• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump commutes sentence of longtime adviser Roger Stone


Would it be a crime to pardon someone who was convicted of obstructing an investigation which did not involve a crime and which had no suspects? No, don't be silly.

Help remove stupidity and partisanship from corrupting the justice system. Vote republican in 2020.
 
Democrats who cannot see that the Stone case was a corrupt partisan hit job are blind or stupid. President Trump did the right thing. Thank God.

Help purge partisan corruption from American law and order. Vote republican in 2020.

Stone broke the law and was convicted by a jury of his peers. There is no arguing that fact, irrespective of your conspiracy theory. Oh, and Trump has also broken the law more than once. Birds of a feather?
 
Legal experts have pointed out that the prosecution of Stone involved prosecutorial misconduct and highly partisan bias on the part of the prosecutor and jury. The case should have been thrown out before it ended for that reason.

Can you do this community a favor and instead of writing "legal experts have pointed out" actually show us links and quotes from your legal experts? I ask because I consider what you wrote to be untrue. To all of you who make unsubstantiated claims and lie to us saying they're facts why do you not tell the truth? Why do you believe lies that have no basis in facts?
 
Mueller is a dummass partisan hack. He spent years trying to frame Trump for a crime which did not exist and nobody committed. He charged Stone for obstructing his dummass investigation into a crime that did not exist and nobody committed. His word is crap. Of course he wants to support the lying accusations he leveled against innocent republicans in his hateful illegitimate drive to take down President Trump. To hell with all the dogs and their sedition and devotion to the crooked democrat party at the expense of truth and righteousness in justice and judgment.
Mueller is a lifelong Republican who was Director of the FBI under GOP and Democratic Presidents. His career is distinguished and throughout the investigation he did not allow any leaks to occur. He also was prevented from receiving thousands of documents from the Trump Administration who stonewalled the entire process. The ***** Trump refused to testify though, like he did with his taxes, kept saying he has no problem testifying but never did. You're making accusations that are falsehoods, they're not true and you do not show any evidence to support any of your made up accusations.
 
If you had been paying attention you would have noticed that Obama officials hid evidence that foreigners were working the 2016 election in Hillary's favor.
Please show us links from almost anywhere (not conspiracy theory idiots) the "evidence" you claim exists that support the claim you're making. Is it too much to ask you to not post falsehoods and instead simply provide a link that says what you write, please?
 
Barr said that Mueller said that there was insufficient evidence to say that Trump conspired.
Mueller said there was insufficient evidence to say that Trump conspired.
From Time Mag:
Myth: Mueller found “no collusion.”

Response: Mueller spent almost 200 pages describing “numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign.” He found that “a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.” He also found that “a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations” against the Clinton campaign and then released stolen documents.

While Mueller was unable to establish a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians involved in this activity, he made it clear that “[a] statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts.” In fact, Mueller also wrote that the “investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.”

To find conspiracy, a prosecutor must establish beyond a reasonable doubt the elements of the crime: an agreement between at least two people, to commit a criminal offense and an overt act in furtherance of that agreement. One of the underlying criminal offenses that Mueller reviewed for conspiracy was campaign-finance violations. Mueller found that Trump campaign members Donald Trump Jr., Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner met with Russian nationals in Trump Tower in New York June 2016 for the purpose of receiving disparaging information about Clinton as part of “Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” according to an email message arranging the meeting. This meeting did not amount to a criminal offense, in part, because Mueller was unable to establish “willfulness,” that is, that the participants knew that their conduct was illegal. Mueller was also unable to conclude that the information was a “thing of value” that exceeded $25,000, the requirement for campaign finance to be a felony, as opposed to a civil violation of law. But the fact that the conduct did not technically amount to conspiracy does not mean that it was acceptable. Trump campaign members welcomed foreign influence into our election and then compromised themselves with the Russian government by covering it up.


Barr said that Mueller said he could exonerate Trump for obstruction.
Mueller said that he could not exonerate Trump for obstruction.

Barr accurately described what Mueller reported.
Barr DID NOT accurately describe what Mueller reported. Mueller specifically stated Mueller stated, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.” Mueller declined to make a “traditional prosecution decision” about obstruction of justice. Because he was bound by the Department of Justice policy that a sitting president cannot be charged with a crime, he did not even attempt to reach a legal conclusion about the facts. Instead, he undertook to “preserve the evidence when memories were fresh and documentary materials were available,” because a president can be charged after he leaves office. In fact, out of an abundance of fairness, Mueller thought that it would be improper to even accuse Trump of committing a crime so as not to “preempt constitutional processes for addressing presidential misconduct,” meaning impeachment.


We understand why Trump is so inclined to steal the 2020 election, he can be charged with obstruction of justice when he loses.
 
Americans would have to be really stupid to blame the shutdowns and economic depression on Trump.

This may have been true prior to the recent dramatic rise in Covid-19 cases. Everything that happens from now on, including the failed re-opening of the economy, will be a direct consequence of Trump's lack of action and the propaganda put to work in support of Trump's re-election that systematically downplayed the threat of Covid-19.
 
I suspect there is coming a landslide of stupidity as more Americans turn away from God toward the pleasures of sin.

Help keep God in God Bless America. Vote republican in 2020.

There is no 'god', and 'sin' is fun, as you recognise. You should try it sometime. You'll enjoy it even more once the realisation dawns that you've been conned by the 'god' rubbish you've been fed. But by all means live a life of misery, guilt and false hope that there's a 'heaven' waiting for you. How sad that must be...
 
Love it.

Lefts salty tears taste sooooo good.

Personally, I enjoy watching right wingers abandon everything they pretend to believe in, and then having to justify it with flimsy garbage like this.
 
Would it be a crime to pardon someone who was convicted of obstructing an investigation which did not involve a crime and which had no suspects? No, don't be silly.

Help remove stupidity and partisanship from corrupting the justice system. Vote republican in 2020.

Obstruction is a crime in itself, lying to Congress is a crime, witness tampering is a crime. Why do you insist on pretending they aren't criminal offences?
 
Last edited:
Obstruction is a crime in itself, lying to Congress is a crime, witness tampering is a crime. Why do you insist on pretending they aren't criminal offences?

They're not pretending. They just don't care. Trump supporters are not good people.
 
This isn't about his personality. Why are you talking about his personality?

This isn't about Trump being rude or being a jerk.

There are some things a person cannot do, okay?

This is like complaining about a murderer's personality. Well, of course, in the grand scheme of things nobody cares that some particular murderer has an unpleasant personality. What matters is that the murderer killed someone.

Here, too, Trump's personal characteristics are largely irrelevant. What matters is the fact that he engaged in a criminal act which is also an act of great public corruption.

You brought up personal reasons, not me. I don't know how it's possible to separate personal from personality, but I'm sure you'll tell me.

And Trump as president has the power to pardon and commute. Trump believes Stone was wrongly convicted. It's as simple as that. Stone remains convicted. Only his prison time was eliminated with the commutation.

This is a tempest in a teapot.
 
When Trump 1st got into politics I thought, why? A guy with his background, his cons, his bankruptcies and dirty dealings? And all the enemies he made in NY and NJ...Why would he want all that put up front, all his dirty laundry aired for all to see?

So he gets elected, his far right base of evangelicals and racists don't care about his dirty dealing then, or now.. So he's been getting away with making the 'swamp; even swampier. AND making a TON of new enemies.

Whenever he leaves office he will have no friends left, which means HIM and HIS FAMILY will be racked over the coals... I wouldn't be surprised if they all spend time in jail.
 
No, Trump is not God. In America the Constitution rules over men, even those who pervert justice and judgment for crooked reasons.

Help rid our judicial system of crooked partisan bias. Vote republican in 2020.

Well stop acting like you think he is God then.
 
Legal experts have pointed out that the prosecution of Stone involved prosecutorial misconduct and highly partisan bias on the part of the prosecutor and jury. The case should have been thrown out before it ended for that reason.

Help restore honesty and integrity to our justice processes. Vote republican in 2020.

legal experts aren't the jury listening to the evidence.
 
And conservatives continue their long lasting loving affair with treasonists.

 
Lt. col Alexander Vindman, honorable soldier, is denied promotion and driven to retire by a sustained attack on him by a administration seeking to punish him for telling the truth.

And yet this same administration commutes the sentence of a convicted criminal like Roger stone because he remained a loyal political lapdog.
 
You brought up personal reasons, not me. I don't know how it's possible to separate personal from personality, but I'm sure you'll tell me.

I don't quite understand your argument then. Are you trying to suggest that if a President engages in corrupt actions for some sort of personal benefit that those specific acts of corruption are somehow less important?

The only thing I can gather from your comments is that you do not recognize acts of public corruption as being illegal acts.

And Trump as president has the power to pardon and commute. Trump believes Stone was wrongly convicted. It's as simple as that.

Well, no. It's not as simple as that when there's evidence Trump commuted Stone's sentence to reward him for not cooperating with investigators against Trump.

The President has the power to pardon and commute, but there is a limitation on this power. The President does not have the power to pardon and commute for corrupt purposes. The President must at all times act in accordance with the Rule of Law.

This is a tempest in a teapot.

This is only a tempest in a teapot for those who do not believe in the Rule of Law and lack a moral compass.

Take your corruption elsewhere. It does not belong in our Republic.
 
You brought up personal reasons, not me. I don't know how it's possible to separate personal from personality, but I'm sure you'll tell me.

And Trump as president has the power to pardon and commute. Trump believes Stone was wrongly convicted. It's as simple as that. Stone remains convicted. Only his prison time was eliminated with the commutation.

This is a tempest in a teapot.

If Trump believed he was wrongfully convicted, it would be a pardon instead of a commutation.

Furthermore, I find it curious that the people who claim to be for "small government" so often go with the explanation "government has power to do X, therefore X was good."
 
Mueller most likely prefers being alive.

Maybe.

2009: Mueller (FBI Director, 2001-2013) placed Semion Mogilevich, a Russian kingpin mob boss, on the FBI's Top Wanted in 2009. He is heavily involved with weapons trafficking, contract murders, extortion, drug trafficking, and prostitution on an international scale. The FBI described Mogilevich as "the most dangerous mobster in the world and that if he’s caught in any country with a U.S. extradition treaty, they could send him here."

2015: James Comey (FBI Director, 2013-2017) removed Semion Mogilevich from the list in 2015. The FBI explained that this was because Mogilevich lived in Russia, a country with no U.S. extradition treaty. Yet, this was the understood case when he was placed on the list in the first place. Explanation ends, but Trump enters the race in 2015.

** Many of the Russian mobsters that took up residence in condos in Trump Tower in the 1980s were known associates of Mogilevich, who had close ties to Putin as far back as the early 1990s. It is also well known that Trump's businesses (some bankrupted) have included Russian "financiers" who most likely used his businesses as a laundering source. After Trump lost billions of dollars in his Atlantic City casino developments, it was Russian finance that helped get rich again with condo projects. "Don't look at my tax returns!" Only with such close relationships with oligarchs would Trump send his children to Russia to learn, asking Felix Sater, a convicted Russian-American mobster who was an adviser to Trump businesses, to accompany them. BUT this is all reported as legal. Still, very worthy of a closer look the moment we discovered that Russia had an obvious interest in helping Trump get elected to the American presidency in 2016.

2017: Comey, after being fired by Trump, declared that Trump had asked him to end the FBI's investigation into Michael Flynn, who not only had a four year relationship with the Russian ambassador, Sergey Kislyak, but served as a go-between for the Trump campaign and Russian operatives, which continued after Trump was elected. Trump would go on to publicly declare that Russia is innocent (against even American intelligence findings), after telling American note takers to stay out of the room where he and Putin had a private meeting.

In the meantime, Barr also went ahead and mischaracterized the summary and selectively redacted portions of the Mueller report and has intervened in the guilty convictions and sentences of former Trump advisors Roger Stone and Flynn, both of whom lied to the FBI and tried to thwart the Mueller investigation into Russia's 2016 game. Barr, an outspoken political player of radical right-wing politics, has clearly been protecting and working for Trump this whole time.


** Along the way we have the Bill Clinton/Trump/Epstein relationships that involve political donations and social parties. Epstein, who was arrested in July 2019 on federal charges for the sex trafficking of minors in Florida and New York, also had a long relationship with Russian oligarchs. Then Epstein simply dies in a jail cell in August with U.S. Attorney General William Barr calling it an apparent suicide...never mind the multiple breaks in his neck. But since his death precluded the possibility of pursuing criminal charges, a judge dismissed all criminal charges that very month, killing any investigation into Clinton/Trump private affairs that were probably forthcoming. Nevertheless, Epstein had a decades-long association with Ghislaine Maxwell, who has faced persistent allegations of procuring and sexually trafficking underage girls for Epstein. Epstein then provided others. Maxwell was arrested by the FBI on July 2, 2020. Standby for another "suicide." Trump's use of his fan base's "lock her up" rally cry in 2016 turned to "I'm not interested" as soon as he was elected. Despite the jabs back and forth, Hillary Clinton and Trump have been shallow in their abrasions, with Bill largely silent, seemingly not wanting to open the hole too wide.





Yeah...nothing to see here at all folks. After all, Mueller found "nothing." Don't concern yourselves with why Trump is so closely guarding something as simple as tax returns. Trump is just a big ole' victim of circumstance, who hasn't clearly created his own personal deep state to get away with autocratic behavior, hiding his past, and treachery, while whining about deep states. Never mind that Trump would be emboldened enough to later get caught actually asking another foreign government (through a private lawyer) to interfere with another American election, for which his loyalists excused and even cheered.

Clearly, this is a matter for historians to piece together as Russian documents become public, his loyalist appointees are removed, and Trump's mountain of non-disclosure agreements no longer protect him.
 
Last edited:
Stone broke the law and was convicted by a jury of his peers. There is no arguing that fact, irrespective of your conspiracy theory. Oh, and Trump has also broken the law more than once. Birds of a feather?

Democrats claim Stone obstructed their dummass fake investigation in which there was no crime and no criminals. That was stupid.

Help stop political crooks from perverting laws in order to unjustly frame their enemies for crimes they did not commit. Vote republican in 2020.
 
Can you do this community a favor and instead of writing "legal experts have pointed out" actually show us links and quotes from your legal experts? I ask because I consider what you wrote to be untrue. To all of you who make unsubstantiated claims and lie to us saying they're facts why do you not tell the truth? Why do you believe lies that have no basis in facts?

Here are facts:

Prosecutorial Misconduct Emerges In Roger Stone's Trial - Roger Stone | Stone Cold Truth

Kravis’s misconduct in Roger Stone’s trial is even more shocking. Stone’s attorneys were successful in getting the government to admit that the only “evidence” they had that Russian intelligence agents had computer hacked the Democratic National Committee was a redacted draft report from the Democratic aligned IT Firm Crowdstrike and that the FBI had never actually examined the DNC servers.
When this news hit the media like a bombshell out-of-control left wing Judge Amy Berman Jackson tightened the unconstitutional gag order on Roger Stone to prevent him from discussing the shocking revelation and Kravis filed a sur reply with the court falsely claiming that the US Government and the Mueller investigation had additional evidence to bolster their claim that the Russians hacked the DNC. Read here.



Help stop democrat perversion of justice and judgment. Vote republican in 2020.
 
Back
Top Bottom