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Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'

joergan

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http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=184612

Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'
By BENJAMIN WEINTHAL JERUSALEM POST CORRESPONDENT
08/12/2010 21:41

Report: German newspaper says photos of dead Kurds confirm use.

BERLIN – German politicians called on Thursday for an international investigation into the reported use of chemical weapons by the Turkish military. The weapons were used against members of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), according to the online edition of the German weekly magazine Der Spiegel.

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This is a War Crime, Erdogan should be arrested and hanged for it, and Turkey expelled from NATO.
 

Apocalypse

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Wow, and it was coming from the Der Spiegel.

Turkey doesn't even have a declared chemical weapons arsenal, so this paper can really be a blow to it.
 

donsutherland1

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If the suspected use of chemical weapons is confirmed, this will be a war crime and the matter will likely undermine Turkey's hopes of joining the European Union.
 

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If the suspected use of chemical weapons is confirmed, this will be a war crime and the matter will likely undermine Turkey's hopes of joining the European Union.
Indeed, although I doubt the finding by Der Spiegel will draw any consequences on the diplomatic ground or be referred to at all.
 

donsutherland1

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Indeed, although I doubt the finding by Der Spiegel will draw any consequences on the diplomatic ground or be referred to at all.
I agree, Apocalypse. It will be up to the European political leaders to follow-up on this matter. If there is sufficient evidence, a case should also be pursued in the appropriate international bodies. Given its gravity, I very much hope that there will be follow-up. Unfortunately, I highly doubt that the UN will weigh in on this matter e.g., no inquiry will be suggested, even given the gravity of the reported act.
 

Jetboogieman

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I agree, Apocalypse. It will be up to the European political leaders to follow-up on this matter. If there is sufficient evidence, a case should also be pursued in the appropriate international bodies. Given its gravity, I very much hope that there will be follow-up. Unfortunately, I highly doubt that the UN will weigh in on this matter e.g., no inquiry will be suggested, even given the gravity of the reported act.
It would be the end of their EU bid all together.

The UN would definitely condemn it.

If it turns out to be true, it's some serious **** for Turkey.
 

washunut

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It would be the end of their EU bid all together.

The UN would definitely condemn it.

If it turns out to be true, it's some serious **** for Turkey.
What about their role in NATO.

Can the U.S. allow a country using chemical weapons to be part of this alliance?
 

Jetboogieman

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What about their role in NATO.

Can the U.S. allow a country using chemical weapons to be part of this alliance?
I think the Obama administration would condemn it, but Turkey is too important for NATO to lose as an ally.
 

washunut

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I think the Obama administration would condemn it, but Turkey is too important for NATO to lose as an ally.
Perhaps if it was a one time event I would agree with you. If Turkey has a policy of using chemical weapons, it becomes harder.
 

Jetboogieman

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Perhaps if it was a one time event I would agree with you. If Turkey has a policy of using chemical weapons, it becomes harder.
True. But all that has to happen is this:

The government that used the weapons must be voted from power and possibly punished. The people shouldn't be.
 

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I think the Obama administration would condemn it, but Turkey is too important for NATO to lose as an ally.
It's very naive to think that there would be any reference to this issue at all.
Not an investigation, not a condemnation, not even a show of concern.
 

Jetboogieman

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It's very naive to think that there would be any reference to this issue at all.
Not an investigation, not a condemnation, not even a show of concern.
I am aware that Obama has been very cautious when dealing with Turkey. Especially over the whole Armenian Genocide thing.

I just hope that the Turkish people show distgust with their governments actions if this is true.
 

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Wow! This news I think will be stunning to the world. I understand Apocalypse's cynicism that anything will really come of this, but if there is substance to these accusations the EU and the US would be completely undermining their Middle East foreign policy agendas by turning a blind eye to this.
 

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First off the Israeli newspaper is highly biased and always has been. It is basically the mouth piece of the Israeli government. It has taken a German article that did not even make the front page, and twisted the words to make the accusation sound much more substantive than they are. There is a stark difference in tone and information between the original article and the one "transcribed" in the Israeli newspaper. Wonder why the key differences...

For one, why does the Israeli article not mention that in the original article stated that Turkey have stated they have no chemical or bio weapons? Or that it was Turkish-Kurdish "human rights" groups that gave the information and pictures to German human rights groups, and selective politicians and journalists? Low standing politicians for the most part on the far left?

Or why did the Israeli article not question the whole thing about a German forensic report.... the German forensic team have had no access to the bodies. The German article mentions that there is supposed a real autopsy report.

Basically, it is another shot over the bow by the Israeli propaganda machine to discredit Turkey in their own going pissing contest over the flotilla raid.
 

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Pete, since you dragged Israel into this . .

Why are you never this skeptical when it comes to bad things being reported about Israel?
 

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Pete, since you dragged Israel into this . .
I did not drag Israel into this. The OP did, since it comes from a well know mouthpiece of the Israeli Government. And we both know that relations between Turkey and Israel are hardly great at the moment so the timing is convenient.. when was the last time a small story about the Turkish-Kurdish conflict got published in an Israeli newspaper? It did not even make it into Danish news media and we have a huge Kurdish population in Denmark, and it barely made it into German media.

I also find it "odd" that there is such a difference between the two articles, both in content and tone.

Why are you never this skeptical when it comes to bad things being reported about Israel?
Have to give some examples, since there are constant "bad reports" being spread by Arab propaganda and yes I dont believe a word of them for the most part. Just as there are negative/bad reports coming out of Israel constantly about the other side. It dont mean they are true does it now. I am equally opportunity sceptical of both sides, as both sides have done nothing what so ever to earn my confidence.. quite the opposite in fact.

Both sides have lied, both sides have denied things that later on turned out to be true and so on and so on. Israel for example lied about using human shields and torture and they are suppose to be the civilized democratic state with laws and stuff... And the other side.. well, I never trust a word of what they say without 3rd party back up.

And in this case the OP posts a link to a well know Israeli government mouth piece who have taken an article from a German website (damn hard to find on the webpage too), twisted the words of the article to give a near total different picture of the original article which was in tone and wording much more sceptical of the evidence and sources. There is a reason that it has not caused any waves in the mass media and that is most likely because the evidence and sources of said evidence are not exactly stellar.
 

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'Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'

Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'
By BENJAMIN WEINTHAL JERUSALEM POST CORRESPONDENT
08/12/2010 21:41

Report: German newspaper says photos of dead Kurds confirm use.

BERLIN – German politicians called on Thursday for an international investigation into the reported use of chemical weapons by the Turkish military. The weapons were used against members of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), according to the online edition of the German weekly magazine Der Spiegel.

----------------------------------

This is a War Crime, Erdogan should be arrested and hanged for it, and Turkey expelled from NATO.
What type of chemical weapons? If it's WP then this is a non-story as WP is a legal incendiary if used properly but is described by anti-war activist types as an illegal chemical weapon.
 

creativedreams

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'Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'

Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'
By BENJAMIN WEINTHAL JERUSALEM POST CORRESPONDENT
08/12/2010 21:41

Report: German newspaper says photos of dead Kurds confirm use.

BERLIN – German politicians called on Thursday for an international investigation into the reported use of chemical weapons by the Turkish military. The weapons were used against members of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), according to the online edition of the German weekly magazine Der Spiegel.

----------------------------------

This is a War Crime, Erdogan should be arrested and hanged for it, and Turkey expelled from NATO.
I say we bomb them, invade them, look for weapons, hang their leader, and then attempt to restructure their government...:shrug:
 

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I did not drag Israel into this. The OP did, since it comes from a well know mouthpiece of the Israeli Government.
Jerusalem Post is an independent newspaper, although I am fully aware of your damaged opinion that Israeli newspapers cannot be independent if only because they are Israeli, but that controversial notion is irrelevant to the facts.
Now if you want to claim it's biased then feel free to do so, but it is certainly not a "mouthpiece of the Israeli government" as it has no governmental control.
 

Apocalypse

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What type of chemical weapons? If it's WP then this is a non-story as WP is a legal incendiary if used properly but is described by anti-war activist types as an illegal chemical weapon.
Obviously it's not WP they're talking about, otherwise it wouldn't count as news.
 

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Jerusalem Post is an independent newspaper, although I am fully aware of your damaged opinion that Israeli newspapers cannot be independent if only because they are Israeli, but that controversial notion is irrelevant to the facts.
Now if you want to claim it's biased then feel free to do so, but it is certainly not a "mouthpiece of the Israeli government" as it has no governmental control.
Yes it is independent, but so is the Times of London, the Washington Times and so on and so on. And they are hardly unbiased sources and have many times been used by certain political parties or even governments to promote a certain view.

As for my comment that they are a mouth piece of the Israeli government.. then explain why there was a change in the tone and information in the reporting so to have a much more negative view of Turkey than the original article, at a time when Israel and Turkey are not the best of friends?
 

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Yes it is independent, but so is the Times of London, the Washington Times and so on and so on. And they are hardly unbiased sources and have many times been used by certain political parties or even governments to promote a certain view.

As for my comment that they are a mouth piece of the Israeli government.. then explain why there was a change in the tone and information in the reporting so to have a much more negative view of Turkey than the original article, at a time when Israel and Turkey are not the best of friends?
Maybe because like all newspapers in the world they look to sell papers. Makes sense that the Israeli public, not just the government is unhappy with Turkey. So finding something negative to write is good business. The fact that everyone knows that Turkey kills many PKK and probably civilians who are in the way helps the narrative.

If yo were not so negative toward Israel, it wold not be hard to come up with a more reasonable explanation for the article.
 

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Yes it is independent, but so is the Times of London, the Washington Times and so on and so on. And they are hardly unbiased sources and have many times been used by certain political parties or even governments to promote a certain view.
So which newspapers would you consider to be genuine media outlets? I'm guessing only those that lean to the left.
 

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Yes it is independent, but so is the Times of London, the Washington Times and so on and so on. And they are hardly unbiased sources and have many times been used by certain political parties or even governments to promote a certain view.

As for my comment that they are a mouth piece of the Israeli government.. then explain why there was a change in the tone and information in the reporting so to have a much more negative view of Turkey than the original article, at a time when Israel and Turkey are not the best of friends?
First of all it could be that the JP is merely biased, so there is no logic behind the automatic claim for "being a mouthpiece for the government".

As to the article at hand, here is the original article from the Der Spiegel:
Shocking Images of Dead Kurdish Fighters: Turkey Accused of Using Chemical Weapons against PKK - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

German experts have confirmed the authenticity of photographs that purport to show PKK fighters killed by chemical weapons. The evidence puts increasing pressure on the Turkish government, which has long been suspected of using such weapons against Kurdish rebels. German politicians are demanding an investigation.
As you can see the original article is much more strongly worded and is actually confident in its stance that Turkey has indeed used Chemical weapons, so this kinda makes your accusation towards the Israeli report on that article to be pretty bizarre and irrational.

I myself think that the OP should have been the article from the Der Spiegel instead of a report on that article from any other source, but I don't see how the difference is working against the Turks here.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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The damage done does not seem similar to any chemical weapon that I know of but is sounds more like an explosive of somesort that causes burning (fuel air bomb?)
 
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