[W: #344] Who is Transphobic?

[Josie]

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for gender transition treatment in teens, including starting sex hormones at age 14 and some surgeries at 15.

apnews.com

If you don't support hormones at age 14 and some surgeries done at 15, are you transphobic?

 

[samiam5211]

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for gender transition treatment in teens, including starting sex hormones at age 14 and some surgeries at 15.

apnews.com

If you don't support hormones at age 14 and some surgeries done at 15, are you transphobic?

If you think that the government should prevent parents, children, and doctors from making that choice together, then yes.

 

[BirdinHand]

I think the vast majority of people that oppose this do so coming from a place of believing they know better than the parents and doctors involved in the situations.

And underlying THAT assumption is one flavor or another of transphobia, even if they don’t want to admit it.

I don’t know what it is like to walk in the shoes these individuals are walking in. My heart goes out to them as I’m sure it is challenging and difficult.

The government isn’t going to help the situation nor are busy bodies.

 

[Winston]

I’m not sure I’m on board with the left on this one. I don’t have a trans kid. But, disrupting puberty for a teenager seems incredibly dangerous and maybe regrettable down the line.

I will always support cross dressing and whatnot. Just let people live their lives. Let them be who they are on the inside. Why would I let that bother me? But, I think kids should have to go through puberty first.

 

[btthegreat]

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for gender transition treatment in teens, including starting sex hormones at age 14 and some surgeries at 15.

apnews.com

If you don't support hormones at age 14 and some surgeries done at 15, are you transphobic?

No. No single position on trans issues is sufficient evidence of transphobia. It takes a larger pattern of negative positions to suggest animus or antipathy towards a group.

 

[OrphanSlug]

I voted no, but odds are anyone who says anything in even mild opposition to the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (which is a 501c advocacy organization, it is not the AMA or APA) will be branded a hateful transphobic anyway.

Because that is where this conversation has arrived.

 

[Lisa]

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for gender transition treatment in teens, including starting sex hormones at age 14 and some surgeries at 15.

apnews.com

If you don't support hormones at age 14 and some surgeries done at 15, are you transphobic?

Those are decisions to be made by the treatment team after a through diagnosis and the patient with the approval of the parent or guardian. The treatment decisions for other diseases aren't for public input and treating gender identity is no different. We would not be having this discussion if it weren't for the lies being spread by conservative media.

 

[StillBallin75]

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for gender transition treatment in teens, including starting sex hormones at age 14 and some surgeries at 15.

apnews.com

If you don't support hormones at age 14 and some surgeries done at 15, are you transphobic?

If you think you ****ing know better than a ****ing doctor (doctors who have been studying and treating transgender children their entire professional lives) what kind of treatment they need, and when, then it's difficult for me to understand what motivates your position if it ISN'T transphobia and bigotry.

If you believe in withholding treatment from someone who needs it, if transphobia doesn't fit your bill, asshole certainly does.

Then again, as I've pointed out time and again, "libertarians" supporting authoritarian nonsense when it comes to inserting government in other people's lives is par for the course these days.

 

[TheGoverness]

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for gender transition treatment in teens, including starting sex hormones at age 14 and some surgeries at 15.

apnews.com

If you don't support hormones at age 14 and some surgeries done at 15, are you transphobic?

I think this question is a misnomer, because it's not like people only tailor their opinion on trans people based upon one specific thing like this.

Just look at how many threads are made on this subject, and how many of those same posters who participate in those threads, that say very despicable stuff about transgender people on other trans-related topics and issues. Look at the wording and the tone of how they write about transgender people. Transphobia, like homophobia, encompases a wide swath, and almost never has to do with one issue in specific, rather it focuses upon the prejudices that one holds.

I've had plenty of arguments where people have said to me I shouldn't be openly gay because of the children or whatnot. But an opinion like that isn't specific to what makes a person like that homophobic. They already feel that way, and it's one of their many outward justifications for why they dislike gay people, and same goes for other issues of a similar vein, like gay marriage, LGBT adoption, wedding cakes, etc.

When it comes to transphobes, they are working at the beginning of the "I don't like trans people" starting line, and then run to find things that justify that position, not the other way around.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for gender transition treatment in teens, including starting sex hormones at age 14 and some surgeries at 15.

apnews.com

If you don't support hormones at age 14 and some surgeries done at 15, are you transphobic?

For one thing, each case is somewhat unique, and the use of labels like "transphobic" is a knee jerk reaction which, coming from you, is not the least bit surprising.
It's also not surprising when @AtlantaAdonis does it, so there's your ilk responding in kind.
It's also a ham-handed and disingenuous means of reducing everything to a buzz word which means you don't take anything about this issue seriously.

So, if we are to take this seriously, seeing as how there are fewer trans people than Arby's employees, I would recommend deciding on a case by case basis through the use of intensive psychological screening and with care taken to properly assess the candidate's emotional maturity and their ability to comprehend the full import of what they are seeking to do.

Naturally it would be wise to lean toward counseling and recommending a waiting period for a candidate so young however in certain cases it may be advisable to approve the procedure, as there are some cases where no better option exists, like FOR INSTANCE in cases where the patient is born intersex but their overall characteristics are clearly opposite their assigned gender at birth.

Again, because there aren't very many people like this compared to the general population there is no need for stiff rules that are used to apply to ALL under ALL circumstances, almost no two cases are alike.
This is something that should be evaluated on a case by case basis and thought through by a panel of experts and not just one professional.
The screening process should be done in a supportive and caring environment where the patient feels comfortable sharing their issues and outlook.

 

[TheGoverness]

I’m not sure I’m on board with the left on this one. I don’t have a trans kid. But, disrupting puberty for a teenager seems incredibly dangerous and maybe regrettable down the line.

I will always support cross dressing and whatnot. Just let people live their lives. Let them be who they are on the inside. Why would I let that bother me? But, I think kids should have to go through puberty first.

Just to be clear here, cross-dressing is not synonymous with being transgender. People who cross-dress wear clothes typically associated with one gender, while still identifying as something else, like a man who does drag or whatnot.

I'm pointing this out because being transgender often gets mixed with cross-dressing (often by people who dislike trans people and expand their hatred further on drag queens and the like), when that is an entirely separate thing, and it is also used to delegitimize the validity of trans people's identities.

Not saying this is you though, because I know you.

 

[CLAX1911]

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for gender transition treatment in teens, including starting sex hormones at age 14 and some surgeries at 15.

apnews.com

If you don't support hormones at age 14 and some surgeries done at 15, are you transphobic?

I've found disagreeing at all with any trans people about anything is transphobic. So if they want everybody to treat their kids as "gender neutral" you're transphobic if you think that's a bad idea.

It's just a way to attack someone if they don't fall in line. If you're being called transphobic you're doing something right.

 

[Gatsby]

If you don't support hormones at age 14 and some surgeries done at 15, are you transphobic?

I think the trans activist types have labeled so many things "transphobic" that they've alienated themselves from basically everyone who isn't terminally online at this point.

If you think that the government should prevent parents, children, and doctors from making that choice together, then yes.

Yes, I think government should prevent parents, children, and doctors from making that choice together. Guilty as charged.

I think the vast majority of people that oppose this do so coming from a place of believing they know better than the parents and doctors involved in the situations.

Yes, government regulation of medicine (i.e. "knowing better than the parents and doctors involved in the situations") is very important and if anything we should do more of it.

The government isn’t going to help the situation nor are busy bodies.

It has long been an important principle in our society that 1) the government should place restrictions on minors, because minors often make bad and irreversible decisions, 2) the government should regulate medicine, because some practitioners are unethical or unscrupulous or merely incompetent, 3) the government should regulate parenting in extreme cases, because some parents suck. All three principles are applicable here.

 

[CLAX1911]

I think the trans activist types have labeled so many things "transphobic" that they've alienated themselves from basically everyone who isn't terminally online at this point.

Yes, I think government should prevent parents, children, and doctors from making that choice together. Guilty as charged.

Yes, government regulation of medicine (i.e. "knowing better than the parents and doctors involved in the situations") is very important and if anything we should do more of it.

It has long been an important principle in our society that 1) the government should place restrictions on minors, because minors often make bad and irreversible decisions, 2) the government should regulate medicine, because some practitioners are unethical or unscrupulous or merely incompetent, 3) the government should regulate parenting in extreme cases, because some parents suck. All three principles are applicable here.

Remember the issue is never the issue. Division is the goal. It doesn't matter what issue is picked. It can be CRT and it can be racism it can be sexism and sometimes it's bigotry toward LGBT types.

 

[Gatsby]

Remember the issue is never the issue. Division is the goal. It doesn't matter what issue is picked. It can be CRT and it can be racism it can be sexism and sometimes it's bigotry toward LGBT types.

On Twitter the other day, I saw an apt description for what has happened to the LGBT movement over the past decade: "Evaporative cooling". The LGBT movement (which is basically just the T, and not the LGB, at this point) has grown much more radical, because the moderates are the first to declare victory and go home. So the movement started with some perfectly reasonable goals (e.g. marriage equality, anti-discrimination laws, the right to serve in the military). Then when it accomplished those, the moderates left and its goals became more radical (e.g. "bake the damn wedding cake and say my pronouns, bigot"). And then eventually, even those people left, and only the hardened extremists remained (e.g. sex change therapies for children).

 

[Phys251]

On Twitter the other day, I saw an apt description for what has happened to the LGBT movement over the past decade: "Evaporative cooling". The LGBT movement has grown much more radical, because the moderates are the first to declare victory and go home. So the movement started with some perfectly reasonable goals (e.g. marriage equality, anti-discrimination laws, the right to serve in the military). Then when it accomplished those, the moderates left and its goals became more radical (e.g. "bake the damn wedding cake and say my pronouns, bigot"). And then eventually, even those people left, and only the hardened extremists remained (e.g. sex change therapies for children).

Exactly what was said about feminists as they gained gender equality but realized that more ground was needed to be gained.

 

[Gatsby]

Exactly what was said about feminists as they gained gender equality but realized that more ground was needed to be gained.

And to some extent that's been true. Feminism encompasses a lot of things to different people, ranging from the perfectly reasonable (e.g. women should have the right to vote) to the absolutely batshit insane (e.g. "all heterosexual sex is rape" as Andrea Dworkin said). Feminism has managed to maintain its energy for 100+ years precisely because the extremists have been unable to chase the more mainstream elements out of the movement. Something the trans movement succeeded in doing.

In some ways the movement is a victim of its own success. The LGBT movement basically achieved all of their non-crazy goals, so the only people left are the ones who wanted the crazy stuff too.

 

[Phys251]

And to some extent that's been true. Feminism encompasses a lot of things to different people, ranging from the perfectly reasonable (e.g. women should have the right to vote) to the absolutely batshit insane (e.g. "all heterosexual sex is rape" as Andrea Dworkin said). Feminism has managed to maintain its energy for 100+ years precisely because the extremists have been unable to chase the more mainstream elements out of the movement. Something the trans movement has failed to do.

In some ways the movement is a victim of its own success. The LGBT movement basically achieved all of their non-crazy goals, so the only people left are the ones who wanted the crazy stuff too.

Really? All gay people are accepted everywhere by everyone?

 

[Gatsby]

Really? All gay people are accepted everywhere by everyone?

What I mean is that there isn't much left for the LGBT movement to accomplish politically. Maybe they can still make progress by changing the minds of individual people who don't like gay people, but there aren't any *political* goals left, aside from the insane stuff like gender-transitioning children.

 

[Phys251]

What I mean is that there isn't much left for the LGBT movement to accomplish politically. Maybe they can still make progress by changing the minds of individual people who don't like gay people, but there aren't any *political* goals left, aside from the insane stuff like gender-transitioning children.

Again, that's exactly the kind of shit that people said about second-wave feminists. And still do. "The decline of masculinity" has a bazillion hits on Google, for example.

 

[Gatsby]

Again, that's exactly the kind of shit that people said about second-wave feminists. And still do. "The decline of masculinity" has a bazillion hits on Google, for example.

There are still important, salient, and non-crazy political goals that many feminists advocate, which is what has kept the movement from being overrun by its most extreme elements. Paid maternal leave, for one example. If there weren't any issues like that, which kept the mainstream interested, then the Andrea Dworkin types would take over and the feminist movement would be marginalized very quickly.

What's the equivalent of paid maternal leave for the LGBT movement - an important, salient, and non-crazy political issue that keeps the mainstream people in the movement and serves as a counterweight to the extremists calling for gender-transitioning minors? It used to be marriage equality, then for a brief time it was military equality and anti-discrimination laws. Now that the movement has accomplished all those things, I'm not sure there's anything left of similar importance.

 

[CLAX1911]

On Twitter the other day, I saw an apt description for what has happened to the LGBT movement over the past decade: "Evaporative cooling". The LGBT movement (which is basically just the T, and not the LGB, at this point) has grown much more radical, because the moderates are the first to declare victory and go home. So the movement started with some perfectly reasonable goals (e.g. marriage equality, anti-discrimination laws, the right to serve in the military). Then when it accomplished those, the moderates left and its goals became more radical (e.g. "bake the damn wedding cake and say my pronouns, bigot"). And then eventually, even those people left, and only the hardened extremists remained (e.g. sex change therapies for children).

Right. Homosexuality and bisexuality and to a large degree transgenderism seems to have been accepted. To the point where there is nothing really left to fight for.

The issue isn't the issue. It doesn't matter if we accept all the screwball pronouns or gender affirming hormones for infants it won't be enough because the issue isn't the issue.

I may be beating around the bush a little bit here

 

[ralfy]

Related:

 

[CLAX1911]

Related:

I followed the links to get to the actual information and then reading about it and it doesn't seem very pleasant.

Something I've been reading about is the women who were married to men that transitioned they called them trans widows. There seems to be a heavy correlation with viewing certain pornography and also heavy social media use.

 

[Lisa]

The issue isn't the issue. It doesn't matter if we accept all the screwball pronouns or gender affirming hormones for infants it won't be enough because the issue isn't the issue.

I may be beating around the bush a little bit here

How to say that you don't understand biology without saying that you don't understand biology. Medical care for trans teens is not in any way new but you were told to set your hair on fire about the issue. This has been the standard medical treatment for trans teens since the publication of the DSM 3 in 1980. Maybe fox news and twitter should mention that to the people who get their news from conservative shills.