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Verdict Predictions

The verdict will be....


  • Total voters
    46
  • Poll closed .
I'm admittedly a little biased in that I don't believe the case for second degree murder was made or could ever be made and was a political decision, not one based on the law. But that said, I have to say that I found the glimpses I've had at the prosecutor's summation to be very off-putting and a little too strident and screamy - it felt like I was sitting in class and the teacher was really ticked at us because we didn't understand his stupid lesson plan.

I think the defense summation will be far less emotional, far less strident, very much matter of fact and to the law and the evidence and it will come across as reasoned and believable, because in large part it is. People generally navigate towards the sane, calm, reasoned people among leadership and away from the strident, overly emotional who are relying more on effect rather than fact.

Agreed. As I've said multiple times here on the threads, it's almost like we've entered the twilight zone and the prosecution and defense are juxtaposed. O'Mara's closing will be closer to proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Bernie's today. I was dumbfounded he inherently created MORE reasonable doubt with some of his attempted points. (ie: introduced the possibility there were two people yelling for help on the 911 call) Same thing happened during the prosecutions case. They presented witnesses and then later the prosecution themselves contradicted their OWN witnesses by introducing other possibilities.

Bizarre to say the least.
 
I'm surprised that at this time, with 25 people voting, there isn't a single person who's felt that the second degree murder charge has been proven and Zimmerman will be so convicted. There are many talking heads who've continuously spoken well about the prosecution and the prosecution case for second degree murder and some have even said they think he'll be convicted of such. And there have been many on DP, on these Zimmerman/Martin threads who've been adamant that Zimmerman is a murderer and will be convicted. Where did they all go?

Seems to me, we here on DP are the type of people who sit on juries and we see the problems with the prosecution's case and we don't believe it.
 
Though I believe Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defence , I have a feeling that since the Prosecution over-charged for murder 2 and the judge allowed the lesser charge of manslaughter, the jury will pick man-slaughter as a sort of compromise.

So I've picked Man-slaughter.

I think this is a travesty however, and the state should have to prove what they charged the defendant with rather than being granted manslaughter as a sort of consolation prize

Defending against Murder and manslaughter is different, and the defence team clearly has focused on defending against murder 2, if the charge was manslaughter they could devote resources and arguments to that charge.

Also, manslaughter in this case would result in a severe sentence due to the involvement of a firearm etc, which may be up to 20 years, I don't think the jury realizes this when they convict Zimmerman of a lesser charge in the hopes of compromising.

Nyd
 
Interesting. Sued for what?

Wrongful death most likely. I'd honestly be surprised if Martin's family didn't sue him.

I believe quite the contrary, I think GZ will sue a number of parties. I know I'd start with NBC. CNN would be right behind for disclosing his ss number.

Yeah, it could be he'll sue some people himself.
 
I cannot even imagine the brain of a person who could watch that whole trial and come out with guilty of 2nd degree murder.
 
Overview of Florida Voluntary Manslaughter Laws
Florida state laws establish the criminal offense of manslaughter when a homicide, the killing of a human being, does not meet the legal definition of murder. Manslaughter, unlike murder, does not require evidence of the defendant's premeditation or "depraved mind" with disregard for human life; instead, the state requires proof of either voluntary manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter.

Voluntary manslaughter describes a homicide intentionally committed while in the midst of a provocation. The prosecutor must show a sudden, unexpected event or circumstance serving as a provocation. As a result of the provocation, the defendant must have felt a temporary anger, heat of passion, or emotion that immediately resulted in an intent to kill or an intent to commit the act that resulted in the victim's death.

- See more at: Florida Voluntary Manslaughter Laws - FindLaw

I know many people feel the jury has kinda like a "buffet line" in choices for verdict. Sorry I just don't see how that's possible. First, murder 2 is simply out. That leaves self defense and manslaughter. Until I'm proven wrong, the burden in this case falls squarely on the prosecution to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt, it could NOT be self defense. The defense has claimed self defense, NOT as so many have erred, the SYG law. The jury cannot just go to manslaughter because they feel the state hasn't proved murder 2. There's a great big ole obstacle there, called self defense. In order to prove beyond a reasonable doubt GZ does NOT have self defense, they'd have to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt, he was NOT as a reasonable person fearing great bodily harm or death. I also realize many here keep saying his injuries were not *medically* significant. Well they weren't. That's not relevant. What IS relevant is, at the time of the shooting, did GZ reasonably fear great bodily harm or death. I believe John Goode's testimony is probably THE MOST PIVOTAL testimony in this entire trial. As far as I recollect he was the ONLY EYE WITNESS that went OUTSIDE and viewed the two as the physical altercation was happening. He testified TM was on top of GZ administering an "MMA style ground and pound". Unless the jury completely ignores this witness, it's unfathomable to me, how they can say GZ wouldn't reasonably fear great bodily harm. He already had a broken nose and his head (by PROSECUTION witness) had contacted cement three times.

If you recall today in BdlR's closing he hurriedly glossed over John Goode's testimony. That's a big hurdle for the state.

Given the totality of the testimony, GZ's version of the events stands up to rigorous legal examination. Regardless of the hallucinations of other possibilities, when GZ is under TM, on the receiving end of an "MMA style ground an pound", he's yelled for help but no one's coming, he has a broken nose, his head hit the concrete at least three times, I simply cannot fathom how a jury would believe HE didn't think he was going to suffer great bodily harm. I'd challenge ANYONE to allow us to put you in the same position, under the same circumstances, even without your attacker allegedly telling you "you're going to die", and you allow the situation to simply continue, I guess until you're attacker got tired or didn't feel like continuing, without fearing "great bodily harm".
 
More of that twisted logic. Isnt the idea of a trial Justice? If he really did commit manslaughter, that is what he should be found guilty of.
Though I believe Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defence , I have a feeling that since the Prosecution over-charged for murder 2 and the judge allowed the lesser charge of manslaughter, the jury will pick man-slaughter as a sort of compromise.

So I've picked Man-slaughter.

I think this is a travesty however, and the state should have to prove what they charged the defendant with rather than being granted manslaughter as a sort of consolation prize

Defending against Murder and manslaughter is different, and the defence team clearly has focused on defending against murder 2, if the charge was manslaughter they could devote resources and arguments to that charge.

Also, manslaughter in this case would result in a severe sentence due to the involvement of a firearm etc, which may be up to 20 years, I don't think the jury realizes this when they convict Zimmerman of a lesser charge in the hopes of compromising.

Nyd
 
That is my guess and he will get little to no jail time.

Do you know whether the judge is obligated to give him a minimum sentence? My second choice is hung jury ...
 
Do you know whether the judge is obligated to give him a minimum sentence? My second choice is hung jury ...

Yes but I do not know if the judge can suspend part or all of it. I know in my state, the appellate courts have never said they cannot so judges do it. So if the case were here with a 9 1/2 year min. like in FL the judge could impose it and then suspend it on whatever conditions the Court wanted to apply. It usually happens in serious cases when there is a lot of mitigation or the judge just doesn't think the person is a real danger to others. I've known it to happen in a DUI manslaughter case where it would have been a MM of at least 3.5 years I think but the victim's family asked the Court not to give the defendant driver any time. The judge gave him the max he could so that he could do work release which was like 4 or 6 months. I forget now. I am not in FL though.
 
I'm surprised that at this time, with 25 people voting, there isn't a single person who's felt that the second degree murder charge has been proven and Zimmerman will be so convicted. There are many talking heads who've continuously spoken well about the prosecution and the prosecution case for second degree murder and some have even said they think he'll be convicted of such. And there have been many on DP, on these Zimmerman/Martin threads who've been adamant that Zimmerman is a murderer and will be convicted. Where did they all go?

Seems to me, we here on DP are the type of people who sit on juries and we see the problems with the prosecution's case and we don't believe it.

Murder 2 was only charged because the prosecution hoped Zimmerman would plead rather than risk a trial. This tactic is sadly employed in all 50 states (more because of budgets then over zealous prosecutors). Especially because the jury can later be instructed of lesser charges.

Personally, from what I've observed and basing my opinion on WA law (I'm more familiar with) the prosecution has failed to meet their burden and any guilty verdict (with evidence given so far) would easily be over turned on appeal. I believe the jury will find him not guilty (unless the over sensationalist media has gotten to them).
 
I think they would easily win an appeal as well.
 
I have been switching back and forth between Fox and CNN. Fox is all in with Zimmeran. Does anyone still say Fox is fair and balanced? Or is that just too embarrassing? CNN seems to be trashing both.
 
I have been switching back and forth between Fox and CNN. Fox is all in with Zimmeran. Does anyone still say Fox is fair and balanced? Or is that just too embarrassing? CNN seems to be trashing both.

I'd say based on the votes on this thread, it's not surprising that many people come to the same conclusion.
 
I'd say based on the votes on this thread, it's not surprising that many people come to the same conclusion.

i personally think the verdict may surprise some of us, and at least cause one or both sides to become outraged.
 
i personally think the verdict may surprise some of us, and at least cause one or both sides to become outraged.

I would only be surprised by a 2nd degree murder conviction.
 
Which might just mean they did the right thing.
i personally think the verdict may surprise some of us, and at least cause one or both sides to become outraged.
 
I am aware, but I still think because he did not take the stand the jury will try to split the baby and find him guilty of the least thing possible. Anything could happen, but that is my guess only having seen bits and pieces of the trial.

This is not supposed be a popularity contest or a test of the common sense behind the SYG portion of Floriduh law, the jury has a really simple task; did GZ do to TM what the state alleged, commit murder in the second degree? If this was not proven to be murder 2 then GZ is not guilty, as charged.

Could GZ be a moron that made bad decisions? Yes, but he was not so charged. If the state of Floriduh wanted to try GZ on a lesser included offense, then they should have done so at the outset - not jack up the bail/bond and make a big media splash; simply charge him with what the actual evidence supported and let him decide whether to plead out or go to trial.

The nonsense of charging GZ with a major felony that required jury sequesatration and then begging these poor souls, on the jury, to find any possible fault in GZ's actions to be "what they really meant" is insane. Either GZ is guilty as charged or he is not.
 
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This is not supposed be a popularity contest or a test of the common sense behind the SYG portion of Floriduh law, the jury has a relly simple task; did GZ do to TM what the state alleged, commit murder in the second degree? If this was not murder 2, then GZ is not guilty, as charged. Could GZ be a moron? Yes, but he was not so charged If the state of Floriduh wanted to try GZ on a lesser included offense, then they should have done so - not jack up the bail.bond and make a big media splash, simply charge him with what the actual evidence supported and let him decide whethe rto plead out or go to trial. The nonsense of charging GZ with a major felony that required jury sequesatration and then begging these poor souls, on the jury, to find any possible fault in GZ's actions to be "what they really meant" is insane. Either GZ is guilty as charged or he is not.

And yet that is not how the law works, neither in this case nor in a multitude of cases everyday that do not get live CNN coverage.
 
Manslaughter, or murder 2. It's already been decided that Zimmerman is going down. The judge is under so much pressure, that she violated his rights today.
 
If Zimmerman is acquitted, I'm predicting that Obama will give the go for Eric Holder to arrest Zimmerman and charge him for violating Martins civil rights.

Double Jeopardy is a thing of the past.

Once the federal government realized that they could ignore that part of the Constitution about double jeopardy, they can ignore any part of the Constitution.
 
Well I'd have to chime in with the liberals favorite mantra: "Bush Did It" only they'd be talking about Bush Sr. for what his DOJ did to the officers after they were aquitted in the Rodney King beating.

If Zimmerman is acquitted, I'm predicting that Obama will give the go for Eric Holder to arrest Zimmerman and charge him for violating Martins civil rights.

Double Jeopardy is a thing of the past.

Once the federal government realized that they could ignore that part of the Constitution about double jeopardy, they can ignore any part of the Constitution.
 
I'd say based on the votes on this thread, it's not surprising that many people come to the same conclusion.

I wouldn't say this is an unbiased bunch. Sides are drawn here as np much as anywhere. That clouds perception. I've notice the more sure a group is here, the more often the verdict is the opposite. Not 100% mind you, but that's the trend.
 
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