U.N. Small Arms Treaty (new edition)

[Rich2018]

What part of caping capacity at 25 did you not understand.

The practicalities.

I would grandfather them in for use on private land. Start with fines and temporary loss of gun rights on first offense then progressively become more severe for repeat offenders. Using one in a crime would carry an additional penalty.

Would that be an infringement of the 2A ?
And if you think that would work, why wouldn't a complete ban work...by initially just restricting the bearing of arms to private land and then imposing progressively severe penalties as you start banning guns period ?

Criminals break laws it’s kind of their thing.

So, so much for your plan huh ?
You admit it would only affect the "law abiding citizens" ?

Slow down there junior. We are not talking about disarming people. Please try to stay on track and not jump goal posts as you typically do.

Why not ?
Why would you plan work for magazine sizes but not for actual weapons ?

I didn’t ask what you would do because I don’t care what you would do.

Yet you're the first to offer criticisms, like:

...it goes against his stupid ban all guns but don’t ban all guns nonsense ...

Sounds like you care more than a little there doesn't it
So which way will you flip-flop now ?

No I am calling your arguments stupid because they are and other posters from all sides of the political spectrum have also pointed that out. Don’t lump others common sense solutions in with your claptrap.

Yet you cannot say why
And you cannot suggest any way to ban guns that is not, in your mind, "stupid"

Japan and the UK have strict gun controls
Australia and Canada have banned certain guns too
Are all those countries "stupid"
If so, where in your mind have they gone wrong ?
If not, where have they got their gun control right ?

 

[Rucker61]

From 30 to 25 would not require a lot of tooling change at all.

Sure it does. Ever work with a plastics manufacturer?

50 is too many because I’m not a complete idiot that can’t hit their target. You don’t need 50 rounds you need more practice.

This same logic could be applied by a gun control advocate to any number you suggest.

25 still allows for a lot of lead to go down range in a short amount of time to discourage multiple attackers from advancing

This same logic could be applied by a gun control advocate to any number you suggest.

 

[Chillfolks]

Sure it does. Ever work with a plastics manufacturer?

This same logic could be applied by a gun control advocate to any number you suggest.

This same logic could be applied by a gun control advocate to any number you suggest.

Plastics isn’t really my bag but did a little work with them. A quarter inch plug isn’t that hard to manufacture

It’s an arbitrary number and you are a fool to think some sort of limit will not be pushed down our throat. Anyone not supporting 25 should be bitch slapped for whining about 10 when that’s the standard

 

[Rucker61]

Plastics isn’t really my bag but did a little work with them. A quarter inch plug isn’t that hard to manufacture

It's more than that. See the 5 round limiter makes for 30 round magazines. Compare the number of 30 round magazines Magpul makes each year to the number of limiters they might sell. If they don't want to change the 30 round tooling they'll need to massively increase the number of tools to match the outputs of the two parts. Then added steps to sonically weld the limit inside the magazine body to prevent the removal of the limiter, and then you have a magazine you can't take apart to clean.

It’s an arbitrary number and you are a fool to think some sort of limit will not be pushed down our throat. Anyone not supporting 25 should be bitch slapped for whining about 10 when that’s the standard

I think it would be foolish to think that if the Democrats ever have the power to force an arbitrary limit on the country that they would stop at 25. They already have ten in their mind, and we've seen efforts from state level Democrats that introduced restrictions of 7 and 5 for magazines.

Anyone supporting 25 should slap themselves back to reality.

 

[Rich2018]

Plastics isn’t really my bag but did a little work with them. A quarter inch plug isn’t that hard to manufacture

It’s an arbitrary number and you are a fool to think some sort of limit will not be pushed down our throat. Anyone not supporting 25 should be bitch slapped for whining about 10 when that’s the standard

And it's even easier to take out.

 

[Fledermaus]

And it's even easier to take out.

By design.

 

[Chillfolks]

It's more than that. See the 5 round limiter makes for 30 round magazines. Compare the number of 30 round magazines Magpul makes each year to the number of limiters they might sell. If they don't want to change the 30 round tooling they'll need to massively increase the number of tools to match the outputs of the two parts. Then added steps to sonically weld the limit inside the magazine body to prevent the removal of the limiter, and then you have a magazine you can't take apart to clean.

Retooling for 25 is much easier than 10.

I think it would be foolish to think that if the Democrats ever have the power to force an arbitrary limit on the country that they would stop at 25. They already have ten in their mind, and we've seen efforts from state level Democrats that introduced restrictions of 7 and 5 for magazines.

Anyone supporting 25 should slap themselves back to reality.

Ultimately it would be great if no limit was the rule but the reality is it is coming. Don’t whine when you get less than 25 because you were unwilling to compromise

 

[Chillfolks]

And it's even easier to take out.

Hold on, You one one hand claim people don’t have the proper tools and equipment to do gunsmith work in their home shops but now suddenly those same people who couldn’t do the work previously are skilled gunsmiths who can easily modify parts for the sake of this particular argument.

Damn Rich have you ever found an argument your not on both sides of?

 

[Rucker61]

Retooling for 25 is much easier than 10.

Pretty much everyone already make 10 round magazines for the California market.

Ultimately it would be great if no limit was the rule but the reality is it is coming. Don’t whine when you get less than 25 because you were unwilling to compromise

The Democrats will never, ever compromise on 25. They already know deep in their blessed hearts that 10 is the answer (if not 7 or even 5). If the Democrats ever have the votes to restrict the capacity of a magazine at the federal level, they're going right to ten. Every bill in Congress limiting magazine capacity uses "ten" as the magic number.

Do you think that the states of California and New York would accept raising their ten round limit to twenty-five?

 

[Rich2018]

Hold on, You one one hand claim people don’t have the proper tools and equipment to do gunsmith work in their home shops but now suddenly those same people who couldn’t do the work previously are skilled gunsmiths who can easily modify parts for the sake of this particular argument.

Damn Rich have you ever found an argument your not on both sides of?

Most people don't

But if the argument for 3D printing and machine shops is supposed to undermine a gun ban, why wouldn't it undermine your bat-sh1t crazy plan ?

 

[VanceMack]

A common sense solution to the magazine controversy. It allows for enough rounds for pest control, loud bang fun to waste money times and prevent a group of limey twits from trying to take your guns or impose their will. It allows the left to pat themselves on the back for doing something/anything about gun violence. It allows the right to point at how they protected everyone from the 5 round limits some are calling for. A rare compromise

Compromise of values and rights is ALWAYS bad.

The magazine capacity argument is garbage. MOST mass shootings were committed with pistols, not rifles or shotguns. MOST involved standard capacity magazines. Two of the most prolific school shooters...Cho at VA Tech and Cruz and Stoneman Douglas...used standard capacity magazines.

The 2nd Amendment is not negotiable, and the people looking to restrict freedoms are not seeking accommodation as a solution...merely as the next step.

 

[Chillfolks]

Most people don't

But if the argument for 3D printing and machine shops is supposed to undermine a gun ban, why wouldn't it undermine your bat-sh1t crazy plan ?

Your jumping back and forth is out of control. Are you now back to most people don’t have the skills and ability to do gunsmith work? This in opposition to the claim you made yesterday that they do have those skills to easily do it. But of course that was the opposite of your previous position that it’s too hard to do gunsmith work at home. Before we go any further let’s try and get you to pick a side in this debate.

So what is it Rich. Does the average person have the skills, knowledge, and tooling to do gunsmith work in their backyard shops or does it take specialized training and expensive machinery making it out of reach for the average person?

 

[Chillfolks]

Compromise of values and rights is ALWAYS bad.

The magazine capacity argument is garbage. MOST mass shootings were committed with pistols, not rifles or shotguns. MOST involved standard capacity magazines. Two of the most prolific school shooters...Cho at VA Tech and Cruz and Stoneman Douglas...used standard capacity magazines.

The 2nd Amendment is not negotiable, and the people looking to restrict freedoms are not seeking commendation as a solution...merely as the next step.

It’s a nice Rah Rah bumper sticker statement to say the 2nd Amendment is not negotiable. To test that theory and your devotion to it may I suggest tucking a pistol, no need for hand cannon a little .22 or .25 will be enough, into a pocket and walk into the airport to board a plane, or take a tour of the “Peoples House” in DC, or go visit a stranger in a jail to brighten their day and report back on the results of how you will not negotiate away any of your rights under the 2nd.

 

[Rucker61]

It’s a nice Rah Rah bumper sticker statement to say the 2nd Amendment is not negotiable. To test that theory and your devotion to it may I suggest tucking a pistol, no need for hand cannon a little .22 or .25 will be enough, into a pocket and walk into the airport to board a plane, or take a tour of the “Peoples House” in DC, or go visit a stranger in a jail to brighten their day and report back on the results of how you will not negotiate away any of your rights under the 2nd.

Those infringements weren't negotiated. They were imposed by a Democratic majority who had the power to do anything they wanted.

The gun control advocates have already told us what they want. If they have the power to take it, they aren't going to compromise. Why should they? Do you think that if someone shoots up a school with a couple of 25 round magazines they won't be coming back for further capacity restrictions.

 

[Rich2018]

Your jumping back and forth is out of control. Are you now back to most people don’t have the skills and ability to do gunsmith work? This in opposition to the claim you made yesterday that they do have those skills to easily do it. But of course that was the opposite of your previous position that it’s too hard to do gunsmith work at home. Before we go any further let’s try and get you to pick a side in this debate.

So what is it Rich. Does the average person have the skills, knowledge, and tooling to do gunsmith work in their backyard shops or does it take specialized training and expensive machinery making it out of reach for the average person?

*You are

I'm just using the gun owners argument against you

You can't have it both ways:

Does 3D printing undermine gun bans or not ?

 

[Fledermaus]

*You are

I'm just using the gun owners argument against you

You can't have it both ways:

Does 3D printing undermine gun bans or not ?

Average home tinkerer.....

Can they make/modify guns?

 

[Chillfolks]

*You are

I'm just using the gun owners argument against you

You can't have it both ways:

Does 3D printing undermine gun bans or not ?

Once you nail down your position we can move forward but you have contradicted yourself in this thread in under 24 hours. There is at least one other person trying to get you to clarify what your position is on the average person and their knowledge and ease concerning gunsmith work. Clarify that and we can then move on and discuss 3 printing options

 

[Rich2018]

Once you nail down your position we can move forward but you have contradicted yourself in this thread in under 24 hours. There is at least one other person trying to get you to clarify what your position is on the average person and their knowledge and ease concerning gunsmith work. Clarify that and we can then move on and discuss 3 printing options

I thought I had
Sorry it went over your head.

 

[Fledermaus]

I thought I had
Sorry it went over your head.

Post number?

 

[Chillfolks]

I thought I had
Sorry it went over your head.

Nothing went over my head you have said contradictory statements in less that 24 hours. The only point ypu made is you have no principles you stand by. Your “thought I had“ is a lame attempt to avoid any clarification and only proves inability to stand by your statements.

 

[Rich2018]

Nothing went over my head you have said contradictory statements in less that 24 hours. The only point ypu made is you have no principles you stand by. Your “thought I had“ is a lame attempt to avoid any clarification and only proves inability to stand by your statements.

Clearly it did.

 

[Fledermaus]

Nothing went over my head you have said contradictory statements in less that 24 hours. The only point ypu made is you have no principles you stand by. Your “thought I had“ is a lame attempt to avoid any clarification and only proves inability to stand by your statements.

I showed him dozens of examples of hand made firearms while he insisted only an ordnance factory could manufacture firearms.

It went on for dozens of posts.

 

[Fledermaus]

Clearly it did.

Clearly you can't provide the post number.

 

[TurtleDude]

From 30 to 25 would not require a lot of tooling change at all.

50 is too many because I’m not a complete idiot that can’t hit their target. You don’t need 50 rounds you need more practice. 25 still allows for a lot of lead to go down range in a short amount of time to discourage multiple attackers from advancing

if you give the government the power to ban 50 round magazines, you give it the power ban 11 round magazines

 

[Chillfolks]

Clearly it did.

No this is your usual avoidance tactic you do it when you’re backed into a corner on an argument and can’t figure out how to move forward or get yourself out of it. It’s like clockwork

1. Refuse to answer questions
2. The claim they were answered,
3. keep asking different goal post moving questions
4. accuse others of refusing to answer your questions,
5. declare yourself the victor,
6. spam thread with washing machine questions.
7. Do all you can to get the last post in on the thread no matter how irrelevant
8. Rinse wash repeat
We are at step 2 soon to move into step 3. If you try hard you can probably get to 4 maybe even 5 by bed time. Then enjoy 6 7 for the rest of the week and #8 start fresh in a new thread Monday