U.K. Supreme Court Rules Trans Women Can’t Be Defined as Women

[Helix]

Cool. If you don't care about convincing the other 80% of the public and are content to just insult them, then we agree. I am happy that radical trans activists are finally accepting defeat, even if they want to sullenly mope about it for a while.

I don't. I hope that they marinate themselves in stupid fury.

 

[NatMorton]

The next ruling conservatives hope for: Top Court rules that trans people are not people.

After all, what is conservatism if you don't have groups of extremely vulnerable people to abuse?

After all, why work to make a rational argument when a thin-end-of-the-wedge fallacy requires no real effort?

 

[NatMorton]

Rather than post garbage like that, why not use your supposed legal skills and tell us where the UK Supreme Court got this wrong.


*crickets*

Oh, great. You’ve likely scared him off now.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

The whole reason was because trans people needed a safe space to begin with and they were using the bathroom of their gender without much issue until TERFs came along. so im not sure i buy the mote and bailey argument about safe spaces.

I think you are viewing this UK ruling from the point of view of American culture wars.

Safe spaces for trans people are not being taken away. I could type all sorts out and not be clear but this equality guide makes the points clear with examples. This isn't changing after today's ruling.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/equality/equality-act-2010/separate-and-single-sex-service-providers-guide-equality-act-sex-and

Like what is even the point then of recognizing trans women then? The entire ruling negates any recognition of trans women and only gives a kind of useless consolation? Im confused about how this isnt erasure but its not the worst thing in the world thanks.

Trans women and trans men are still recognised, but what will now happen is all bodies concerned will have to work out what this means for them. One law teacher explained "the ruling means a transgender women with a GRC who was excluded from a single-sex space would be unable to argue she is being discriminated against as a woman." and this came from recent cases such as where a transgender rapist was put into a female prison.
Basically the guide I linked above tries to cover a range of scenarios - it's not simple black and white because we are not simple binary creatures.

Like ok we’re going to let you do what you want but we’re still going to call you a liar at every opportunity when you are trying to go to the bathroom

Not here in the UK.

 

[NatMorton]

I've never ecountered enough trans women to get all bothered about them.

I'm far more concerned about Trump tanking the stock markets, and ignoring the legal safeguard of due process while "disappearing" people in El Salvador.

Quick, make it about Trump!

 

[NatMorton]

Everyone needs a hobby.

Like playing dress up?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

I did see the king talk about Ramadan.

Islam is very very very anti LGBT. If you import it into your country your country will become Anti LGBT. You can deny this you can pretend it's fake but I know better.

Cut it out. This bollocks is irrelevant.

Islam is very very very anti LGBT.

And yet I met and worked with openly LGBTQ people in muslim countries, in areas where strict muslim law applies.

Please stop posting bollocks about stuff you know nothing about.

 

[NatMorton]

I did read it. I don't enjoy reading fiction.

How do you feel about living it?

 

[maxparrish]

Europe was faster than us getting into this mess, and it never became as much of a culture-war-fervor item (where people feel the need to defend it absolutely because The Bad People Oppose It), so, they are a bit faster than us, it seems, in getting out of it.

Another important - and unanimous! - step in that journey:

U.K. Supreme Court Rules Trans Women Can’t Be Defined as Women

Britain’s top court ruled only those born female can be considered women, a landmark judgment that excludes transgender women from the legal definition and paves the way for tighter limits on female-only spaces and services. ...​

​

“The unanimous decision of this court is that the terms ‘woman’ and ‘sex’ in the Equality Act 2010 refer to biological women and biological sex,” said the court’s deputy president, Lord Hodge....​

​

In the 88-page ruling, the judges said the concept of sex was binary, referring to either a woman or a man, and that they hoped the ruling would give clarity to the law while protecting both women and transgender people.​

​

“The ordinary meaning of those plain and unambiguous words corresponds with the biological characteristics that make an individual a man or a woman,” the ruling read.​

​

“These are assumed to be self-explanatory and to require no further explanation.”​

From my brief reading (it was 88 pages long in judgement) it appears it will not have a huge effect on protecting those because of their "perceived sex", but it will insure some basic privacy and other rights.

The opinion was very reasonable, but very clear and sensible. From the opinion:

"...taxonomy itself can generate controversy. We are content to draw on the terminology used by the Scottish Ministers in their written case for the purposes of this judgment and have adopted the following terms. A person who is a biological man, ie who was at birth of the male sex, but who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment is described as a “trans woman”. Similarly, a person who is a biological woman, ie who was at birth of the female sex, but who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment is described as a “trans man”. We describe trans women and trans men who have obtained a gender recognition certificate (“GRC”) under the GRA 2004 as “trans women with a GRC” and “trans men with a GRC” respectively and their gender resulting from the GRC as their “acquired gender” or “acquired sex”. 7. We also use the expression “biological sex” which is used widely, including in the judgments of the Court of Session, to describe the sex of a person at birth, and we use the expression “certificated sex” to describe the sex attained by the acquisition of a GRC."

Bye the way, a certificate to confirm trans gender sounds like might be a good idea, a way of distinguishing women from the behavioral personae.

 

[bomberfox]

I think you are viewing this UK ruling from the point of view of American culture wars.

Safe spaces for trans people are not being taken away. I could type all sorts out and not be clear but this equality guide makes the points clear with examples. This isn't changing after today's ruling.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/equality/equality-act-2010/separate-and-single-sex-service-providers-guide-equality-act-sex-and

Trans women and trans men are still recognised, but what will now happen is all bodies concerned will have to work out what this means for them. One law teacher explained "the ruling means a transgender women with a GRC who was excluded from a single-sex space would be unable to argue she is being discriminated against as a woman." and this came from recent cases such as where a transgender rapist was put into a female prison.
Basically the guide I linked above tries to cover a range of scenarios - it's not simple black and white because we are not simple binary creatures.



Not here in the UK.

I actually thought of the UK as being worse than America in this regard because America sort of takes the whole women’s bathroom as something thats just always been the case instead of a women’s sex based right.

Secondly the reason trans women prisoners were moved to women’s prisons was because of prison rape culture and v-coding where trans women would be fed to the most violent prisoners in men’s prisons to satiate them, aka rape.

 

[CLAX1911]

Cut it out. This bollocks is irrelevant.

Perhaps in this one issue. But as you bring these people in and you'll see rollbacks and women's rights and I'm LGBT rights.

And yet I met and worked with openly LGBTQ people in muslim countries, in areas where strict muslim law applies.

And I work with pro LGBT people on Mars.

Please stop posting bollocks about stuff you know nothing about.

Stop lying about openly LGBT people in Muslim countries.

This may be the world you want to exist but it's not the one that does.

 

[j brown's body]

Never has so few generated so much fear and repression.

I used to marvel at the fact that Jews made up less than 2% of the German population when Hitler came for them.

This has got it beat by a country mile.

 

[Lisa]

How do you feel about living it?

The First Amendment has two clauses that says that I cannot be forced to obey the myths of someone else.

 

[CLAX1911]

The First Amendment has two clauses that says that I cannot be forced to obey the myths of someone else.

That's a two-way street. In the same instance I don't have to obey the myth that gender identity determines whether or not a person is a woman.

 

[Lisa]

Like playing dress up?

Would that be in a sheet or in Hugo Boss designed uniforms?

Hugo Boss and the Nazis

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

That's a two-way street. In the same instance I don't have to obey the myth that gender identity determines whether or not a person is a woman.

Medical science doesn't deal in myths.

Learn more about what it means to be transgender or gender diverse

Know the basics about sex and gender, including common terms and definitions.

www.mayoclinic.org

Imaginary friends are for priests, minsters, rabbis, and Imams.

 

[Gatsby]

I don't. I hope that they marinate themselves in stupid fury.

Well, one of the two of us is doing that.
You have a great day!

 

[Helix]

Well, one of the two of us is doing that.
You have a great day!

Thanks. Please spend your life worrying that someone out there might be trans. If you don't do it, who will?

 

[CLAX1911]

Would that be in a sheet or in Hugo Boss designed uniforms?

Hugo Boss and the Nazis

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Medical science doesn't deal in myths.

It's anti-science to say that gender determines sex.

Learn more about what it means to be transgender or gender diverse

Know the basics about sex and gender, including common terms and definitions.

www.mayoclinic.org

Imaginary friends are for priests, minsters, rabbis, and Imams.

 

[Gatsby]

Thanks. Please spend your life worrying that someone out there might be trans. if you don't do it, who will?

Once America follows the rest of the world except Canada, and puts this issue to rest once and for all, I'll stop worrying about it entirely. And then you can huff and puff as much as you want and no one will care enough to argue with you, no more than I want to debate a flat-earther.

 

[Helix]

Once America follows the rest of the world except Canada, and puts this issue to rest once and for all, I'll stop worrying about it entirely. And then you can huff and puff as much as you want and no one will care enough to argue with you, no more than I want to debate a flat-earther.

But one of them might be holding a basketball. How can you rest? Shit, they just dribbled it!

 

[Gatsby]

But one of them might be holding a basketball. How can you rest? Shit, they just dribbled it!

 

[Lisa]

That's a two-way street. In the same instance I don't have to obey the myth that gender identity determines whether or not a person is a woman.

It's anti-science to say that gender determines sex.

if you call them they will make an appointment to explain it to you.

LGBT Services Houston TX | Specialty Care | Legacy

Legacy recognizes that LGBT patients often have unique needs that require equally unique responses. Learn more about the comprehensive services we offer.

www.legacycommunityhealth.org

Transgender Care

www.utmbhealth.com

 

[Gatsby]

The First Amendment has two clauses that says that I cannot be forced to obey the myths of someone else.

I have no interest in obeying your myth that men can transubstantiate into women by uttering the magic incantation "she/her". You are free to believe that, and if you are an adult you are free to perform whatever ritualistic self-mutilations you want in the service of this belief. But most of us don't want to play this game.

 

[Helix]

SON OF A BITCH A TRANS PERSON JUST USED THE BATHROOM I'M SURE OF IT CALL TUCK TUCK NOW OH **** I'M OUT OF DIESEL

 

[Gatsby]

SON OF A BITCH A TRANS PERSON JUST USED THE BATHROOM I'M SURE OF IT CALL TUCK TUCK NOW OH **** I'M OUT OF DIESEL

You mad bro?