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[W: #1063] 2024 Presidential Election night discussion

ModernDiogenes said:
That’s doesn’t mean I don’t respect we live in a society where other people’s choices count. I get, and accept, majority rules. So I’ll deal with it. I just wish those others were smarter about those choices. The DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE this wasn’t smart is right out there to be seen. It’s real. Measurable. The facts make the case.
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I actually like this statement. I don't agree with it, but I like your attitude.
I kind of think of it like you are on Spock's side and the Trump voters like Kirk. Everyone wants to be Kirk. Just remember that both men became like brothers despite their differences.
 
X Factor said:
Ughh, your condescending tone is irritating.
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Alt facts aren’t facts. Facts are facts.

Situational ethics aren’t ethics. Ethics are ethics.

Knowing what is readily there to be known for the simple attempt at the knowing about facts regarding character and ethics in the decision making regarding leaders is important. It’s civic duty. An honor to take part in and do it well. Knowing those facts indicate bad character and horrendous ethical values and not caring is situational ethics defined.

The secular philosophical values that are the fundamentals of right vs wrong are pillars, thus fundamental to our working representative republic, they aren’t optional. They are the basis of our social contract.

You can call me calling that out condescending. I’d call the attempt to do so deflection.
 
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Raven484 said:
I actually like this statement. I don't agree with it, but I like your attitude.
I kind of think of it like you are on Spock's side and the Trump voters like Kirk. Everyone wants to be Kirk. Just remember that both men became like brothers despite their differences.
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I don’t have a problem with you seeing it that way. I’d simply point out that while Kirk broke rules to achieve higher ends it was about higher ends. The reasons were always ethically sound, it may have broke the letter of the law not the spirit of it, things.
 
Schweddy said:
You missed the point entirely.
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I think not. It’s almost like the libertarian blinders work do well you can’t even comprehend that someone else’s actions, or lack of action, can profoundly affect you.
Schweddy said:
I dismiss nothing as far as I am aware. But what you do with your body in no way affects mine.
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It *absolutely* does!

Let me make you a tasty salad after I take a dump and don’t wash my hands if you believe that.
Schweddy said:
Um... you're welcome? Please prove that taking the vax caused less hospitalization with people who got the vax AND were hospitalized.
I'll help. You can't prove a negative.
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You apparently are focusing on COVID since it’s probably the only disease you know about, and you learned it the last three years.

There’s dozens of diseases prevented by vaccinations and the history goes back a few hundred years. I’ve been working in medicine for 30 years and am continually stunned by the incredible efficacy and safety of vaccines.

I have no idea what your badly worded challenge means, but I’m fairly sure you wouldn’t understand the data I show you anyway. But please clarify and ill pull the studies if I get the time.
Schweddy said:
No, but you should read up on the story of Polio. It will turn your stomach.
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Specifically?

Because I helped treat lots of patients with post-polio syndrome, and they ALL developed it before polio vaccines existed.
Schweddy said:
You're right, I'm not a doctor nor pretend to play one. It's only opinion.
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And especially bad, uninformed opinion.

The kind that kills people and makes them ill.

I’m not exaggerating- for a good example, look at Samoa.

en.m.wikipedia.org

2019 Samoa measles outbreak - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
It is difficult believing in Science here in the 15th century. So many of its ideas run counter to societal norms and popular thinking. Even if the Inquisition is not active at the moment, one just knows he is never safe if he espouses Science.
 
Schweddy said:
-2008: Obama gets 69 million
-2012: Obama gets 65 million
-2016: Hillary gets 65 million
-2020: Biden gets 81 MILLION
-2024: Harris gets 66 million

I still have faith that people can figure it out...
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Brack said:
Harris will end up with over 70 million votes after all of the ballots are counted.
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And Harris has surpassed over 70 million votes nationwide. Link
 
I was looking at the voting stats from 2020

These are the numbers:

2020
Biden 81M +
Trump 74M +

2024
Trump 73M +
Harris 68M +

14 million people did not vote (13D; 1R)
 
Credence said:
I was looking at the voting stats from 2020

These are the numbers:

2020
Biden 81M +
Trump 74M +

2024
Trump 73M +
Harris 68M +

14 million people did not vote (13D; 1R)
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They either didn't vote or they voted 3rd party or voted down ballot but not the presidential ticket. I suspect many of those who skipped this election, voted 3rd party, or whatever else they decided will regret it and will want to do something about it 4 years from now. There's no telling what damage will have been caused by then, though.
 
multivita-man said:
They either didn't vote or they voted 3rd party or voted down ballot but not the presidential ticket. I suspect many of those who skipped this election, voted 3rd party, or whatever else they decided will regret it and will want to do something about it 4 years from now. There's no telling what damage will have been caused by then, though.
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Or, they didn't exist to begin with and were muled in from mail in ballots and with zero way of find if they were real persons. It's overall election counts, not just Dems. It happened on both sides.
 
multivita-man said:
They either didn't vote or they voted 3rd party or voted down ballot but not the presidential ticket. I suspect many of those who skipped this election, voted 3rd party, or whatever else they decided will regret it and will want to do something about it 4 years from now. There's no telling what damage will have been caused by then, though.
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Couldn't agree more. Also IMO Elon Musk bought this election.

 
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Schweddy said:
Or, they didn't exist to begin with and were muled in from mail in ballots and with zero way of find if they were real persons. It's overall election counts, not just Dems. It happened on both sides.
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Or China and Russia hacked into the voting machines and changed the records.

Or any of the other crackpot theories that had their day in court but proved to have no actual validity.

That something could have happened doesn't mean that it did.
 
Credence said:
I was looking at the voting stats from 2020

These are the numbers:

2020
Biden 81M +
Trump 74M +

2024
Trump 73M +
Harris 68M +

14 million people did not vote (13D; 1R)
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Votes are still being counted until December 11, the safe harbor deadline, when all states have to submit their official election results to Congress for the Electoral College voting on December 17.

In fact, Trump is now at 74.3 million today and Harris at 70.4 million.

And about 10-11 million more votes are to be counted still.

Harris will receive ca. 4.5 million votes less than Biden in the end, Trump 4.5 million more than himself.
 
multivita-man said:
They either didn't vote or they voted 3rd party or voted down ballot but not the presidential ticket.
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I was one of the latter; as big of a catastrophe as the Democrats have been over the past four years, as a matter of principle I don't vote for thugs. We are in for a rough four years, you can't elect a president with Trump's character without suffering consequences ... but it won't be as rough as those four years would have been if Harris had won.
 
MSgt said:
Yes, they do.

They witnessed everything the rest of the world did throughout Trump's first four years. They saw the malicious undermining of economic growth, his constant display of immoral and embarrassing behavior, the social perversions on the domestic scene, and his ineptness in foreign affairs. They all witnessed his attempt to steal the election in 2019, in 2020, and his use of a mob to try to steal it in 2021. They have all seen the court cases that list out Trump's many offenses and the wealth of evidence stacked against him. They have all heard or read about how most of his former Cabinet warned America of who and what he is. And they have certainly heard every denigration towards the military, every derogatory term used to belittle people, and his gross behavior behind microphones. And there response to everything was "yes, please."

They know who they have built a cult of personality around. Some will say that Trump is simply a means to an end. But this is a lie. They overwhelming bowed before him in the Republican Primaries. They could have moved on and at least pretended that conservatism mattered to them again. But they didn't. Through Trump, they know they can channel as much far-right agenda into the mainstream as possible. They can ban and burn whatever they want. They can ensure that minorities and women know their place. They can freeze out immigration. They can push as much Christianity into public schools and government as possible. And when Trump's lawyers argue to their right-wing Supreme Court that Presidents should not have term limits, they will urge him on with enthusiasm. Oh, but tell them that the German conservatives of the 1930s played this same game with their own strongman and they will seize up in denial. You see, they are allowed to behave as depraved as they wish while supporting their neo-Nazi and white supremacist elements, but if you dare warn them, you are wrong. It's best to accept that Trump is America and raise that Trump flag and replace the Star Spangled Banner with the J6 Choir.

They know exactly who they elected. And, yes, he absolutely represents them. They are America anymore. There is no coming back from this.
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I am curious as to why you are so concerned about the imagined consequences of the US election. It seems your adopted country has its own issues to resolve:

"Germany’s fractious three party coalition government collapsed amid ongoing policy disputes, tipping the economically embattled country into a political crisis."

"Germany’s fractious coalition collapsed on Wednesday, tipping the economically embattled nation into a political crisis and adding uncertainty for Europe as the region grapples with Donald Trump’s election win in the U.S."

”Political fragmentation has made Europe increasingly hard to govern. Anti establishment forces have seen their share of the vote grow recently, but they have often failed to gather outright majorities, pushing centrists into alliances that have been hamstrung by their small political common ground. France is being ruled by a minority government after elections delivered a hung parliament."

https://www.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/aTx5CyGkibq06emQJoRv-WSJNewsPaper-11-7-2024.pdf

Fortunately the world's oldest Democratic Republic has a Constitution we can rely on to resolve the fake issues you seem concerned about.
 
OpportunityCost said:
I am talking specifically about DC. It's not my fault every time I say something you try to twist it in the stupidest way possible.

BTW, 2016, 2017 dates were a dead giveaway what I was referring to.
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DC? That was a peaceful protest, and Trump called out the National Guard to spray them with tear gas and swoop down on them with helicopters to create downdrafts on them to clear them from the streets, so he could cross the road to stand in front of church to hold the Bible for a photo opportunity
 
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