Trust

[element94]

This past year has shown us the cost of reduced confidence in our systems and institutions. It's also shown us how easily that confidence, that trust...that faith can be eroded away. And it's not going away...this will not be isolated. This is, in my opinion, the challenge of our lives for my generation. How to solve the national crisis of faith. I've heard both sides, here and in real life, screaming at each other, both sides yelling the same things. "Follow the evidence!" "Facts don't lie!" Etc. Somehow, guys, we've got to come together and figure this out.

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View attachment 67363471

What exactly do you mean by 'the national crisis of faith"?

 

[tshade]

This began in earnest before Trump, his was simply a crescendo.

This began with biased journalism, imo.

Maybe-----but I saw DRASTIC acceleration with trump onwards--------no comparison

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

100%.

Personally...this may have to involve legislation governing news media.

Damn if I know what that looks like, though.

There is no type of legislation that can fix the news media problem.
For the past nearly forty years, the news media has been a for-profit enterprise, because what we think of as "news" is actually a consumer product, and HAS been for almost 40 years, and as such, it is marketed to us as a consumer product.
Consumers don't like being told what they NEED to hear. A consumer wants to be told what they WANT to hear.

To the contrary, a well informed citizen doesn't do that.
A well informed citizen says, "give it to me straight, the good and the bad."
Well, corporations that market consumer products are not going to give it to you straight because they want your ass glued to the seat and your eyeballs glued to the screen.

Some things in life simply aren't meant to be consumer products and our news is now "INFOTAINMENT" sold to us at a profit.
If you want real news, the straight news, then you have to make news a PUBLIC SERVICE, and you have to take the profit pressure off the media outlets.
That's almost what American news used to be, back before 24 hour cable news channels and the resulting sunset of The Fairness Doctrine, which is unworkable in its original form in a cable news channel environment.

If you place profit over everything else in the news industry, your news WILL BE distorted, and that's a guarantee you can take to the bank.

 

[KevinKohler]

Maybe-----but I saw DRASTIC acceleration with trump onwards--------no comparison

For certain. He tapped into it beautifully, which SHOULD scare the crap out of everyone on this forum. You either believe Trump was a genius, and that's how he was able to masterfully manipulate an entire nation...

...or, you have to believe then, that we, as a nation, are so primed, and on such uncertain ground...that ant old charlatan can come along and hoodwink us all.

 

[KevinKohler]

What exactly do you mean by 'the national crisis of faith"?

Belief.

For instance, when CNN runs a story about an elected official...why do you believe it? Have they handed you evidence? No, not really. Is there video? Not usually. Nope, ultimately, you're taking someone's word for it. IE, faith.

 

[KevinKohler]

There is no type of legislation that can fix the news media problem.
For the past nearly forty years, the news media has been a for-profit enterprise, because what we think of as "news" is actually a consumer product, and HAS been for almost 40 years, and as such, it is marketed to us as a consumer product.
Consumers don't like being told what they NEED to hear. A consumer wants to be told what they WANT to hear.

To the contrary, a well informed citizen doesn't do that.
A well informed citizen says, "give it to me straight, the good and the bad."
Well, corporations that market consumer products are not going to give it to you straight because they want your ass glued to the seat and your eyeballs glued to the screen.

Some things in life simply aren't meant to be consumer products and our news is now "INFOTAINMENT" sold to us at a profit.
If you want real news, the straight news, then you have to make news a PUBLIC SERVICE, and you have to take the profit pressure off the media outlets.
That's almost what American news used to be, back before 24 hour cable news channels and the resulting sunset of The Fairness Doctrine, which is unworkable in its original form in a cable news channel environment.

If you place profit over everything else in the news industry, your news WILL BE distorted, and that's a guarantee you can take to the bank.

I'd be curious to know the operating costs of Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC.


Or BBC, for that matter.

 

[Mr Person]

It's likely not. We're slowing circling the drain, it seems like.
Social media, facebook, the corruption of the Republican party, Citizen's United...the trend is bleak.

Yeah.

The question of how to "fix" things seems impossible to answer where consumers of one particular swath of media (Fox and other farther-right broadcasts) have willingly accepted the increasingly overwhelming premise that anything heard contrary to whatever that media is a partisan lie to be ignored entirely. It's so far beyond the bias of any other media source.

If someone is simply going to ignore my post, my links, anything that disagrees with whatever they've already been told to think, there's nothing I can do to change their mind about anything. We're at a point where those I speak of point to publicized corrections and retractions as proof that a left-lean source is lying; admission of fault is considered a damning sin, while refusing to ever back down is read as a sign of strength.

It really is not some both-sides thing. No matter how much bias one finds in left-lean media, it is still just bias. It isn't outright propaganda coupled with a command to treat anything said otherwise as a malicious partisan lie. After a few decades of that unified message, and what can be done about it? Nothing, it would seem. Not unless the entities pumping it out stop, admit, repent.

Circling the drain. Except someone is also pumping out water.

 

[Mach]

Lies, lies of omission, etc., are all interesting. I think it goes a step further when you have a party base that supports the lies, lies of omission, etc., even spreads them, vs one that holds the party accountable.
Democrats do engage in shenaningas too, to a degree, but they aren't applauded for it the way Republicans are. It's this "corruption" of the party that makes it so that lies/trust no longer matter, it's party loyalty that matters.

where consumers of one particular swath of media (Fox and other farther-right broadcasts) have willingly accepted the increasingly overwhelming premise that anything heard contrary to whatever that media is a partisan lie to be ignored entirely. It's so far beyond the bias of any other media source.

Exactly. Had I written more I would have followed it with that.
I consider that "corruption". The voter base has been corrupted. They are OK with supporting the lies, fake news, propoganda. I mean, both parties engage in it to different degrees, but you have a base of Republicans that actively cheer it on, and with a peak when Trump was in office. Everything he did bad they cheered and jeered at the media/Democrats. It's been corrupted. Corruption ensures it won't get fixed, unless that corruption is excised. Given the entrenchment in media (FOX, OAN, the right wing media sphere) and law (Citizens United, jerrymandering, etc) I don't see how it does anything but get worse.

 

[calamity]

Lies, lies of omission, etc., are all interesting. I think it goes a step further when you have a party base that supports the lies, lies of omission, etc., even spreads them, vs one that holds the party accountable.
Democrats do engage in shenaningas too, to a degree, but they aren't applauded for it the way Republicans are. It's this "corruption" of the party that makes it so that lies/trust no longer matter, it's party loyalty that matters.

Exactly. Had I written more I would have followed it with that.
I consider that "corruption". The voter base has been corrupted. They are OK with supporting the lies, fake news, propoganda. I mean, both parties engage in it to different degrees, but you have a base of Republicans that actively cheer it on, and with a peak when Trump was in office. Everything he did bad they cheered and jeered at the media/Democrats. It's been corrupted. Corruption ensures it won't get fixed, unless that corruption is excised. Given the entrenchment in media (FOX, OAN, the right wing media sphere) and law (Citizens United, jerrymandering, etc) I don't see how it does anything but get worse.

Yep, back when we were basically one unified nation, Archie Bunker did not have his own "news" station. Now, even the most vile are given legitimacy. And, that is tearing us apart.

 

[KevinKohler]

Yeah.

The question of how to "fix" things seems impossible to answer where consumers of one particular swath of media (Fox and other farther-right broadcasts) have willingly accepted the increasingly overwhelming premise that anything heard contrary to whatever that media is a partisan lie to be ignored entirely. It's so far beyond the bias of any other media source.

If someone is simply going to ignore my post, my links, anything that disagrees with whatever they've already been told to think, there's nothing I can do to change their mind about anything. We're at a point where those I speak of point to publicized corrections and retractions as proof that a left-lean source is lying; admission of fault is considered a damning sin, while refusing to ever back down is read as a sign of strength.

It really is not some both-sides thing. No matter how much bias one finds in left-lean media, it is still just bias. It isn't outright propaganda coupled with a command to treat anything said otherwise as a malicious partisan lie. After a few decades of that unified message, and what can be done about it? Nothing, it would seem. Not unless the entities pumping it out stop, admit, repent.

Circling the drain. Except someone is also pumping out water.

The NY Times endorses a Democrat presidential candidate every election cycle. Like, as a company.

And of the posters here who put folks on ignore, I know of 2, who are the most prominent, and their lean is left, not right.
Food for thought.

On a whole, though, I agree with your post. Faux news is, in my opinion, the worst of them, and has, to a large extent, been the driving force behind this issue.

BUT.

It could just as easily be CNN. They could just as easily sink to fox's level. There's nothing stopping them.

 

[soap box]

Agreed, but many kids are visual learners, so this image may help:

View attachment 67363487

Well, I meant education of civics, the three branches, responsibility, role in citizenship. I meant things you and I learned when we were kids. But yeah I get the joke.

 

[jcgriff2]

It's likely not. We're slowing circling the drain, it seems like.
Social media, facebook, the corruption of the Republican party, Citizen's United...the trend is bleak.

The corruption of the GOP?

Oh please, democrats like BIDEN took that title a long time ago.

BIDEN admittedly plagiarized his way through law school.

 

[tshade]

For certain. He tapped into it beautifully, which SHOULD scare the crap out of everyone on this forum. You either believe Trump was a genius, and that's how he was able to masterfully manipulate an entire nation...

Correction---only 70+ million = he lost the popular vote twice. No person voted for him out of rationality

...or, you have to believe then, that we, as a nation, are so primed, and on such uncertain ground...that ant old charlatan can come along and hoodwink us all.

Suckers are born every minute

 

[Mach]

The corruption of the GOP?
Oh please, democrats like BIDEN took that title a long time ago.
BIDEN admittedly plagiarized his way through law school.

Crooks in office those Republicans. Lap it up. Not even counting Trump's criminal crew.

 

[calamity]

The corruption of the GOP?

Oh please, democrats like BIDEN took that title a long time ago.

BIDEN admittedly plagiarized his way through law school.

lol...silly whining post ^

 

[Mach]

The corruption of the GOP?
Oh please, democrats like BIDEN took that title a long time ago.
BIDEN admittedly plagiarized his way through law school.

Let's do add Team Trump, or at least the non-Russian ones: That's one corrupt Trump campaign crew.


Obama Administration (over 8 years)
0 (zero) charges
0 (zero) indictments
0 (zero) guilty pleas
0 (zero) convictions

Trump Administration (so far in 2yrs)
191 charges
35 indictments
26 Russian nationals
6 indicted Trump officials
6 guilty pleas
5 convictions
3 Russian companies

 

[Roadvirus]

The corruption of the GOP?

Oh please, democrats like BIDEN took that title a long time ago.

BIDEN admittedly plagiarized his way through law school.

And most of his political career

 

[Mach]

And most of his political career

Biden's so non-corrupt that Republicans constantly hound his only living son like he's Satan reborn.

 

[jcgriff2]

PART 1

Crooks in office those Republicans. Lap it up. Not even counting Trump's criminal crew.

View attachment 67363511

What a fuc*ing half-assed "investigation" on your part. Disgraceful.

What do you mean by your first 'partial' sentence "Crooks in office those Republicans." Is that a complete sentence? My young son does not think so nor do I. WTF does it mean?

You seem to have missed a few, but given your source, I now see why the graphs contain very little truth.

No worries - I found them for you.

It really is unconscionable to miss all of these.

1963–1969 (Lyndon B. Johnson presidency)[edit]​

Legislative branch[edit]​

• Frank W. Boykin (D-AL) was convicted of conspiracy and conflict of interest (1963).[35]
• Daniel Brewster (D-MD) pleaded no contest to accepting "an unlawful gratuity without corrupt intent." (1969)[36]

• Judicial branch[edit]​

  • Walter Nixon (D) Chief Judge of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Mississippi, was convicted of perjury (1986).[37]

1977–1981 (Jimmy Carter presidency)[edit]​

Legislative branch[edit]​

• Richard Tonry (D-LA) pleaded guilty to receiving illegal campaign contributions (1977).[55]
• Charles Diggs (D-MI), convicted on 29 charges of mail fraud and filing false payroll forms which formed a kickback scheme with his staff. Sentenced to 3 years (1978).[56]
• Frank M. Clark (D-PA) pleaded guilty to mail fraud and tax evasion and was sentenced to two years in prison (1979).[58]

Judicial branch[edit]​

• Harry E. Claiborne (D) Chief Judge of the United States District Court for the District of Nevada, was convicted of tax evasion (1984).[59]

END PART 1

 

[jcgriff2]

PART 2

1993–2001 (Bill Clinton presidency)[edit]​

Executive branch[edit]​

• Darleen Druyun (D), Principal Deputy United States Under Secretary of the Air Force.[108] She pleaded guilty to inflating the price of contracts to favor her future employer, Boeing. In October 2004, she was sentenced to nine months in jail for corruption, fined $5,000, given three years of supervised release and 150 hours of community service (2005).[109] CBS News called it "the biggest Pentagon scandal in 20 years" and said that she pleaded guilty to a felony.[110]
• Wade Sanders (D), Deputy Assistant United States Secretary of the Navy, for Reserve Affairs, was sentenced to 37 months in prison on one charge of possession of child pornography (2009).[111][112][113]
• Webster Hubbell (D) United States Associate Attorney General convicted of fraud and jailed for 21 months. (1996)[114]

Legislative branch[edit]​

• House banking scandal[115] The House of Representatives Bank found that 450 members had overdrawn their checking accounts, but not been penalized. Six were convicted of charges, most only tangentially related to the House Bank itself. Twenty two more of the most prolific over-drafters were singled out by the House Ethics Committee (1992).
  1. Carroll Hubbard (D-KY) was convicted of illegally funneling money to his wife's 1992 campaign to succeed him in Congress.[116]
  2. Carl C. Perkins (D-KY) pleaded guilty to a check kiting scheme involving several financial institutions (including the House Bank).[117]
  3. Walter Fauntroy (D-District of Columbia) was convicted of filing false disclosure forms to hide unauthorized income.[118]
  4. Mary Rose Oakar (D-OH) pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor campaign finance charge not related to the House Bank.[120]

Was your graph for traffic tickets or maybe DUIs?

END PART 2

 

[jcgriff2]

PART 3

Bill Clinton, cont'd

• Congressional Post Office scandal (1991–1995) was a conspiracy to embezzle House Post Office money through stamps and postal vouchers to congressmen.[121]
  1. Dan Rostenkowski (D-IL) was convicted and sentenced to 18 months in prison, in 1995.[122]
  2. Joe Kolter (D-PA) pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy and sentenced to 6 months in prison (1996).[123][124]
• Austin Murphy (D-PA) was convicted of one count of voter fraud for filling out absentee ballots for members of a nursing home (1999).[127]
• Mel Reynolds (D-IL) was convicted on 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography (1997). He was later convicted of 12 counts of bank fraud (1999).

Judicial branch[edit]​

• Thomas Porteous (D) Judge of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana, was convicted of perjury (2010) in his impeachment trial.[128]

​

 

[jcgriff2]

PART 4

2009–2017 (Barack Obama presidency)[edit]

Executive branch[edit]​

• General David Petraeus (I)[151] Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. On April 23, 2015, a federal judge sentenced Petraeus to two years' probation plus a fine of $100,000 for providing classified information to Lieutenant Colonel Paula Broadwell (2015).[152]

Legislative branch[edit]​

• Laura Richardson (D-CA) was found guilty on seven counts of violating US House rules by improperly using her staff to campaign for her, destroying the evidence and tampering with witness testimony. The House Ethics Committee ordered Richardson to pay a fine of $10,000 (2012).[154][155]
• Jesse Jackson Jr. (D-IL) pleaded guilty February 20, 2013, to one count of wire and mail fraud in connection with his misuse of $750,000 in campaign funds. Jackson was sentenced to two-and-one-half years' imprisonment (2013).[156]
• Chaka Fattah (D-PA) was convicted on 23 counts of racketeering, fraud, and other corruption charges (2016).[164]
• Corrine Brown (D-FL) was convicted on 18 felony counts of wire and tax fraud, conspiracy, lying to federal investigators, and other corruption charges (2017).[165][166]
• Anthony Weiner (D-NY)[167] was convicted of sending sexually explicit photos of himself to a 15-year-old girl and was made to sign the sexual offenders register. He also was sentenced to 21 months in prison, a charge that was later reduced to 18 months. He reported to prison in November 2017 and was released in May 2019 (2017).[168]

Judicial branch[edit]​

• Thomas Porteous (D), Federal Judge of the U.S. Eastern District of Louisiana was impeached, convicted and removed from office December 8, 2010, on charges of bribery and lying to Congress (2010).[176][177]

 

[jcgriff2]

Let's do add Team Trump, or at least the non-Russian ones: That's one corrupt Trump campaign crew.
View attachment 67363518

Obama Administration (over 8 years)
0 (zero) charges
0 (zero) indictments
0 (zero) guilty pleas
0 (zero) convictions

Trump Administration (so far in 2yrs)
191 charges
35 indictments
26 Russian nationals
6 indicted Trump officials
6 guilty pleas
5 convictions
3 Russian companies

All that BS and only 5 convictions, probably all pardoned except traitor Cohhen.

The rest does not matter - it's almost been a year.

 

[jcgriff2]

lol...silly whining post ^

Your best reply. Figures.

 

[holbritter]

Just the most recent examples, for sale at just about every store that sells books. Which books are to be believed? Which accredited author is correct?

How do we know which media to pay attention to, and which to ignore? Do we use fact checkers? Are you sure those fact checkers aren't biased? How do you know? Follow the evidence? Who's evidence?

Well?

How is faith to be restored? Clearly not by those looking to make money off the news, in my opinion. They're after sensationalism. So. Which of those books do YOU believe, and why THOSE books over the OTHER examples I posted? Is it your bias that compelled you to believe one over the other...or is your belief in one over the other responsible for your bias?

Whichever book aligns closest to what the reader wants to believe, will be the one they go with.
It can be hard to figure out what is the truth when you don't hear or see for yourself whatever information is being presented. And short of being everywhere at all times, it's impossible. Bias is everywhere.