Female circumcision and male circumcision are equally horrible. I don't see why it's okay to mutilate a baby boy's genitals by removing delicate, highly innervated foreskin, yet it's the end of the world when a woman's clitoris is attacked. Both practices originate with ensuring chastity and discouraging masturbation as well as sexual gratification.
Well one is clearly much more painful than the other they are not the same at all really.Its the same difference as being stab in the gut rather than the toe.
Vader said:Not true.
There are medical reasons for circumcision.
Some of the medical reasons parents choose circumcision are to protect against infections of the urinary tract and the foreskin, prevent cancer, lower the risk of getting sexually transmitted diseases, and prevent phimosis (a tightening of the foreskin that may close the opening of the penis).
I'm sorry but are you equivocating the cutting off of foreskin without anesthesia to damaging the clitoris? Last time I checked both are excruciatingly painful and result in permanent damage to the genitalia.
You don't have to quote FAQ websites to me. I'm a doctor and fully aware of the medical reasons for circumcision, many of which are valid; however, aesthetic circumcision is wrong and so is religious circumcision. If we are fighting against the culture of female circumcision then we should be equally outraged that it is also happening to boys. The procedures may be different but the results are the same: permanent damage to the genitalia, loss of sensation, loss of natural function, and it is done against the will of the patient.
Religion has made male circumcision acceptable. If it weren't for that, we would all be against the unnatural practice of it. Just because it is culturally in vogue does not mean I have to be okay with it.
I am also in the medical field in both the United States and Israel. Male circumcision is typically performed between birth and 2 months of age. Currently, around 75% of all American males undergo this minor surgical procedure. Almost 100% of all male Jewish Israelis are circumcised. There are numerous hygienic benefits to male circumcision. Although the possibility exists of elevated urinary tract infections, I have never encountered a circumcised male who complained of a loss of penile sensation/function due to circumcision.You don't have to quote FAQ websites to me. I'm a doctor and fully aware of the medical reasons for circumcision, many of which are valid; however, aesthetic circumcision is wrong and so is religious circumcision. If we are fighting against the culture of female circumcision then we should be equally outraged that it is also happening to boys. The procedures may be different but the results are the same: permanent damage to the genitalia, loss of sensation, loss of natural function, and it is done against the will of the patient.
I am also in the medical field in both the United States and Israel. Male circumcision is typically performed between birth and 2 months of age. Currently, around 75% of all American males undergo this minor surgical procedure. Almost 100% of all male Jewish Israelis are circumcised. There are numerous hygienic benefits to male circumcision. Although the possibility exists of elevated urinary tract infections, I have never encountered a circumcised male who complained of a loss of penile sensation/function due to circumcision.
Female Genital Cutting (FGC) was outlawed in the United States in 1996. Most FGC in the world occurs when the female "comes of age" (12-16). There are escalating degrees of FGC... 1) a simple ritual nick, 2) the removal of the entire clitoris, 3) the cutting away of the labia and 4) in extreme cases the entire genital area is carved away and the vulva is stitched shut. 2/3/4 are major invasive procedures that are extremely painful and potentially dangerous. Many young girls die from post-FGC complications such as infections or bleeding to death. The sole purpose here is to remove sexual sensation/pleasure and foster virginity.
I am also in the medical field in both the United States and Israel. Male circumcision is typically performed between birth and 2 months of age. Currently, around 75% of all American males undergo this minor surgical procedure. Almost 100% of all male Jewish Israelis are circumcised. There are numerous hygienic benefits to male circumcision. Although the possibility exists of elevated urinary tract infections, I have never encountered a circumcised male who complained of a loss of penile sensation/function due to circumcision.
Female Genital Cutting (FGC) was outlawed in the United States in 1996. Most FGC in the world occurs when the female "comes of age" (12-16). There are escalating degrees of FGC... 1) a simple ritual nick, 2) the removal of the entire clitoris, 3) the cutting away of the labia and 4) in extreme cases the entire genital area is carved away and the vulva is stitched shut. 2/3/4 are major invasive procedures that are extremely painful and potentially dangerous. Many young girls die from post-FGC complications such as infections or bleeding to death. The sole purpose here is to remove sexual sensation/pleasure and foster virginity.
The AMA has suggested a test pilot program to allow ritual "nicking". Critics point out that certain ethnicities will continue to send their daughters abroad for more invasive FGC proceedures. A New York politician has suggested making this a criminal offense, but detection/enforcement would be virtually impossible.Certainly this extreme practice should be stopped; as a compromise, perhaps we should encourage them to practice the less extreme form of FGM as an alternative. It seems a little hypocritical of us to criminalize minor FGM procedures, when our culture condones and abets the circumcision of males via a procedure that is a near-exact correlation.
The AMA has suggested a test pilot program to allow ritual "nicking". Critics point out that certain ethnicities will continue to send their daughters abroad for more invasive FGC proceedures. A New York politician has suggested making this a criminal offense, but detection/enforcement would be virtually impossible.
I am also in the medical field in both the United States and Israel. Male circumcision is typically performed between birth and 2 months of age. Currently, around 75% of all American males undergo this minor surgical procedure. Almost 100% of all male Jewish Israelis are circumcised. There are numerous hygienic benefits to male circumcision. Although the possibility exists of elevated urinary tract infections, I have never encountered a circumcised male who complained of a loss of penile sensation/function due to circumcision.
Female Genital Cutting (FGC) was outlawed in the United States in 1996. Most FGC in the world occurs when the female "comes of age" (12-16). There are escalating degrees of FGC... 1) a simple ritual nick, 2) the removal of the entire clitoris, 3) the cutting away of the labia and 4) in extreme cases the entire genital area is carved away and the vulva is stitched shut. 2/3/4 are major invasive procedures that are extremely painful and potentially dangerous. Many young girls die from post-FGC complications such as infections or bleeding to death. The sole purpose here is to remove sexual sensation/pleasure and foster virginity.
It shows how people are coming to understand, how moves are there educating which appears to be the most important thing.
Contrary to the comments of some this is not done by people who do not care for their children but by Mother's who wrongly believe they are helping them.
The one question in the UK seems to be why have there been no prosecutions. This seems to be the police taking a more education is better and we do not want the community to feel victimised to the other point of view that if their are no prosecutions, people will see they can carry on
I agree, education is the only way to prevent this.
People must understand that this is practice that has been in their culture for centuries, generations - I'm not excusing it but it is done with misunderstanding. They do not see something wrong with it because they had it done themselves, as did their Mothers and so on. No daughter would be willing to actively help the police prosecute their own family making convictions unlikely, there is a wall of silence that is raised when it comes to this issue in some communities.
education is important, agreeably; but that is no reason to throw civilization overboard until such time as these people deign to stop mutilating their young girls. that's like trying to stop child rape by explaining to the rapists that it's not nice.
Throwing people in jail will not stop this, explaining to the parents that what they are doing is damaging and is not necessary will.
I don't understand how people expect those who do it to know it is wrong without explaining why it is wrong.
wrong. these people believe in this; and they certainly don't accept you or the british state as an authority capable of correcting their culture or belief system, any more than you would accept them explaining to you how you are a whore for not being cut up.
Male circumcision is definitely an ancient rite. In Judaism, it's overarching purpose was to mark the covenant between God and the Israelites. Judaic male circumcision and the female ritual bath were also considered to be components of Jewish theology regarding what is pure and what is impure.Orion said:I am aware of the distinctions between the two procedures and the obvious differences in severity, but the historical reasons for male circumcision have never been hygiene. Rather they have been for religious reasons, such as demonstrating one's convenant with God.
Using this rationale, you should also oppose earrings, naval studs, etc.Orion said:Catholics, Jews, and Muslims all practice circumcision and that makes up a huge portion of the world's population; naturally circumcision will make its way into acceptable policy, but I don't feel that it is necessary in cases where there are no abnormalities in the foreskin. Saying that it's cleaner is a cop out from teaching proper hygiene. If a baby is born with a natural body part, that part should remain. I am aware of all the rationales for doing it but I don't agree with them. Even the reasons of HIV/AIDS prevention is hard to believe, given that the risk reduction is not that great.
Agreed.Orion said:As for FGC, I can think of no real reason to allow it other than to control a woman's sexuality.
This quackish intention was true 200 years ago...Orion said:But then, that is what male circumcision was intended for too... to prevent masturbation.
History of male circumcision - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaNon-religious circumcision in English-speaking countries arose in a climate of negative attitudes towards sex, especially concerning masturbation. In her 1978 article The Ritual of Circumcision,[8] Karen Erickson Paige writes: "In the United States, the current medical rationale for circumcision developed after the operation was in wide practice. The original reason for the surgical removal of the foreskin, or prepuce, was to control 'masturbatory insanity' - the range of mental disorders that people believed were caused by the 'polluting' practice of 'self-abuse.'"
"Self-abuse" was a term commonly used to describe masturbation in the 19th century. According to Paige, "treatments ranged from diet, moral exhortations, hydrotherapy, and marriage, to such drastic measures as surgery, physical restraints, frights, and punishment. Some doctors recommended covering the penis with plaster of Paris, leather, or rubber; cauterization; making boys wear chastity belts or spiked rings; and in extreme cases, castration." Paige details how circumcision became popular as a masturbation remedy: "In the 1890s, it became a popular technique to prevent, or cure, masturbatory insanity. In 1891 the president of the Royal College of Surgeons of England published On Circumcision as Preventive of Masturbation, and two years later another British doctor wrote Circumcision: Its Advantages and How to Perform It, which listed the reasons for removing the 'vestigial' prepuce. Evidently the foreskin could cause 'nocturnal incontinence,' hysteria, epilepsy, and irritation that might 'give rise to erotic stimulation and, consequently, masturbation.' Another physician, P.C. Remondino, added that 'circumcision is like a substantial and well-secured life annuity...it insures better health, greater capacity for labor, longer life, less nervousness, sickness, loss of time, and less doctor bills.' No wonder it became a popular remedy."[24]
Knucklehead :roflJeez. I thought I was still logged in and posted under my sisters name :3oops:
I am aware of the distinctions between the two procedures and the obvious differences in severity,
I agree, education is the only way to prevent this.
People must understand that this is practice that has been in their culture for centuries, generations - I'm not excusing it but it is done with misunderstanding. They do not see something wrong with it because they had it done themselves, as did their Mothers and so on. No daughter would be willing to actively help the police prosecute their own family making convictions unlikely, there is a wall of silence that is raised when it comes to this issue in some communities.
"Sometimes it might be as simple as delivering the message of what the legal position is; sometimes we even give them an official letter, a document that they can show to the extended family that states quite firmly what will happen if the procedure goes ahead. The focus has to be on prevention."
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