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Wake up House democrats

The majority of the people do not want a wall. The majority of the people support secure borders, just not a wall. Wake up !

But Democrats don't want secure borders. They create sanctuary cities, sanctuary states, and let illegals vote in local elections.
 
They were persistent and very vocal that the horde of illegals should be stopped and the border should be discouraged. And they ordered fencing/walls put up.

to be clear, we both acknowledge that the proposal was not only to fund a wall
please clarify if i am wrong about this agreement
 
and as the president said...Mexico should pay for it. We will wait until Mexico pays for it.

Thanks for the update.

Diving Mullah

People who want the wall don't give a rat's ass who pays for it. People who don't want the wall wouldn't want a wall even if Mexico paid for it.
 
But Democrats don't want secure borders. They create sanctuary cities, sanctuary states, and let illegals vote in local elections.

It is not legal for illegal immigrants to vote in elections.
 
People who want the wall don't give a rat's ass who pays for it. People who don't want the wall wouldn't want a wall even if Mexico paid for it.

while i do not want 'the wall' if the US government has to pay for it, if mexico ponies up for it, sure, why not

which should demonstrate that what you posted was inaccurate (as usual)
 
People who want the wall don't give a rat's ass who pays for it. People who don't want the wall wouldn't want a wall even if Mexico paid for it.

A wall that is free to the American tax payer is a different story. There are still downsides, such as eminent domain issues on the American side, but I feel like if it would finally shut the vocal uneducated xenophobes up by letting them sleep at night in the myth that America is somehow safer thanks to a border wall, then by all means, let Mexico build a wall.
 
The Wall as described by Trump during his campaign was a bad idea no matter who paid for it. Saying Mexico would pay for it simply made a b bad idea sound palatable to people not willing to devote the time to figuring out it was and is a bad idea no matter who pays for it. Not to mention, the only actual way to get Mexico to pay for it would for Mexico to build it ON THEIR SIDE. Any guesses as to how much of a possibility that ever was?
 
But then you probably have not had a member of your family killed by a criminal invader. Yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Has a member of your family been murdered by an illegal immigrant?

Odds are no, considering that illegals are less likely than native born American citizens to commit murder and most other crimes.
 
But Democrats don't want secure borders. They create sanctuary cities, sanctuary states, and let illegals vote in local elections.
One the dumbest, illogical and provably wrong weak a** arguments put forth by Trump drones.
 
I finally agree that the way this ends is Trump gets to declare victory no matter the facts. Trump does not care about facts anyway.

He has been saying for weeks that the "Wall" building was in progress. Further he has claimed that most of it is built.

I say that the Dems should offer $1.3B and $1.00 for Border Security in this CR. Trump can claim that the whole project is now done. They only needed one more dollar to finish and the Dems crumbled, giving him his $1.00. THE END!
 
Hey, then just have NO barriers at all. Using your logic, that should require the least manpower.

The upkeep of nothing is, in fact, nothing.
 
Until there is a legitimate study and a complete proposal for this mythical "wall" it is dead in the water and it should be. Have you ever even wondered why none of this has been done? We don't spend 10's of billions on "gut feelings" fed by emotionally charged rhetoric . Your fear tactics are pitiful too. Have you no shame? Illegals are actually LESS likely to commit crimes than natural born citizens.

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/aug/03/antonio-villaraigosa/mostly-true-undocumented-immigrants-less-likely-co/

What tripe. First off, of course the left wants "studies" that go on forever and reach the conclusions they desire. The wall will work. It's why the left doesn't want it. We all know that. Your last comments are what's pathetic. It doesn't matter if illegal aliens commit NO crimes. They are here ILLEGALLY. What do you not understand about this? What other of our laws do you suggest we ignore based on your "gut feelings"? I offered no emotionally charged rhetoric, simply a logical statement. We have a border and are a sovereign nation. Any government that fails to protect that is failing in its most fundamental duty. So, don't give me that have you no shame BS. That's simply an attempt to deflect from the topic.
 
pin cushions work. everyone knows this. it's why people continue to use them. any claim to the contrary is not rooted in real world experience. over time, pin cushions save many, many times their cost
since pin cushions work in many situations we must therefor, according to the above post, be willing to apply them everywhere because that is the 'logic' found in that above post. no mention whether it is the appropriate device to use to solve the problem at hand, just accept the notion because something works in some places we must thus conclude that such a device will work in all instances. the * pin cushion principle * just evoked, is as sound as the * wall * principle, above

What's the appropriate "device"? The left should just admit that it doesn't care and is happy to have illegal aliens come here. It will make the discussion much more open and transparent.
 
Again, were is a study with stats proving the wall will do as Trump says it will ? Why are Rigties afraid of such a study ?

What sort of "study" do you need? Walls work, whether around buildings or on borders. Israel cut their illegal immigration from Egypt to zero because they put a wall on their southern border. But who needs real world examples when you can do studies?
 
And Democrats wanted the wall money until President Trump became President.

It's easy to find all sorts of statements by Hillary, Obama, Schumer, Pelosi and others decrying illegal immigration. Now, they say if you oppose it, you're racist. No, they are frauds is more like it.
 
and as the president said...Mexico should pay for it. We will wait until Mexico pays for it.

Thanks for the update.

Diving Mullah

Yea, heaven forbid we'd spend 1% or less of the budget on building a border wall. We need money for important things like studying the sex habits of quails on cocaine.:lol:
 
What's the appropriate "device"? The left should just admit that it doesn't care and is happy to have illegal aliens come here. It will make the discussion much more open and transparent.

"I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."
there is much more to border security than 'the wall'
a comprehensive effort needs to be accomplished to identify and implement all of the things our border security system needs to work
that need pre-dates reagan's conferring citizenship for resident illegals
a comprehensive system was to be put in place following that amnesty
which tells us tRump is not alone in kicking that eld and battered can down the road
that said, something more than 'the wall' needs to be identified as a solution to the problem ... because:
"... if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."
 
there is much more to border security than 'the wall'
a comprehensive effort needs to be accomplished to identify and implement all of the things our border security system needs to work
that need pre-dates reagan's conferring citizenship for resident illegals
a comprehensive system was to be put in place following that amnesty
which tells us tRump is not alone in kicking that eld and battered can down the road
that said, something more than 'the wall' needs to be identified as a solution to the problem ... because:

We know what walls are for. Unlike the hammer quip, the wall will be used for the reasons that all walls are used. Putting up the wall doesn't mean you ignore other efforts at stopping illegal immigration. We'd still need boots on the ground, drones and other surveillance measures. However, without the wall, you'll need MUCH more of it. The wall will funnel people to legal ports of entry or discourage them altogether once they find they can no longer get across the border. That is the essential objective for most people. I say most because the elites are happy to have illegal immigration continue to supply cheap labor and the left is happy because they can tell themselves they're not "racists".
 
We know what walls are for. Unlike the hammer quip, the wall will be used for the reasons that all walls are used. Putting up the wall doesn't mean you ignore other efforts at stopping illegal immigration. We'd still need boots on the ground, drones and other surveillance measures. However, without the wall, you'll need MUCH more of it. The wall will funnel people to legal ports of entry or discourage them altogether once they find they can no longer get across the border. That is the essential objective for most people. I say most because the elites are happy to have illegal immigration continue to supply cheap labor and the left is happy because they can tell themselves they're not "racists".

the wall is only part of the system of border control
show us the entirety of the system and how the 'wall' fits into that comprehensive plan
but that's the problem. there is no comprehensive plan for better border security and dealing with illegals
"I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."
 
But then you probably have not had a member of your family killed by a criminal invader. Yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nope.

And I live in a Latino neighborhood in San Diego.

Never had an issue beyond guys hitting on my wife.

Can't remember the last time it happened here.

Had to have been in the last couple of days, if its such a thing.
 
Congress recently passed an $867 billion dollar farm bill. We spend billions in Iraq and Afghanistan and more billions on foreign aid. Yet, we can't spend 20-25 billion on a barrier at the border. The wall would cost about one half of one percent of the total Federal budget. That's .005%. There is no fiscal argument against the wall. There is no efficacy argument against it. There are only ideological arguments against it and that is why the Democrats oppose it. That and because it's something Trump wants.

As I have said repeatedly.

Get your guys to go after employers with fines and rewards and THEN lets see if its worth spending the money.

As to the farm bill, I'm kinda tired of forking over tax money to keep food prices down so donors can keep wages low.
 
Since there are up to 20 million illegal aliens here already, that may be true but it also shows that what we've done to date has failed. The problem is that too many people want it to fail.

Including republican donors or it would have been.

What makes you think all of the forces paying our politicians to ignore employers are gonna let trump build a wall?

You had two whole years to break it off in employers of illegals.

But you want billions for trumps monument to his ego.

I have billions in my dick. Trump can suck them out.
 
It appears we will do neither. We won't put up a wall and we won't punish employers. The elites will be happy and the average taxpayer will bear the burdens and pay the bills. It is such situations which eventually lead to unrest.

You're fussing at the left.

Address the beam in YOUR eye.
 
Even at $50 billion it's a bargain over the long term considering the cost of illegal immigration to taxpayers. With a wall, you do some monitoring, much of which can be done with drones and sensors. Manpower requirements will be less with a wall, not more. Upkeep is to be expected but should be minimal. A substantial barrier will need much less upkeep than corrugated metal and chickenwire.

2000 miles of border.

How many people per mile needed to respond to folks with ladders? Gotta be covered pretty closely, right?

At least a hundred posts with at least a dozen people each. Smugglers already misdirect, send "sacrifices" to get caught while a bunch go the other way, etc.

Repairs from damage, wear and tear, vehicles and their upkeep, drones and their upkeep, sensors and their upkeep. Thousands of guards.

Billions a year.
 
Walls work. Everyone knows this. It's why people continue to build them. Any claim to the contrary is not rooted in real world experience. The wall will save many, many times its cost. The taxpayers are already being defrauded in having to pay billions to address illegal immigration and its aftermath. Whatever we've done up to now is a consummate failure as 12-20 million illegal immigrants proves. Maybe you want illegal immigrants here. The first order of government is to protect the country and do right by its citizens. That is NOT happening when it comes to illegal immigration, either at the border or with visa overstays.

Orrin hatch tried to remove the employer sanctions from Reagan's amnesty weeks after passage.

Clean up YOUR house first.
 
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