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Trust

KevinKohler

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This past year has shown us the cost of reduced confidence in our systems and institutions. It's also shown us how easily that confidence, that trust...that faith can be eroded away. And it's not going away...this will not be isolated. This is, in my opinion, the challenge of our lives for my generation. How to solve the national crisis of faith. I've heard both sides, here and in real life, screaming at each other, both sides yelling the same things. "Follow the evidence!" "Facts don't lie!" Etc. Somehow, guys, we've got to come together and figure this out.

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Just the most recent examples, for sale at just about every store that sells books. Which books are to be believed? Which accredited author is correct?

How do we know which media to pay attention to, and which to ignore? Do we use fact checkers? Are you sure those fact checkers aren't biased? How do you know? Follow the evidence? Who's evidence?

Well?

How is faith to be restored? Clearly not by those looking to make money off the news, in my opinion. They're after sensationalism. So. Which of those books do YOU believe, and why THOSE books over the OTHER examples I posted? Is it your bias that compelled you to believe one over the other...or is your belief in one over the other responsible for your bias?
 
Respect and trust cannot be bought. A politician has to earn them.
 
I think there are two factors at play here.

One, large institutions have to earn trust. My political awakening came right around the time Colin Powell went to Congress about WMDs and Congress near-unanimously voted to go to war. Since then I have seen time-and-time again our institutions hobble the truth or outright lie, and they’ve become so overt (Trump’s sharpie weather map comes to mind…) that one could ask why we should have any faith at all. So long as institutions and incoming leaders of them assume they have trust, nothing will change. We need a new generation of leaders whose primary mandate is to rebuild faith in our nation‘s leadership.

Two, media has become too effective at sharing just a particular point of view in order to keep eyes glued to screens. It’s stunning how effective media outlets - conservative and liberal alike - have become. I don’t know what can be done about this, outside of legislation that no one will have an appetite for. Unfortunately one of the tools media use to keep viewership high is the cultivation of “you can’t trust anyone else but you can trust us” reporting which contributes to the problem.

I’m not sure what the path forward is.
 
Respect and trust cannot be bought. A politician has to earn them.
Yes, but this goes beyond that. There is lack of trust in elections on both sides, lack of trust in media on both sides. It's a scary world when nothing and everything can be believed.
 
We went 6 months asking for the evidence of voter fraud , and it changed to the complicated question of election fraud. We condemned J6and we have a whitewash In response.
There's a YouTube video showing workers who supposedly counted the ballots several times in Detroit. When that video on YT was shown in court, the defense showed the real and original video so that the court could compare the real video directly to the version YT. It was obvious with the videos side by side that one had been edited. Only about 80 k people saw the real and original video. The fake and edited version has more than a million views.
If we can't agree on facts, we will not be able to solve our problems.
 
This past year has shown us the cost of reduced confidence in our systems and institutions. It's also shown us how easily that confidence, that trust...that faith can be eroded away. And it's not going away...this will not be isolated. This is, in my opinion, the challenge of our lives for my generation. How to solve the national crisis of faith. I've heard both sides, here and in real life, screaming at each other, both sides yelling the same things. "Follow the evidence!" "Facts don't lie!" Etc. Somehow, guys, we've got to come together and figure this out.

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What has caused such a large amount of Americans to lose that trust by believing the Trump's of the world??? Why do people fall for cults???
 
I think there are two factors at play here.

One, large institutions have to earn trust. My political awakening came right around the time Colin Powell went to Congress about WMDs and Congress near-unanimously voted to go to war. Since then I have seen time-and-time again our institutions hobble the truth or outright lie, and they’ve become so overt (Trump’s sharpie weather map comes to mind…) that one could ask why we should have any faith at all. So long as institutions and incoming leaders of them assume they have trust, nothing will change. We need a new generation of leaders whose primary mandate is to rebuild faith in our nation‘s leadership.

Two, media has become too effective at sharing just a particular point of view in order to keep eyes glued to screens. It’s stunning how effective media outlets - conservative and liberal alike - have become. I don’t know what can be done about this, outside of legislation that no one will have an appetite for. Unfortunately one of the tools media use to keep viewership high is the cultivation of “you can’t trust anyone else but you can trust us” reporting which contributes to the problem.

I’m not sure what the path forward is.
Me either.

I'm genuinely afraid for our future, and that's very atypical for me. I've broached this subject lightly in other threads, only to be shouted down, because, facts.

But at the end of the day, those "facts" come from a source, and if I don't trust the source, those fact are no longer facts in my mind.
 
We went 6 months asking for the evidence of voter fraud , and it changed to the complicated question of election fraud. We condemned J6and we have a whitewash In response.
There's a YouTube video showing workers who supposedly counted the ballots several times in Detroit. When that video on YT was shown in court, the defense showed the real and original video so that the court could compare the real video directly to the version YT. It was obvious with the videos side by side that one had been edited. Only about 80 k people saw the real and original video. The fake and edited version has more than a million views.
If we can't agree on facts, we will not be able to solve our problems.
100%.

Personally...this may have to involve legislation governing news media.

Damn if I know what that looks like, though.
 
It's hard to come to a consensus with people who are willfully spoon fed lies each and every day by people who make a living doing so.

The main problem isn't both sides coming together. It is the nation finally deciding it has had enough with the normalization of bullshit. Enough of the Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan, MSG, and Lauren Boehbert's. Enough of Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and the mega church pastors. Enough of media outlets desperate to make everything a "both sides" issue and pretending provable lies deserve an equal amount of screen/page time as facts.
 
Me either.

I'm genuinely afraid for our future, and that's very atypical for me. I've broached this subject lightly in other threads, only to be shouted down, because, facts.

But at the end of the day, those "facts" come from a source, and if I don't trust the source, those fact are no longer facts in my mind.
I’ve been thinking we need the Fairness Doctrine back. I dislike the thought - such overt structuring of media coverage - but I think it might actually be in the long run healthier for country.
 
Just the most recent examples, for sale at just about every store that sells books. Which books are to be believed? Which accredited author is correct?

How do we know which media to pay attention to, and which to ignore? Do we use fact checkers? Are you sure those fact checkers aren't biased? How do you know? Follow the evidence? Who's evidence?

Well?

How is faith to be restored? Clearly not by those looking to make money off the news, in my opinion. They're after sensationalism. So. Which of those books do YOU believe, and why THOSE books over the OTHER examples I posted? Is it your bias that compelled you to believe one over the other...or is your belief in one over the other responsible for your bias?
Cable news, books, etc. are all about making money. People for the most part will believe what they want to believe, true or not, fact or fiction. Don't like the news the way it's presented on one channel, switch channels and get the news with your biases and in according with your point of view. Books, start on one you don't like what presented or is presenting the subject in a way you don't want to read or hear about. Throw the book away and find one that suit your political biases and presents the subject in the manner you want presented.

This isn't going to change.
 
We should have required courses in school that focus on how to construct the truth by assembling pieces from the different points of view that are available. I remember being fortunate to take a class quite early on that was focused explicitly on critical thinking - think logic puzzles and the like. It shaped how I seek out information, and this sort of thing adapted to how media, books, and thought leaders share points of view on a single factual topic—and how to reconstruct the facts by assembling these seemingly differing points of view—could be quite valuable.
 
This past year has shown us the cost of reduced confidence in our systems and institutions. It's also shown us how easily that confidence, that trust...that faith can be eroded away. And it's not going away...this will not be isolated. This is, in my opinion, the challenge of our lives for my generation. How to solve the national crisis of faith. I've heard both sides, here and in real life, screaming at each other, both sides yelling the same things. "Follow the evidence!" "Facts don't lie!" Etc. Somehow, guys, we've got to come together and figure this out.
A good start is to cite named sources.
 
100%.

Personally...this may have to involve legislation governing news media.

Damn if I know what that looks like, though.
Yeah, I would hate to get into that, but I have a long term idea, kids in school have to know the difference between fact and opinion, and they have to be able to understand our government better. It depends on our education system. I know it will take decades,but that's the best I can do atm.
 
This past year has shown us the cost of reduced confidence in our systems and institutions. It's also shown us how easily that confidence, that trust...that faith can be eroded away. And it's not going away...this will not be isolated. This is, in my opinion, the challenge of our lives for my generation. How to solve the national crisis of faith. I've heard both sides, here and in real life, screaming at each other, both sides yelling the same things. "Follow the evidence!" "Facts don't lie!" Etc. Somehow, guys, we've got to come together and figure this out.
We won't. You are witnessing the beginning of the end.
 
How is faith to be restored?
It's likely not. We're slowing circling the drain, it seems like.
Social media, facebook, the corruption of the Republican party, Citizen's United...the trend is bleak.
 
What has caused such a large amount of Americans to lose that trust by believing the Trump's of the world??? Why do people fall for cults???
This began in earnest before Trump, his was simply a crescendo.

This began with biased journalism, imo.
 
Yeah, I would hate to get into that, but I have a long term idea, kids in school have to know the difference between fact and opinion, and they have to be able to understand our government better. It depends on our education system. I know it will take decades,but that's the best I can do atm.
I dont disagree, but the problem with is, lies by omission. Things out of context. Etc. Facts can be presented in the most biased of ways.
 
We won't. You are witnessing the beginning of the end.
I refuse to accept that.

I have no idea your age, but I'm 40, and I'm of the mind that all we need is to convince my generation...to give a shit. At least, enough so to work towards something that'll lead to actual, measurable change. I thought Sanders was gonna be our guy to do it, but I guess not. Maybe we need someone fresh.
 
A good start is to cite named sources.
That opens those sources up to serious retort. I'm barely old enough to remember the shit storm big tobacco whistle blowers who came forward publicly went through...but I remember.
 
Yeah, I would hate to get into that, but I have a long term idea, kids in school have to know the difference between fact and opinion, and they have to be able to understand our government better.

Agreed, but many kids are visual learners, so this image may help:

trust government.jpg
 
Agreed, but many kids are visual learners, so this image may help:

View attachment 67363487
By the people. Of the people.

Your distrust of the individuals who comprise our government is the result of your own poor decisions. You, me, us...we chose those people.

Look in the mirror.
 
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