Wake up House democrats

[veritas1]

This I agree with 100%. Those who thought a physical barrier and immigration reform was great when the Democrats including Presidents Carter, Clinton, Obama supported it, are now declaring it racist and mean. Hypocrites all.

Those who honestly believe in immigration policy and control simply cannot oppose a tiny pittance from the federal budget toward that end. To oppose it just because President Trump wants it is the worst form of partisanship and ideological fanaticism. All intellectually honest and/or rational people know that.

Sadly, ideological fanaticism has become the hallmark of the Dems since Trump was elected. Or, perhaps, just their true colors coming to the fore?

 

[RaleBulgarian]

and that's a bad argument,

It was a reasonable response to an extreme posit:

But then you probably have not had a member of your family killed by a criminal invader. Yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

due to the fact that until they commit a crime American citizens have every right to live in their own country whereas illegal aliens do not. why not stop as much crime as we can, from the beginning.

And your post is nonsensical. Americans who commit crimes do not lose their right to remain in America, and as far as I know, no country kicks out any of its own citizens for committing crimes. Sure, doing so would definitely cut crime rates way down, but I don’t the House or SCOTUS would buy off on the idea.

also EVERY illegal alien has already committed a crime, by definition.

Wrong. Children brought across the border by adults are not guilty of violating our immigration laws.

And what about those that come here by accident?

J/K a little levity to counter the undue panic.

 

[jnug]

Sadly, ideological fanaticism has become the hallmark of the Dems since Trump was elected. Or, perhaps, just their true colors coming to the fore?

Sadly, ideological fanaticism and the fear it fostered is in large part what got Trump elected.

 

[veritas1]

Sadly, ideological fanaticism and the fear it fostered is in large part what got Trump elected.

Not really. 8 years of Obama policies did it. Unless you think blue collar Dem workers in PA, MI & WI are ideological fanatics. Do ideological fanatics change parties and vote for the opposition?

 

[Luckyone]

It is time House democrats faced reality. The President wants the wall money. The Senate wants the wall money. The citizens of the country want the wall money.

How much have you personally donated to the Gofundme.com pool?

By the way, your comment about "the citizens of the country want the wall" is uninformed. A total of 307,000 people have donated to the Gofundme fund and considering that there are 193,500,000 people over 18 years old in the U.S., it means that only 1/2 of 1% of the available people have donated. Think about it.

 

[Hypothetical]

It was a reasonable response to an extreme posit:

And your post is nonsensical. Americans who commit crimes do not lose their right to remain in America, and as far as I know, no country kicks out any of its own citizens for committing crimes. Sure, doing so would definitely cut crime rates way down, but I don’t the House or SCOTUS would buy off on the idea.

Wrong. Children brought across the border by adults are not guilty of violating our immigration laws.

And what about those that come here by accident?
View attachment 67247294
J/K a little levity to counter the undue panic.

1. true but they go to jail and face penalties because they have committed a crime.
2. true, children brought here by adults are not voluntarily committing a crime.. the adults that bring them here are , however. and being BROUGHT here does not make anyone an american citizen.
3. who comes here by accident exactly? and do you or do you not still get a ticket if you speed by accident, or run a red light... by accident?

 

[jnug]

Not really. 8 years of Obama policies did it. Unless you think blue collar Dem workers in PA, MI & WI are ideological fanatics. Do ideological fanatics change parties and vote for the opposition?

Obama policies had nothing to do with the 2016 election. A reaction to the color of Obama's skin had more to do with 2016 than Obama policies.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

1. true but they go to jail and face penalties because they have committed a crime.
2. true, children brought here by adults are not voluntarily committing a crime.. the adults that bring them here are , however. and being BROUGHT here does not make anyone an american citizen.
3. who comes here by accident exactly? and do you or do you not still get a ticket if you speed by accident, or run a red light... by accident?

1. Going to jail and being kicked out of your home country aren’t the same. You suggested that Americans who commit crimes can be kicked of the U.S.. An absurd notion.
2. The children brought here by adults are not committing any crime, voluntarily or involuntarily. No crime, get it?
3. Dude, it was a joke. The character depicted is probably from before your time, but still you shoulda got it.

 

[Hypothetical]

1. Going to jail and being kicked out of your home country aren’t the same. You suggested that Americans who commit crimes can be kicked of the U.S.. An absurd notion.
2. The children brought here by adults are not committing any crime, voluntarily or involuntarily. No crime, get it?
3. Dude, it was a joke. The character depicted is probably from before your time, but still you shoulda got it.

1 & 2. i didn't suggest that at all, my point is that american citizens don't get punished for crimes until they have committed one, but Illegal aliens by definition have committed crimes... so by stopping them we stop crime. now since you are ties up with the little peculiarities of what I stated then fine, lets change that then to say ADULT illegal aliens have committed crimes then, are you able to get past that point now?
3. oh the alf picture.. I thought that was your sig or something. didn't relate it at all to your post.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

1 & 2. i didn't suggest that at all, ...

Yeah you did. Clearly.

... ,due to the fact that until they commit a crime American citizens have every right to live in their own country whereas illegal aliens do not....

We’ll chalk it up to your poor wording and move on.

my point is that american citizens don't get punished for crimes until they have committed one, but Illegal aliens by definition have committed crimes... so by stopping them we stop crime. now since you are ties up with the little peculiarities of what I stated then fine, lets change that then to say ADULT illegal aliens have committed crimes then, are you able to get past that point now?

The only thing I am tied up with is facts. Adults who illegally enter our country are, by definition, criminals. Children who are illegally brought into our country by adults are not criminals. Also, did you do know that for most of the individuals caught illegally entering the United States it is a civil crime, and a misdemeanor? Not the MS13 “bad hombres” Trump wants us all to believe.

3. oh the alf picture.. I thought that was your sig or something. didn't relate it at all to your post.

I like ALF, but not that much.

 

[Hypothetical]

Yeah you did. Clearly.
We’ll chalk it up to your poor wording and move on.

The only thing I am tied up with is facts. Adults who illegally enter our country are, by definition, criminals. Children who are illegally brought into our country by adults are not criminals. Also, did you do know that for most of the individuals caught illegally entering the United States it is a civil crime, and a misdemeanor? Not the MS13 “bad hombres” Trump wants us all to believe.

I like ALF, but not that much.

yes my poor wording, sorry I am not going to sit here and make perfect syntax and worry about how i say every little thing for you as I don't have time. if you REALLY thought I was saying that americans can lose their citizenship for committing a crime, well... anyone knows that isn't true... You don't want to see what I am saying and wish to argue semantics. I was comparing punishment for crimes committed for either type and saying that the law is the law and crimes should be punished.

I don't care whether they are "bad hombres" or not, I merely want them to follow our laws if they wish to enter or stay in our country.. that means apply for citizenship or be accepted for asylum, and no getting around that system by saying they will do so and being let free in sanctuary city, then never showing up for court. IF that means tightening our immigration laws , then yes we should do so. should we be more lenient and give care to children? sure, merely because we should not let them get hurt if we can help it, but not adults.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

But then you probably have not had a member of your family killed by a criminal invader. Yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would be even MORE reason to NOT want some stupid wall, and to instead want real solutions that actually work.

You need to add about six more !!!!!!'s for maximum effect.

 

[CriticalThought]

It is time House democrats faced reality. The President wants the wall money. The Senate wants the wall money. The citizens of the country want the wall money.

If any of that were true then we wouldn't be on day 19 of a government shut down with a President squawking at reporters about how Mexico is still paying for the wall and steel may look better.

 

[grainbelt]

It is time House democrats faced reality. The President wants the wall money. The Senate wants the wall money. The citizens of the country want the wall money.

The senate doesnt want the wall money or they would already have it...what is your mental deficiency that you dont understand that? And what are all of the Republicans trading for the wall funding to get those dem votes?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[jnug]

Which does not address the hypocrisy of Democrats who were all for border security until President Trump wanted it.

Border security and the Wall are not the same thing. One does not equal the other. See...wasn't that easy.

 

[blarg]

It is time House democrats faced reality. The President wants the wall money. The Senate wants the wall money. The citizens of the country want the wall money.

ya i don't want the wall money and most of us didn't vote for trump

 

[blarg]

But then you probably have not had a member of your family killed by a criminal invader. Yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hopefully an american never kills anyone you know hate to see what you would want done with all of us

i got an idea lets let just about everyone come on in legally and just focus on keeping out and deporting people with a history of violent crime or who call for violence

that way we can focus efforts on where its needed most

 

[RaleBulgarian]

yes my poor wording, sorry I am not going to sit here and make perfect syntax and worry about how i say every little thing for you as I don't have time. if you REALLY thought I was saying that americans can lose their citizenship for committing a crime, well... anyone knows that isn't true... You don't want to see what I am saying and wish to argue semantics. I was comparing punishment for crimes committed for either type and saying that the law is the law and crimes should be punished.

I don’t know you and I’m not a mind reader, and yes there are people dumb enough to think that committing a crime can cause citizenship to be revoked (remember Trump suggesting that football players should lose their citizenship for kneeling during the national anthem?).

I was comparing punishment for crimes committed for either type and saying that the law is the law and crimes should be punished.

Generally I’d agree with you, but life isn’t black/white and not all laws are clear or even justified. That’s why we have a justice system.

I don't care whether they are "bad hombres" or not, I merely want them to follow our laws if they wish to enter or stay in our country.. that means apply for citizenship or be accepted for asylum, and no getting around that system by saying they will do so and being let free in sanctuary city, then never showing up for court.

If you care so much about our laws, then why aren’t you more upset with the 600,000 foreigners who have overstayed their visas in 2017.
“More than 600,000 foreign travelers who legally entered the United States in 2017 overstayed their visas and remained in the country by the end of the year, according to Department of Homeland Security data”
That is roughly twice as many “illegal invaders” as crossed our southern border last year.
“DHS data shows that illegal immigration across the southern border is at historic lows – slightly more than 300,000 immigrants were caught crossing the border in 2017.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/924316002
And as for the false claim that very few immigrants show up for their court date: “The Justice Department’s FY2016 Statistics Yearbook reports that 25 percent of immigration cases were decided “in absentia” — meaning “when an alien fails to appear.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/more-bogus-border-claims/
Fact is, Trump is a racist/xenophobe who vilifies and lies about brown people, ignoring facts/truth to keep them out of our country.

Yes, we absolutely have a problem with illegal border crossings and yes, sometimes people who come across are “bad hombres” that commit terrible crimes against American citizens and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of our laws. However, facts simply do not justify the current level of misguided/bigoted rhetoric and exaggerated worry.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Border security and the Wall are not the same thing. One does not equal the other. See...wasn't that easy.

If physical barriers don't help keep out unwanted intruders, why don't the Democrats all take down the security walls and fences around their personal property? Take down the fences around the White House. Unlock all the doors. Let anybody and everybody come and go wherever they please and whenever they please as of course none are dangerous or undesirable and it won't be any problem at all.

 

[Hypothetical]

I don’t know you and I’m not a mind reader, and yes there are people dumb enough to think that committing a crime can cause citizenship to be revoked (remember Trump suggesting that football players should lose their citizenship for kneeling during the national anthem?).

Generally I’d agree with you, but life isn’t black/white and not all laws are clear or even justified. That’s why we have a justice system.

If you care so much about our laws, then why aren’t you more upset with the 600,000 foreigners who have overstayed their visas in 2017.
“More than 600,000 foreign travelers who legally entered the United States in 2017 overstayed their visas and remained in the country by the end of the year, according to Department of Homeland Security data”
That is roughly twice as many “illegal invaders” as crossed our southern border last year.
“DHS data shows that illegal immigration across the southern border is at historic lows – slightly more than 300,000 immigrants were caught crossing the border in 2017.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/924316002
And as for the false claim that very few immigrants show up for their court date: “The Justice Department’s FY2016 Statistics Yearbook reports that 25 percent of immigration cases were decided “in absentia” — meaning “when an alien fails to appear.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/more-bogus-border-claims/
Fact is, Trump is a racist/xenophobe who vilifies and lies about brown people, ignoring facts/truth to keep them out of our country.

Yes, we absolutely have a problem with illegal border crossings and yes, sometimes people who come across are “bad hombres” that commit terrible crimes against American citizens and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of our laws. However, facts simply do not justify the current level of misguided/bigoted rhetoric and exaggerated worry.

1. fair enough, I am not dumb enough to think that and what I meant by it was what I explained the last post.

2. I am upset with 600,000 Illegal aliens that have overstayed visas. we need a solution for that as well.
let me explain to you very clearly though, that I don't even necessarily like Trump a lot of the time, but I don't think he is xenophobic, nor racist. I do think he says some stupid **** sometimes and whether that is because he is less than genius, or has hung around NY mafia for too long or just likes to piss people off, I am not sure. I don't really like him though, but...

I , as are MANY americans, are sick and tired of having the mainstream politicians talk and promise, talk and promise, bull**** , talk and promise. you want to know why I support Trump in this even if its not the best or only solution we have to figure out? because he seems to be the ONLY ONE that ACTUALLY wants to DO SOMETHING about the problem.

thats how sick I am of mainstream bull**** politics in this country as are many other regular americans that voted for Trump, and if you can't understand THAT and wish to explain it away with some nonsense about xenophobia, then so be it.


I have conservative views on some things and progressive on others, but there are 2 points i will not concede...

No one is going to circumvent the constitution unless they do so properly by amending it AND our laws will be followed equally by ALL, including illegal aliens, corporate businessmen and wall street bankers, and rich billionaires.
no one in this country should be immune from the laws we have prescribed and I am sick of people using escape clauses to circumvent them, whether they are illegal aliens, liberals who want to help Illegal aliens, bankers who use their money to get off from crimes or ruining the economy, or lawyers and politicians who help them.

that is what we must fight against. Trump is merely a tool to actually get something done in the first instance. prove him a criminal and I will clap as he is locked up. then go vote for someone to take down the criminal elements on wall street... BUT we must have non mainstream politicians who are WILLING TO DO SOMETHING to get there.

 

[Xyce]

If physical barriers don't help keep out unwanted intruders, why don't the Democrats all take down the security walls and fences around their personal property? Take down the fences around the White House. Unlock all the doors. Let anybody and everybody come and go wherever they please and whenever they please as of course none are dangerous or undesirable and it won't be any problem at all.

There does seem to be some hypocrisy or cognitive dissonance between well-off Democrats who can afford to live in walled-in homes and gated communities who are against the wall as being ineffective.

 

[iguanaman]

There does seem to be some hypocrisy or cognitive dissonance between well-off Democrats who can afford to live in walled-in homes and gated communities who are against the wall as being ineffective.

Then build your own wall around your own house. We are not paying for Trump's mythical pet project. It's nothing but a scam to get millions in kickbacks for himself.

 

[Helix]

It is time House democrats faced reality. The President wants the wall money. The Senate wants the wall money. The citizens of the country want the wall money.

it's a good thing that Mexico will be providing the money, in that case.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

1. fair enough, I am not dumb enough to think that and what I meant by it was what I explained the last post.

2. I am upset with 600,000 Illegal aliens that have overstayed visas. we need a solution for that as well.
let me explain to you very clearly though, that I don't even necessarily like Trump a lot of the time, but I don't think he is xenophobic, nor racist. I do think he says some stupid **** sometimes and whether that is because he is less than genius, or has hung around NY mafia for too long or just likes to piss people off, I am not sure. I don't really like him though, but...

I , as are MANY americans, are sick and tired of having the mainstream politicians talk and promise, talk and promise, bull**** , talk and promise. you want to know why I support Trump in this even if its not the best or only solution we have to figure out? because he seems to be the ONLY ONE that ACTUALLY wants to DO SOMETHING about the problem.

thats how sick I am of mainstream bull**** politics in this country as are many other regular americans that voted for Trump, and if you can't understand THAT and wish to explain it away with some nonsense about xenophobia, then so be it.


I have conservative views on some things and progressive on others, but there are 2 points i will not concede...

No one is going to circumvent the constitution unless they do so properly by amending it AND our laws will be followed equally by ALL, including illegal aliens, corporate businessmen and wall street bankers, and rich billionaires.
no one in this country should be immune from the laws we have prescribed and I am sick of people using escape clauses to circumvent them, whether they are illegal aliens, liberals who want to help Illegal aliens, bankers who use their money to get off from crimes or ruining the economy, or lawyers and politicians who help them.

that is what we must fight against. Trump is merely a tool to actually get something done in the first instance. prove him a criminal and I will clap as he is locked up. then go vote for someone to take down the criminal elements on wall street... BUT we must have non mainstream politicians who are WILLING TO DO SOMETHING to get there.

It is refreshing to discuss current American politics with a Trump supporter who is willing to acknowledge disagreements with at least some of what he says and does. Many aren’t, so thank you.

I can’t however, go along with your belief that any action is good action. Trump’s wall isn’t about making America safer, it’s about placating his base that ignorantly believes illegal immigration over our southern border is a national emergency, even though facts prove otherwise.

Aside from his pathologic need to be praised, the only things that motivate Trump are greed and hatred of those that don’t look like him. My belief is not based on any personal animus for Trump, but by his own words and actions.

Ultimately, the only thing we are in agreement on is ....

Trump is merely a tool

:cheers:

 

[veritas1]

Obama policies had nothing to do with the 2016 election. A reaction to the color of Obama's skin had more to do with 2016 than Obama policies.

Really? Obama wasn't running. If his skin color had something to do with election results, you'd think he would have been defeated in 2008 or 2012. Reverting to the racism excuse is weak but expected.