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[W:128] Iran protests: could this be the beginning of the end for the Islamic Republic?

ataraxia said:
I don't think most everyday Iranians give a rat's behind about Riyadh, or Tel Aviv, or Syria, or Lebanon. All this provocation and destabilization of the geopolitics in the middle east is for purposes of personal power by the mullahs. I am fairly confident the tensions in the middle east, and all this funding of Hamas and Hezbollah and Yemeni rebels, etc... will stop if the mullahs are gone.
Click to expand...

.....except they do.

For example.


Calling Saudi Arabia’s brutal slaughter in Yemen— atrocities which have killed FAR more the Russians in Ukraine, but get a tiny fraction of the attention, and which the US is complicit in— “Iranian provocations” is pretty absurd.

But way to prove my point. ANY government of Iran which asserts its own position in the Middle East— dictatorship or democracy— is going to be declared “destabilizing”, especially as it comes at the expense of the House of Saud.
 
Tigerace117 said:
.....except they do.

For example.


Calling Saudi Arabia’s brutal slaughter in Yemen— atrocities which have killed FAR more the Russians in Ukraine, but get a tiny fraction of the attention, and which the US is complicit in— “Iranian provocations” is pretty absurd.

But way to prove my point. ANY government of Iran which asserts its own position in the Middle East— dictatorship or democracy— is going to be declared “destabilizing”, especially as it comes at the expense of the House of Saud.
Click to expand...

If Iran evolves towards a stable democracy that isn't funding terrorists how is this "destabilizing" to Saudi Arabia?

Other than being one of the only democracies in the area.

Is Saudi Arabia "destabilized" by Iraq?
 
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Discuss the topic, respond to people's arguments, stay on topic, avoid all Baiting/Flaming/Trolling regardless of intensity. Just stop it. If you cannot discuss the topic without engaging in B/F/T, you are free to stop posting in this thread. Go to the basement.

Failure to abide by this warning may result in moderator action and/or thread banning. All posts made prior to this warning are still subject to moderator review and action.
 
ataraxia said:
It’s no secret that the Islamic Republic of Iran is deeply unpopular in Iran, especially among the more educated and urban areas of the country (which are not insignificant). But some recent events, including overzealous enforcement of “morality” for a young woman accused of not covering her hair enough in public, are leading to an explosion of massive protests all over the country. And this time, it’s more than just limited to women, young people, or educated people. It seems to be across all sorts of demographics and social strata.

The protests are entering their 6th day now.

Of course, in the past, these protests have always been put down by massively brutal and deadly crackdowns by the regime. The government has already shut down the internet in the country. But this looks like it’s going to be as big as the “green movement” of 2009.

It’s interesting this is not being covered so much by western media. It might be the beginning of some big changes there. I guess we will see.

Click to expand...

Keeping my fingers crossed but authoritarian regimes have many tools to hold onto power.
 
Tigerace117 said:
.....except they do.

For example.


Calling Saudi Arabia’s brutal slaughter in Yemen— atrocities which have killed FAR more the Russians in Ukraine, but get a tiny fraction of the attention, and which the US is complicit in— “Iranian provocations” is pretty absurd.

But way to prove my point. ANY government of Iran which asserts its own position in the Middle East— dictatorship or democracy— is going to be declared “destabilizing”, especially as it comes at the expense of the House of Saud.
Click to expand...

Watch the interview with students at the University of Tehran, starting at 14:54. It gives a good snapshot of how everyday Iranians have no particular ill will toward the United States today.

 
ataraxia said:
Watch the interview with students at the University of Tehran, starting at 14:44. It gives a good snapshot of how everyday Iranians have no particular ill will toward the United States today.

Click to expand...


Again, the fact that every day Iranians don’t rage on about how much they hate Americans day in and day out doesn’t change the fact that assuming they’ll roll over for the Saudis if democracy comes around is nonsense....and unless they do that, the US will find an excuse to continue hostility towards Iran.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Again, the fact that every day Iranians don’t rage on about how much they hate Americans day in and day out doesn’t change the fact that assuming they’ll roll over for the Saudis if democracy comes around is nonsense....and unless they do that, the US will find an excuse to continue hostility towards Iran.
Click to expand...

But it's not that they are even 'not raging". They very plainly say in the interview that "people to people, we are friends".

The reason the Islamic Republic, the regime, is at war with everyone and their brother right now, from the Saudis and Israelis to the US, is because they have a Messianic vision of world conquest. I suspect most of the people, especially the younger ones who are almost completely secular now, have no such interest. That's not "rolling over for the Saudis". That's just people wanting to just be left alone to live and mind their own business.
 
ataraxia said:
But it's not that they are even 'not raging". They very plainly say in the interview that "people to people, we are friends".

The reason the Islamic Republic is at war with everyone and their brother, from the Saudis and Israelis to the US, is because they have a Messianic vision of world conquest. I suspect most of the people, especially the younger ones who are almost completely secular now, have no such interest. That's not "rolling over for the Saudis". That's just people wanting to just be left alone to live and mind their own business.
Click to expand...

And they won’t be, because they have far too many natural resources. There’s a reason Iran was invaded in both World War One and World War Two, despite being neutral.

Furthermore, given that Saudi Arabia is a brutal regime responsible for the mass slaughter in Yemen, Israel is actively engaged in settler colonialism and the US has its own laundry list of atrocities, claims that Iran wants to conquer the world are ridiculous.
 
Tigerace117 said:
And they won’t be, because they have far too many natural resources. There’s a reason Iran was invaded in both World War One and World War Two, despite being neutral.

Furthermore, given that Saudi Arabia is a brutal regime responsible for the mass slaughter in Yemen, Israel is actively engaged in settler colonialism and the US has its own laundry list of atrocities, claims that Iran wants to conquer the world are ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Underlying a lot of Iranian mullahs’ expansionist and foreign policy agendas is a messianic vision of conquering the world, and preparing it for the return of their Messiah, the Imam Mahdi- hiding in occultation and waiting for the end days and bring justice to the world.

Seriously. They really believe that stuff.

middleeasttransparent.com

Iran’s Messianic War - Middle East Transparent

Middle East Transparent Middle East Transparent, first liberal website of the Middle East - Middle East Transparent, premier site d'informations libéral du... - ﻦﻬﺟ ﺎﻟﺮﺌﻴﺳ ﺏﺎﻳﺪﻧ ﺎﻠﺣﺍﺰﻣ ﻦﺠﺣ ﻡﺆﻘﺗﺍً ﻒﻳ ﻢﻨﻋ ﺎﻟﺮﺌﻴﺳ ﺏﻮﺘﻴﻧ ﻢﻧ ﺖﻨﻔﻳﺫ ﻢﺨﻄﻃ... Iran’s Messianic War
middleeasttransparent.com middleeasttransparent.com

That’s why I think it’s a good thing that the young people of Iran are becoming more secular.
 
ataraxia said:
Underlying a lot of Iranian mullahs’ expansionist and foreign policy agendas is a messianic vision of conquering the world, and preparing it for the return of their Messiah, the Imam Mahdi- hiding in occultation and waiting for the end days and bring justice to the world.

Seriously. They really believe that stuff.

middleeasttransparent.com

Iran’s Messianic War - Middle East Transparent

Middle East Transparent Middle East Transparent, first liberal website of the Middle East - Middle East Transparent, premier site d'informations libéral du... - ﻦﻬﺟ ﺎﻟﺮﺌﻴﺳ ﺏﺎﻳﺪﻧ ﺎﻠﺣﺍﺰﻣ ﻦﺠﺣ ﻡﺆﻘﺗﺍً ﻒﻳ ﻢﻨﻋ ﺎﻟﺮﺌﻴﺳ ﺏﻮﺘﻴﻧ ﻢﻧ ﺖﻨﻔﻳﺫ ﻢﺨﻄﻃ... Iran’s Messianic War
middleeasttransparent.com middleeasttransparent.com

That’s why I think it’s a good thing that the young people of Iran are becoming more secular.
Click to expand...

That's what Americans claimed about the USSR as well.

'The commies are out to conquer the world! We have to sponsor all manner of vicious tyrants, because if we don't, the commies win!"
 
Roadvirus said:
Some people have turned "straw grasping" into a skill. It's really sad.
Click to expand...

Some people just can't bear to face historical facts.

Without the US destroying Iran's democracy, the current regime would not be in power. It's that simple.
 
Tigerace117 said:
That's what Americans claimed about the USSR as well.

'The commies are out to conquer the world! We have to sponsor all manner of vicious tyrants, because if we don't, the commies win!"
Click to expand...

Well, regardless, I don’t see how this makes any difference to what is happening now or what we all hope will happen. Right?
 
ataraxia said:
It’s no secret that the Islamic Republic of Iran is deeply unpopular in Iran, especially among the more educated and urban areas of the country (which are not insignificant). But some recent events, including overzealous enforcement of “morality” for a young woman accused of not covering her hair enough in public, are leading to an explosion of massive protests all over the country. And this time, it’s more than just limited to women, young people, or educated people. It seems to be across all sorts of demographics and social strata.

The protests are entering their 6th day now.

Of course, in the past, these protests have always been put down by massively brutal and deadly crackdowns by the regime. The government has already shut down the internet in the country. But this looks like it’s going to be as big as the “green movement” of 2009.

It’s interesting this is not being covered so much by western media. It might be the beginning of some big changes there. I guess we will see.

Click to expand...

 
Litwin said:
Click to expand...


Yes.We were talking about this earlier in the thread; It seems not only are Iranians (especially younger ones) getting sick of the Islamic Republic, they are getting sick of Islam and even religion itself.

nymag.com

Why Is Iran’s Secular Shift So Hard to Believe?

How two researchers got to the heart of a polling problem: the skewing effect of fear.
nymag.com nymag.com

theconversation.com

Iran's secular shift: new survey reveals huge changes in religious beliefs

A huge new online survey of Iranians reveals only 40% identify as Muslim.
theconversation.com theconversation.com
 
ataraxia said:
Yes.We were talking about this earlier in the thread; It seems not only are Iranians (especially younger ones) getting sick of the Islamic Republic, they are getting sick of Islam and even religion itself.

nymag.com

Why Is Iran’s Secular Shift So Hard to Believe?

How two researchers got to the heart of a polling problem: the skewing effect of fear.
nymag.com nymag.com

theconversation.com

Iran's secular shift: new survey reveals huge changes in religious beliefs

A huge new online survey of Iranians reveals only 40% identify as Muslim.
theconversation.com theconversation.com
Click to expand...
yes, Belarusians , Iranians do protests , Muscovites dont , why ?

i know the answer- they are natural slaves and love the wars

Fi6OLd6XEAg9Re6
 
Litwin said:
yes, Belarusians , Iranians do protests , Muscovites dont , why ?

i know the answer- they are natural slaves and love the wars

Fi6OLd6XEAg9Re6
Click to expand...

Oh look, more orientalist drivel straight out of 1800.
 
ataraxia said:
Yes.We were talking about this earlier in the thread; It seems not only are Iranians (especially younger ones) getting sick of the Islamic Republic, they are getting sick of Islam and even religion itself.

nymag.com

Why Is Iran’s Secular Shift So Hard to Believe?

How two researchers got to the heart of a polling problem: the skewing effect of fear.
nymag.com nymag.com

theconversation.com

Iran's secular shift: new survey reveals huge changes in religious beliefs

A huge new online survey of Iranians reveals only 40% identify as Muslim.
theconversation.com theconversation.com
Click to expand...
 
ataraxia said:
It’s no secret that the Islamic Republic of Iran is deeply unpopular in Iran, especially among the more educated and urban areas of the country (which are not insignificant). But some recent events, including overzealous enforcement of “morality” for a young woman accused of not covering her hair enough in public, are leading to an explosion of massive protests all over the country. And this time, it’s more than just limited to women, young people, or educated people. It seems to be across all sorts of demographics and social strata.

The protests are entering their 6th day now.

Of course, in the past, these protests have always been put down by massively brutal and deadly crackdowns by the regime. The government has already shut down the internet in the country. But this looks like it’s going to be as big as the “green movement” of 2009.

It’s interesting this is not being covered so much by western media. It might be the beginning of some big changes there. I guess we will see.

Click to expand...

Iran said to abolish morality police, and putin is losing the war.

which one goes down first ? Muscovy Iran
debatepolitics.com debatepolitics.com
 
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