform their jobs stoned and stupid. I think that's a completely irresponsible and idiotic concept.

That is absolute false and misleading claim at best.

You assume that drugs were legalized (or decriminalized) that somehow sober people will want to go use those drugs. That is asinine. If heroine, crystal meth, cocaine, or anything else suddenly became legal...we would NOT see any significant uptick in usage over the long term.

It is a myth that you are perpetuating.

While I agree that pharmaceuticals have greatly improved our lifespans....they are the cause of a lot of death as well. There are pills for everything now...I mean everything. Conditions that simply did not exist (restless leg syndrome anyone?) there is a pill for it. These companies could give two cents about curing a disease or helping the person. They care about the profits and the bottom dollar.

Now you said earlier that legalization would put a burden on our healthcare system. That is true, but that is something else we need to change and probably not suited to debate in detail here. The burden we would put there would pale in comparison to what we do with our corrections system. We would identify addiction as a medical issue rather than a criminal one. We would actually HELP people overcome the addictions rather than stick them in a prison where drug use is rampant.

The question of all of this is...Does the government have the right to dictate what you put in your body? The answer is very easy. No, they do not. As long as you don't infringe on someone else...they have no right to tell you what to put in your body. As the religious people say; that is your temple. It is yours to mess up or stay clean...not any other entity.

 

[grip]

That is absolute false and misleading claim at best.

You assume that drugs were legalized (or decriminalized) that somehow sober people will want to go use those drugs. That is asinine. If heroine, crystal meth, cocaine, or anything else suddenly became legal...we would NOT see any significant uptick in usage over the long term.

It is a myth that you are perpetuating.

Read a little history about the "Opium Wars" and how many people were actually addicted. Everyone talks now days with their opinions as though they're fact without knowing anything about history. It's happened before and to comment without knowing that is asinine.

While I agree that pharmaceuticals have greatly improved our lifespans....they are the cause of a lot of death as well. There are pills for everything now...I mean everything. Conditions that simply did not exist (restless leg syndrome anyone?) there is a pill for it. These companies could give two cents about curing a disease or helping the person. They care about the profits and the bottom dollar.

Now you said earlier that legalization would put a burden on our healthcare system. That is true, but that is something else we need to change and probably not suited to debate in detail here. The burden we would put there would pale in comparison to what we do with our corrections system. We would identify addiction as a medical issue rather than a criminal one. We would actually HELP people overcome the addictions rather than stick them in a prison where drug use is rampant.

The question of all of this is...Does the government have the right to dictate what you put in your body? The answer is very easy. No, they do not. As long as you don't infringe on someone else...they have no right to tell you what to put in your body. As the religious people say; that is your temple. It is yours to mess up or stay clean...not any other entity.

The gov has a aright to protect the general populace from inebriated jag offs that endanger others. But they can't literally prevent the illegal ingestion of narcotics. If you love them so much feel free to fill up on them.

 

[tessaesque]

Who says, "The War ON Drugs" is a failure? Drugs are a bigger enemy than terrorism and have killed far more. And how much have we spent on that war?

I guess we just get rid of all laws, since people will break them anyway?

Decriminalizing drug use in Portugal lowered drug deaths, violent crime, and drug-related crime (prostitution, petty theft, etc).

 

[grip]

Decriminalizing drug use in Portugal lowered drug deaths, violent crime, and drug-related crime (prostitution, petty theft, etc).

If you think the younger and inexperienced who don't have much exposure to drug use would fare well and use mature judgment, then by all means push for the legalization of hard narcotics. I have no problem decriminalizing marijuana and milder substances but I think you and many others would be mortified the first time your own 18 yr child tells you I've been using opioid's, meth or crack (possibly all 3) for the past 3 months and have a physical and psychological addiction.

As a matter of fact I'd like to see everyone who wants to legalize drugs go to a few treatment centers and talk to the destroyed lives. You have no idea what you're asking, until you've either been through it or lived with loved ones who have. And if you have and still want legalization of all drugs, then you didn't learn much.

 

[tessaesque]

If you think the younger and inexperienced who don't have much exposure to drug use would fare well and use mature judgment, then by all means push for the legalization of hard narcotics. I have no problem decriminalizing marijuana and milder substances but I think you and many others would be mortified the first time your own 18 yr child tells you I've been using opioid's, meth or crack (possibly all 3) for the past 3 months and have a physical and psychological addiction.

As a matter of fact I'd like to see everyone who wants to legalize drugs go to a few treatment centers and talk to the destroyed lives. You have no idea what you're asking, until you've either been through it or lived with loved ones who have. And if you have and still want legalization of all drugs, then you didn't learn much.

My mother is addicted to heroin and crack.
My cousin is a raging alcoholic (he recently went through 8 750ml bottles of hard liquor in less than 5 days).

I know addiction. I'm well aware of the damage drugs do.

But you know what else happened in Portugal when they decriminalized? Drug use DROPPED and drug treatment programs EXPANDED. Why? Because instead of sending addicts to jail and shaming them into a life of lying, deception, and criminal behavior, Portugal embraced the problem and created a system that actually seeks to solve it.

So you can preach all day like you know more about the situation than everybody else, but you're not alone in your exposure, assuming you have real exposure. And facts don't lie.

 

[grip]

My mother is addicted to heroin and crack.
My cousin is a raging alcoholic (he recently went through 8 750ml bottles of hard liquor in less than 5 days).

I know addiction. I'm well aware of the damage drugs do.

But you know what else happened in Portugal when they decriminalized? Drug use DROPPED and drug treatment programs EXPANDED. Why? Because instead of sending addicts to jail and shaming them into a life of lying, deception, and criminal behavior, Portugal embraced the problem and created a system that actually seeks to solve it.

So you can preach all day like you know more about the situation than everybody else, but you're not alone in your exposure, assuming you have real exposure. And facts don't lie.

Like I said if you're so sure of your knowledge, then actively push for the legalization of all narcotics. And if you see more lives destroyed, then you can be proud of your preaching. But comparing a smaller country with a different social structure may not be a realistic comparison, assuming the statistics were not skewed in any way, shape or form.

I can almost guarantee drug use will sky rocket here, not drop and would LOVE to bet you on it. I have more personal experience than you can imagine my young friend. You want to play with the devils toys I promise you'll pay his price and I don't care how smart and strong you think you are.

 

[AreteCourage]

Read a little history about the "Opium Wars" and how many people were actually addicted. Everyone talks now days with their opinions as though they're fact without knowing anything about history. It's happened before and to comment without knowing that is asinine.

I know a lot about the Opium Wars. We are not talking about history. We are talking about the failure of the current drug policies. You advocate wasting money on something that is CLEAR and UTTER failure.

You need read up on the Portugal drug model that they adopted over a decade ago. They decriminalized ALL drugs and have seen reduction in crime, and usage. They saw significant drops in lifetime heroin use among people ages 16-18, HIV infections dropped 17%. The facts are out that there are better ways to deal with drugs than prohibition. You realize that prohibition essentially funds the drug cartels, right? They black market what our government prohibits. Essentially, we are giving money to those cartels. Not only that, but we're spending billions upon billions of dollars on something WE WILL NEVER fix.

Don't sit there and tell me what I am knowledgeable about. I've spent a lot of time researching and analyzing the drug war. I know what I'm talking about. There is a mountain of evidence to show that our policy is a waste of money. Money that we could be making is flushed down the toilet in this useless prohibition.

The gov has a aright to protect the general populace from inebriated jag offs that endanger others. But they can't literally prevent the illegal ingestion of narcotics. If you love them so much feel free to fill up on them.

Like I said...if they infringe on others...that is a different issue. It has nothing to do with what I want to do. You misinterpret the meaning of my argument. I'm not saying these things because I take the drugs. I am 100% sober. I don't do drugs. I have experimented in the past like most kids in college did, but those days are behind me. My argument is based solely on fiscal responsibility. Why the hell are we wasting money on something we can never fix? Why fight a war we can never win?

We need to rethink policy, and change the mindset of drugs. That isn't to say we should advocate usage. NO! Not at all. However, we shouldn't pretend that addicts are criminals. They are not criminals. I see addiction as a medical issue. They are sick and need medical attention...not be stuffed in a prison wasting our tax money.