[W:70]Science is Santa

[Quaestio]

Re: Science is Santa

No, art is not based on that assumption about reality at all. It is not based on any particular assumption about reality. But it does reflect its practitioners various reactions to reality and feelings about reality. Science is not based on any assumption at all. Science just limits itself to what its methodology can study; and that is physical reality. That is why man invented both arts and science.

When it comes down to it, our brain's perception of art and music and our responses to it is based in neuroscience.

 

[Quag]

Re: Science is Santa

Pee Wee! You've come back!

you went somewhere?

 

[devildavid]

Re: Science is Santa

Physical life, as I said in that post you say you considered, is unimportant. Prolongation of physical life is unimportant.

So you've got an alternative to physical life? What is it and how do you know about it?

So if you get an infection will you treat it? Or will you just let it slowly and painfully kill you? After all, any medical treatment that prolongs life is unimportant according to your attitude.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Re: Science is Santa

Physical life, as I said in that post you say you considered, is unimportant. Prolongation of physical life is unimportant.

So you've got an alternative to physical life? What is it and how do you know about it?
So if you get an infection will you treat it? Or will you just let it slowly and painfully kill you? After all, any medical treatment that prolongs life is unimportant according to your attitude.

You better believe the second Angel gets an infection, broken bone, cancer, or any other serious ailment, he'll be running to the hospital, full of doctors with scientific training and scientific machines to fix his problem. Something tells me he lacks the faith to just pray it away.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Re: Science is Santa

Physical life, as I said in that post you say you considered, is unimportant. Prolongation of physical life is unimportant.

So you have never bothered with any sort of doctor or medicine then?

 

[Tim the plumber]

Re: Science is Santa

I think it's important to separate science from technology. They are connected, but not the same. Also, very important to separate science from materialism and atheism, because they have become associated but are not even related.

You have no clue.

Science is just how we explore the world, by observation and trial and error. All animals do science, but of course our species takes it the farthest.

You have no clue. A snail does not do science.

There are two basic ways of knowing -- trusting authorities and experts, and discovering and experiencing things for yourself.

And as any cognitive scientist would also say; instinct. You have no clue.

We must use both to exist in the world. We can't figure out everything for ourselves, so we must trust experts and authorities.

Science broke away from the authority of the Catholic church -- probably because of the printing press and access to information, people became less trusting.

But now, ironically, for many people Science has become what the church was in the middle ages -- an infallible source of knowledge and understanding.

Science is difficult and doesn't provide the easy answers you might think it provides. Science isn't magic. You don't plug in questions and receive answers.

Science fanatics say it's self-correcting and peer-reviewed, which means it's a new and different source of knowledge. No. Like everything else run by humans, Science is political and influenced by money.

We should not have blind faith in science, as an infallible authority. Now days we have a tyranny of experts, deciding what is safe to put in our food and air and water. Deciding what drugs everyone should be taking. And deciding if there are gods and spirits or not.

You have no clue.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Science is Santa

I would love to see an example of an animal doing science.

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Science is Santa

I would love to see an example of an animal doing science.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Science is Santa

I was thinking of experiments.

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Science is Santa

I was thinking of experiments.

Problem solving using compound tools is experiments. I consider that applied science.

 

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

Then log off the internet and kill yourself. As you stated, the internet is just a techno toy and life is unimportant, so do us all a favor.

I think you're probably out of line based on some forum rule or another. So what does one say to an asshole who's told one to drop dead? Let's ponder that riddle together.

 

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

Reduced to art, your symphony disappears, it can't leave the mind of the composer and be played by the orchestra. Reduced to science, your symphony becomes sheet music and is able to be played and interpreted all around the world. Reduced to science, it can be recorded onto a CD or stored as a file and played anywhere, anytime, by anyone. Reduced to science, I can post a video of my favourite symphony to a compete stranger.

Art is the physical, scientific expression of the 'spiritual', or psychological, as us materialists think of it.

By your reasoning religion is also science. Your reduction to science of everything and anything in any way physical misses distinctions that seem to me intuitive and rational.

I like that work by Holst. My favorite symphony is Mahler's 2nd. That you and I have favorite symphonies seems to me an argument against their reduction to the science of harmonics and whatnot.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us values

Not all "Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us values". But they do not need too. Just like science has no need to give us values.

Comparing religion/beliefs to science is not logical it just does not follow. Poetry, art and music, are all very subjective experiences that can be good, bad, meaningful, meaningless, etc. Religious beliefs are subjective can be good (to certain extent only) to the individual, but to society and humanity, it is what divides humanity into warring factions.

Science it merely a method, not a belief system (like religion) it has never been a collections of values. Science is a tool of discovery and nothing more. Theists hate science and attack science it threatens the core of their beliefs. When Christians (or anyone of any faith) attack science it is surely a sign of weak faith. In fact the bible teaches believers, that their faith ought to be strong enough to forgive those who question their faith.

Poetry...

In Praise of the Führer

We often heard the sound of your voice
And listened silently, with folded hands,
As each word sank into our souls.
We all know: The day will come
That frees us from need and compulsion.

What is a year!
What is a law that would restrain us —
The pure faith that you have given us
Pulses through, guides our young lives.
My Führer, you alone are the way, the goal!


Art....

Music.....



Religion.....

Catholic Church sexual abuse cases

 

[Cephus]

Re: Science is Santa

Then log off the internet and kill yourself. As you stated, the internet is just a techno toy and life is unimportant, so do us all a favor.

I always love it when the religious say life is unimportant, then cling tenaciously to it. Christians are Christians, often because they are terrified to die so they make up imaginary afterlives so they don't feel so bad. But they still want all of the machines to keep them here. It isn't like the early church, where they had to make up rules that made suicide a sin because so many early Christians were offing themselves to go to heaven and it was getting in the way of the monetary support of the church.

 

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

I always love it when the religious say life is unimportant, then cling tenaciously to it. Christians are Christians, often because they are terrified to die so they make up imaginary afterlives so they don't feel so bad. But they still want all of the machines to keep them here. It isn't like the early church, where they had to make up rules that made suicide a sin because so many early Christians were offing themselves to go to heaven and it was getting in the way of the monetary support of the church.

If you don't understand a point that another member makes, you should ask a question of that other member. Anti-religious vomiting merely expels symptomatic shibboleths; it doesn't get to the cause of the sickness.

 

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

Fair enough

In that case, I would argue that the humanities, such as art and music, do not give meaning or understanding to us. It merely facilitates it

We have no quarrel there. Your formulation is perfectly acceptable as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Re: Science is Santa

Problem solving using compound tools is experiments. I consider that applied science.

Yeah, at a very long stretch but the claim was all animals.

Come on the Jelly fish!

 

[devildavid]

Re: Science is Santa

Fair enough

In that case, I would argue that the humanities, such as art and music, do not give meaning or understanding to us. It merely facilitates it

And for most people, the arts either entertain or do nothing at all. What percentage of the population really uses or needs the arts to facilitate meaning?

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Science is Santa

Yeah, at a very long stretch but the claim was all animals.

Come on the Jelly fish!

Well, haven't you heard of BRAIN CORAL?? The thoughts it must think.

 

[devildavid]

Re: Science is Santa

By your reasoning religion is also science. Your reduction to science of everything and anything in any way physical misses distinctions that seem to me intuitive and rational.

I like that work by Holst. My favorite symphony is Mahler's 2nd. That you and I have favorite symphonies seems to me an argument against their reduction to the science of harmonics and whatnot.

Liking a song is entirely dependent on the physical effect the song has on us. It requires the working physical sense of hearing. Take that away, and music means nothing. Music is physical, as all sound is.

 

[spud_meister]

Re: Science is Santa

By your reasoning religion is also science. Your reduction to science of everything and anything in any way physical misses distinctions that seem to me intuitive and rational.

I like that work by Holst. My favorite symphony is Mahler's 2nd. That you and I have favorite symphonies seems to me an argument against their reduction to the science of harmonics and whatnot.

In my view, religion was man's first attempt at science, a way to understand and explain the material world without the tools we have now, it used the immaterial to explain the material. Art is the opposite, it uses the material to explain the immaterial, including religion, and the human psyche. In a sense, art could be considered a for of neuroscience, as an exploration of the human consciousness.

 

[JustHanging]

Re: Science is Santa

That's precisely the OP point, pilgrim.

But Santa brought us much more. For example, he brought us our moral code.

And Santa brought us poetry, art, music, and religion, the things you said are important:

Whereas...

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us much more than science

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us an understanding of the human condition

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us values

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us a reason to live

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion are of real importance to humanity

 

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

But Santa brought us much more. For example, he brought us our moral code.

And Santa brought us poetry, art, music, and religion, the things you said are important:

Whereas...

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us much more than science

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us an understanding of the human condition

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us values

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us a reason to live

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion are of real importance to humanity

Point?

 

[Tim the plumber]

Re: Science is Santa

Well, haven't you heard of BRAIN CORAL?? The thoughts it must think.

If only we could somehow measure its' quantum computing that cause it to be part of the great universal conciousness (feel the force Luke!).

 

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

I would love to see an example of an animal doing science.

Then adopt two cats this month.