[W:70]Science is Santa

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

From your op


Science has given us millions of lives. Your quote implies those lives are not important. Correct me, and explain, if I am wrong.

First explain this claim that science has given us millions of lives. I don't know what you mean.

 

[sangha]

Re: Science is Santa

First explain this claim that science has given us millions of lives. I don't know what you mean.

science has goven us tools that enabled couples to conceive and bear children who, without that science, would not have been able to do so.

 

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

science has goven us tools that enabled couples to conceive and bear children who, without that science, would not have been able to do so.

Physical life, as I said in that post you say you considered, is unimportant. Prolongation of physical life is unimportant.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Re: Science is Santa

I think it's important to separate science from technology. They are connected, but not the same. Also, very important to separate science from materialism and atheism, because they have become associated but are not even related.

Science is just how we explore the world, by observation and trial and error. All animals do science, but of course our species takes it the farthest.

There are two basic ways of knowing -- trusting authorities and experts, and discovering and experiencing things for yourself. We must use both to exist in the world. We can't figure out everything for ourselves, so we must trust experts and authorities.

Science broke away from the authority of the Catholic church -- probably because of the printing press and access to information, people became less trusting.

But now, ironically, for many people Science has become what the church was in the middle ages -- an infallible source of knowledge and understanding.

Science is difficult and doesn't provide the easy answers you might think it provides. Science isn't magic. You don't plug in questions and receive answers.

Science fanatics say it's self-correcting and peer-reviewed, which means it's a new and different source of knowledge. No. Like everything else run by humans, Science is political and influenced by money.

We should not have blind faith in science, as an infallible authority. Now days we have a tyranny of experts, deciding what is safe to put in our food and air and water. Deciding what drugs everyone should be taking. And deciding if there are gods and spirits or not.

 

[sangha]

Re: Science is Santa

Physical life, as I said in that post you say you considered, is unimportant. Prolongation of physical life is unimportant.

I did not refer to physical life alone. Nor did I refer only to the prolonging of physical life. My last post explicitly referred to the creation of life, praise be to science.

You have been responding to my posts rather quickly. Maybe you should take more time to consider what I have said

Just a thought

 

[Cephus]

Re: Science is Santa

You are rude.

Why anyone keeps talking to him is beyond me.

 

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

I did not refer to physical life alone. Nor did I refer only to the prolonging of physical life. My last post explicitly referred to the creation of life, praise be to science.

You have been responding to my posts rather quickly. Maybe you should take more time to consider what I have said

Just a thought

But that's all science is about, physical life.
Touche.

 

[sangha]

Re: Science is Santa

But that's all science is about, physical life.
Touche.

That is debatable, but more importantly for this discussion, irrelevant. You spoke, not about what science IS, but about what science has given us

Science has given us life. Millions of them.

 

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

That is debatable, but more importantly for this discussion, irrelevant. You spoke, not about what science IS, but about what science has given us

Science has given us life. Millions of them.

What science gives us is limited by what science is.

 

[sangha]

Re: Science is Santa

What science gives us is limited by what science is.

That does not refute my claim that science has given us life.

Do you agree or disagree with this claim? If not, why?

 

[zyzygy]

Re: Science is Santa

Science has given us much more that religion has given us.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Re: Science is Santa

Think how much easier science has made it to proselytize.

Those mega church guys like Copeland wouldn't be able to fly around in tax exempt private 737's, retrofitted in a manner befitting a billionaire.

The dark ages were brought to us by...?

Kidding aside, this is actually a good thread because never really bought the Santa myth (either).

 

[spud_meister]

Re: Science is Santa

Whereas...

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us much more than science

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us an understanding of the human condition

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us values

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion give us a reason to live

Poetry, Art, Music, and Religion are of real importance to humanity

Poetry, music and art are science. They combine, to varying degrees, physics, chemistry, psychology and linguistics. Your favourite symphony depends on thousands of years of study of resonance, harmonics, tension, air pressure, vibrations and other physical phenomena. Paintings that stir the soul are experiments in chemistry and psychology, combining materials and pigments to cause reactions in peoples brains. Poets study language, rhyme and meter to understand themselves and the world around.

Your OP here is just an exercise in false dichotomy.

 

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

Why anyone keeps talking to him is beyond me.

Quite a lot is beyond you. How are things in Echo Canyon by the way?

 

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

Poetry, music and art are science. They combine, to varying degrees, physics, chemistry, psychology and linguistics. Your favourite symphony depends on thousands of years of study of resonance, harmonics, tension, air pressure, vibrations and other physical phenomena. Paintings that stir the soul are experiments in chemistry and psychology, combining materials and pigments to cause reactions in peoples brains. Poets study language, rhyme and meter to understand themselves and the world around.

Your OP here is just an exercise in false dichotomy.

The physical components of artistic material may submit to scientific analysis, but that doesn't make art science or science art. Reduce art to science and art disappears. My favorite symphony, reduced to the science involved, is no longer a symphony. It's a series of mathematical formulas. Science is based on the assumption that reality is physical; art is based on the assumption that reality is spiritual.

 

[Angel]

Re: Science is Santa

That does not refute my claim that science has given us life.

Do you agree or disagree with this claim? If not, why?

Nature gives life. Science has facilitated nature. I'm not trying to refute your claim; I'm trying to clarify the claim and show that your claim does not reach the OP thesis.

So, to get past this sticking point, let's say that science has "given" us life, the scare quotes reflecting my clarifications. What now?

 

[sangha]

Re: Science is Santa

Nature gives life. Science has facilitated nature. I'm not trying to refute your claim; I'm trying to clarify the claim and show that your claim does not reach the OP thesis.


So, to get past this sticking point, let's say that science has "given" us life, the scare quotes reflecting my clarifications. What now?

Fair enough

In that case, I would argue that the humanities, such as art and music, do not give meaning or understanding to us. It merely facilitates it

 

[Daisy]

Re: Science is Santa

What science gives us is limited by what science is.

Also limited to what the imperfect human brain is...

 

[spud_meister]

Re: Science is Santa

The physical components of artistic material may submit to scientific analysis, but that doesn't make art science or science art. Reduce art to science and art disappears. My favorite symphony, reduced to the science involved, is no longer a symphony. It's a series of mathematical formulas. Science is based on the assumption that reality is physical; art is based on the assumption that reality is spiritual.

Reduced to art, your symphony disappears, it can't leave the mind of the composer and be played by the orchestra. Reduced to science, your symphony becomes sheet music and is able to be played and interpreted all around the world. Reduced to science, it can be recorded onto a CD or stored as a file and played anywhere, anytime, by anyone. Reduced to science, I can post a video of my favourite symphony to a compete stranger.

Art is the physical, scientific expression of the 'spiritual', or psychological, as us materialists think of it.

 

[Gina]

Re: Science is Santa

Moderator's Warning:

You all are not the topic of this thread. Don't like what the other posters says, attack that not the poster. And do it without baiting.

 

[Conaeolos]

Re: Science is Santa

Science gives us nothing of value

Science gives us toys

Science is Santa

If I am reading your intention correctly my friend it's that a good deal of people in the modern world like to treat 'science' like a religion, insult relgion with it and that's quite hypocritical?

In my opinion , that would require those people actually know or be interested in what they meant by 'science'. Taking all the inventions of the world and saying they're a result of the 'scientific method' and also including 'best scientfic thoughts of the day' is just bonkers in my view and only does everything to highlight how few people respect the scientfic method. In any case, unfortunately now we all understand that to be one of the meaning of the word in certain contexts, so I regress.

Is technology and our current understanding of the world a wonderful thing and more than trival? Yes, of course. There is markedly less suffering.
Do people worship it? No, I don't think they do. There is an awe, but that is about it.

No, people just like to say stuff like "Science, 1000 years of which was denied by the christian and muslim churches. Humankind is still paying the price with codified prohibitions to stem cell research....for one major abomination." as it is their way of dealing with old-fashion anti-religious anger and general angst. It's how they express feeling frustrated with traditionalists or really any sentiment threating against their 'social progressive' idea of the day.

if no God, society then must be, the highest recognized form of consciousness, with all the authority and trappings that comes hence with. To not have the most progressive view of such a thing - pure blaspheme.

I'll tell you this whatever the new religion(s) they are indifferent to science. Always on show by many 1000s of taboos worked into the sciencific research even when against every counter. Heck look no further than "IQ and general intelligence" studies or environmental systems theory.

No, the new religion like old religion is just full of comments from our old familiar friend our 'ego'. Her message the same as ever: "I am…", "i created…", "I am part of…"they did…" "they do…", "the bible says so….", "the priest said so…" "science says so…" just the latest and greatest form of "I says so….and you better listen"

I just hope you don't get too embittered against scientific discovery because we like to use it as a tool of our egotistical tantrums. Science doesn't say anything. It's a method and history. One more way to reminds us creative humans, without humility there can be no discovery.

 

[devildavid]

Re: Science is Santa

The physical components of artistic material may submit to scientific analysis, but that doesn't make art science or science art. Reduce art to science and art disappears. My favorite symphony, reduced to the science involved, is no longer a symphony. It's a series of mathematical formulas. Science is based on the assumption that reality is physical; art is based on the assumption that reality is spiritual.

No, art is not based on that assumption about reality at all. It is not based on any particular assumption about reality. But it does reflect its practitioners various reactions to reality and feelings about reality. Science is not based on any assumption at all. Science just limits itself to what its methodology can study; and that is physical reality. That is why man invented both arts and science.

 

[Cephus]

Re: Science is Santa

No, art is not based on that assumption about reality at all. It is not based on any particular assumption about reality. But it does reflect its practitioners various reactions to reality and feelings about reality. Science is not based on any assumption at all. Science just limits itself to what its methodology can study; and that is physical reality. That is why man invented both arts and science.

It limits itself to what ANY methodology can study. The religious simply assert that there are things beyond the physical because they want there to be, not because they have any means of proving it. And that's the problem, they aren't concerned whether their silly beliefs are true, they certainly aren't verifiable, they feel good so that's what they're going to go with. And that's just dumb.

 

[William Rea]

Re: Science is Santa

Poetry, art and music gave us beautiful things like this

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Re: Science is Santa

Physical life, as I said in that post you say you considered, is unimportant. Prolongation of physical life is unimportant.

Then log off the internet and kill yourself. As you stated, the internet is just a techno toy and life is unimportant, so do us all a favor.