Trump Disgracefully Politicizes NYC Terror Attack

[GDViking]

I agree but this is the president of the United States. There are American citizens from Uzbekistan. There are immigrants from Uzbekistan. Gun control is about legislation. This is about people. He's fear mongering and blaming immigration. Can you imagine if Trump were president during 9/11?

I still can't imagine he is president now.

Every time I hear him called president trump I think (and often yell at the radio or tv) stop saying that, it can't be true people can't be that stupid!!!!

 

[Praxas]

That has not been proven. You can state it like it is, but that doesn't make it a fact.

As well you can state she was the one to politicize it, but that doesn't make it a fact. Works both ways there buddy.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

Its fine to attack anyone when appropriate as long as a proper resolution is proposed.

But we don't even know the facts of the case yet. When was this man radicalized? Was he radicalized 9 years ago before he applied for immigration?

 

[ColdWarVet]

As well you can state she was the one to politicize it, but that doesn't make it a fact. Works both ways there buddy.

Please take note of my sig

 

[OlNate]

False equivalency.

Attacks like the one in Manhattan (and London, Paris, etc.) are political terrorism, organized and directed from a declared enemy of our society. They are designed to punish, and also demonstrate our people are not untouchable.

This is different from either typical crimes (like gun-involved thefts and murders), or mental instability (perhaps the Las Vegas attack...although that is still under investigation).

Hi Cap'n. Here's the part I don't get. How do you play politics with terrorists? They don't have a country, they don't have an ambassador, they are not restricted to the rules of war... They claim political motive, but their impact is far less than other organized crime groups operating in America...yet they get way more coverage, and way more money is spent to address them - hell, you guys have been at war for going on a couple decades now to address it. Aren't you putting them on something of a pedestal, thus empowering and enabling them, instead of treating them like the criminals they are?

Just trying to understand the difference between them and, say, organized drug cartels or street gangs that have far higher kill counts than Islamic extremist factions...other than, of course, the fantastic tool they are for politicians looking to scare the crap out of Americans in order to get their vote.

 

[Tigerace117]

I see the Trump haters coming out of the wall like roaches to defend Bush' incompetence.

I see the Trump cultists continue to cower as they have no actual ability to defend their claims

 

[GDViking]

She didn't politicize it until Trump lied.

Not only that, she did not eavesdrop but was a guest of the family and was allowed to listen to trump disrespecting her friends fallen husband.

 

[iliveonramen]

But Ms Wilson eavesdropping on a phone call from the President to the widow of a dead veteran, to politicize it was ok.
Got it!

I'm almost positive that is completely false

 

[TheGoverness]

Hi Cap'n. Here's the part I don't get. How do you play politics with terrorists? They don't have a country, they don't have an ambassador, they are not restricted to the rules of war... They claim political motive, but their impact is far less than other organized crime groups operating in America...yet they get way more coverage, and way more money is spent to address them - hell, you guys have been at war for going on a couple decades now to address it. Aren't you putting them on something of a pedestal, thus empowering and enabling them, instead of treating them like the criminals they are?

Just trying to understand the difference between them and, say, organized drug cartels or street gangs that have far higher kill counts than Islamic extremist factions...other than, of course, the fantastic tool they are for politicians looking to scare the crap out of Americans in order to get their vote.

I don't agree that terrorists don't have more impact than organized crime groups in the U.S. Just look at 9/11. 9 people, 4 planes, and they changed the country forever. Plenty of new laws and changes were made in response to those attacks. And then you have the terrorist attacks that have hit Europe, and the massive impact they've had on those countries. Terrorists impact our society greatly.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

I see the Trump haters coming out of the wall like roaches to defend Bush' incompetence.

Most of Trump haters didn't vote for Bush.

I voted for Bush the first time. Not the second. I was done with the Republican Party and its nonsense.

No one is defending Bush. And Trump is the one doing the attacking. What we are saying is that even Bush knew how to behave like a president in times of tragedy. Your first job is to console and unite the country not to start a political war the day after. I can't believe anyone would defend Trump's disgraceful behavior.

If Americans are attacked the job of our president is to unite us not divide us. It's a job Trump is incapable of handling.

 

[iliveonramen]

Yes. Bush ignored a memo titled "BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO ATTACK THE U.S." and his federal agencies were asleep at the wheel ignoring terrorism.

I'm curious, what would you do if given absolute powers if you got a memo that Bin Laden was determined to attack the US?

You have no time frame, you have no specifics, you are pretty much given some broad warning that an attack was taking place

 

[Praxas]

Please take note of my sig

I take note of your dodging and running away.

 

[ColdWarVet]

I'm almost positive that is completely false

almost? LOL

 

[Nap]

It's always amusing to see partisan comments in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy. If the tragedy is a mass shooting, conservatives/Republicans swear we cannot politicize the deaths of innocents by talking about gun control, but if the attack is by a Muslim, they cannot wait to condemn Muslims and call for them to be banned. Conversely, when there is a mass shooting, liberals/Democrats can't wait to talk about gun control and how it could have saved innocent lives, but when it is a minority, they swear we cannot politicize the deaths of innocents by talking about minorities.

It's almost like so many people are gigantic hypocrites, including our political leaders.

I completely agree. The one exception I have is that it isn't "like" so many are hypocrites, they simply are.

Politicizing a tragedy immediately after the event takes place is dangerous in my opinion because in most instances all of the facts are not immediately available and any policy based on emotion rather than sound logic is bound to have negative consequences.

 

[iliveonramen]

almost? LOL

Because unlike you I don't claim to be a mind reader and have the ability to see instances in time, but based on what both the widow and congresswoman have said, your claim is false.

 

[ColdWarVet]

I take note of your dodging and running away.

Take it however gets you to sleep at night.
P.S. you're the latter, not the former

 

[humbolt]

I wouldn't disagree except that I don't view an immigration lottery as a political issue to start with. It's a security issue. Now if you want to politicize our security, perhaps you can make it one. I have no doubt others have exactly that in mind.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Hi Cap'n. Here's the part I don't get. How do you play politics with terrorists? They don't have a country, they don't have an ambassador, they are not restricted to the rules of war... They claim political motive, but their impact is far less than other organized crime groups operating in America...yet they get way more coverage, and way more money is spent to address them - hell, you guys have been at war for going on a couple decades now to address it. Aren't you putting them on something of a pedestal, thus empowering and enabling them, instead of treating them like the criminals they are?

Just trying to understand the difference between them and, say, organized drug cartels or street gangs that have far higher kill counts than Islamic extremist factions...other than, of course, the fantastic tool they are for politicians looking to scare the crap out of Americans in order to get their vote.

Apparently you are not that familiar with the American criminal justice system.

There is a tremendous amount of money spent on dealing with crime via our criminal justice system.

In fact, we do have more people incarcerated than any other nation in the world. 500,000 more than our closest competitor China, and they have 10 times our population.

Highest to Lowest - Prison Population Total | World Prison Brief

We have all sorts of courts, police agencies, and support systems set up to deal with crime at all levels from Federal down to the county level in each State.

So I seriously doubt your assertion that we spend more time, efforts, and funding on terrorism than we do on crime.

As that is the case, the rest of your post lacks substance and does not appear to need a response. :shrug:

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

Politicizing a tragedy immediately after the event takes place is dangerous in my opinion because in most instances all of the facts are not immediately available and any policy based on emotion rather than sound logic is bound to have negative consequences.

I agree but it's even more dangerous when you're implicitely pointing the finger at immigrants and saying, "these people should not have been allowed in."

How many people from Uzbekistan were admitted to the U.S.? How many turned into terrorists? That's the rational perspective.

 

[OlNate]

I don't agree that terrorists don't have more impact than organized crime groups in the U.S. Just look at 9/11. 9 people, 4 planes, and they changed the country forever. Plenty of new laws and changes were made in response to those attacks. And then you have the terrorist attacks that have hit Europe, and the massive impact they've had on those countries. Terrorists impact our society greatly.

9/11 was a one off (or appears to be, given the comparative quality and complexity of terrorist attacks in the 16 years since), and the guy that planned it is dead (and his money is no longer available to fund these activities). To get to a good comparison, which I'd keep an open mind while reviewing, you'd need to provide statistics since then, side by side, by organized crime organization kill count vs. "terrorist" kill count. The statistics I've seen paint a pretty clear picture, but maybe I'm missing something.

Yes, plenty of laws were made, and plenty of rights and freedoms surrendered in response to 9/11. I think there's a debate to be had on whether or not that was appropriate, especially given that most of the same people who supported the Patriot Act are the same types to scream about rights and freedoms when it comes to regulating issues that impact far more lives than were lost on 9/11 (obvious one is gun control). I personally am not anti-gun, so I don't support the notion that a few bad apples should result in a restriction or elimination of rights for law abiding citizens, so it should be no surprise that I think the Patriot Act was a snatch and grab on American freedom.

 

[Praxas]

Take it however gets you to sleep at night.
P.S. you're the latter, not the former

Your concession is accepted and you're dismissed for not able to defend your comments with facts.

 

[Carleen]

The bodies aren't even cold yet and Trump is politicizing this. What a disgraceful leader he is.



Trump blames Schumer, immigration policy for Manhattan attack - NY Daily News

Uzbekistan, like Pakistan, is one of our partners in the war against terrorism. There is no rationaltiy to Trump's statement. It's just a disgusting comment that appeals to those who hate Muslim immigrants.

Trump is a disgrace to the office of the presidency. He does not know how to lead a nation and never will.

 

[OlNate]

Apparently you are not that familiar with the American criminal justice system.

There is a tremendous amount of money spent on dealing with crime via our criminal justice system.

In fact, we do have more people incarcerated than any other nation in the world. 500,000 more than our closest competitor China, and they have 10 times our population.

Highest to Lowest - Prison Population Total | World Prison Brief

We have all sorts of courts, police agencies, and support systems set up to deal with crime at all levels from Federal down to the county level in each State.

So I seriously doubt your assertion that we spend more time, efforts, and funding on terrorism than we do on crime.

As that is the case, the rest of your post lacks substance and does not appear to need a response. :shrug:

You're telling me your incarceration budget exceeds your war on terrorism budget? Especially when you take out the cost for non-violent crime?

And ouch on the criticism, I was asking a question and trying to be civil. No need to be douchey, I'm playing nice.

 

[Nap]

I agree but it's even more dangerous when you're implicitely pointing the finger at immigrants and saying, "these people should not have been allowed in."

How many people from Uzbekistan were admitted to the U.S.? How many turned into terrorists? That's the rational perspective.

While I agree with you, there are other rational perspectives. For instance, if there is any potential risk of some being radicalized why should we let any in? While I disagree with the premise because I believe in religious freedom, it is a legitimate question. Take the refugee crisis, we could take in all of the Christians from the middle East to free them from the oppression they face over there and the worry of them becoming radicalized is near 0%. Basically, it is a test of freedom similar to the attacks on freedom of speech. I don't believe in sacrificing principals for added security. We should be accepting and promoting the reformers within the religion if we ever want to see the conflicts end.

 

[TheGoverness]

9/11 was a one off (or appears to be, given the comparative quality and complexity of terrorist attacks in the 16 years since), and the guy that planned it is dead (and his money is no longer available to fund these activities). To get to a good comparison, which I'd keep an open mind while reviewing, you'd need to provide statistics since then, side by side, by organized crime organization kill count vs. "terrorist" kill count. The statistics I've seen paint a pretty clear picture, but maybe I'm missing something.

I'm not talking about comparing casualties, I'm talking about societal impact.

These incidents obviously do have significant impact, as we always have a giant debate over what should be done in response to them. This is what Trump's silly travel ban is influenced by. This is what the terrorists are looking for, to instill fear in the populace. They want us to be scared. My opinion is, that we should just remain unfazed in the wake of these attacks, and to not sacrifice more liberties in the name of security. But that's just me.

Yes, plenty of laws were made, and plenty of rights and freedoms surrendered in response to 9/11. I think there's a debate to be had on whether or not that was appropriate, especially given that most of the same people who supported the Patriot Act are the same types to scream about rights and freedoms when it comes to regulating issues that impact far more lives than were lost on 9/11 (obvious one is gun control). I personally am not anti-gun, so I don't support the notion that a few bad apples should result in a restriction or elimination of rights for law abiding citizens, so it should be no surprise that I think the Patriot Act was a snatch and grab on American freedom.

I don't like the Patriot Act, either.