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Top GOPer: "NO evidence of Whitehouse F&F cover-up"

Thunder

Thunder

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Issa: No evidence so far of White House cover-up - Yahoo! News

if there is no evidence of a cover-up, then what the hell is this all about?

I don't understand this whole issue. The DEA & ATF used gun sales to hopefully track drug king-pins, and some guns unfortunately were used to kill American LEOs. That wasn't the intention of the program..so what did they do wrong?
 
Not tracking the guns and loosing them all thats where it went wrong.
 
Thunder said:
Issa: No evidence so far of White House cover-up - Yahoo! News

if there is no evidence of a cover-up, then what the hell is this all about?

I don't understand this whole issue. The DEA & ATF used gun sales to hopefully track drug king-pins, and some guns unfortunately were used to kill American LEOs. That wasn't the intention of the program..so what did they do wrong?
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So they sold guns to track, and then lost track of them, and then the guns were used against US officers. What did they do wrong? Aren't you the one running off at the mouth about gun control and how guns cause this and that and blah blah blah. And now here we see reckless and stupid behavior by our government which put our own people at risk, and it's "oh well" for you?

The GOP will not seriously pursue this matter either. They may use it for some talking points and bitching, but that's going to be it. Both sides know that the other is as corrupt as they are and if they ever were to truly push for accountability, they'd all be in deep ****.
 
Thunder said:
Issa: No evidence so far of White House cover-up - Yahoo! News

if there is no evidence of a cover-up, then what the hell is this all about?

I don't understand this whole issue. The DEA & ATF used gun sales to hopefully track drug king-pins, and some guns unfortunately were used to kill American LEOs. That wasn't the intention of the program..so what did they do wrong?
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The whole issue is WHO ordered F&F and WHY. It is not like VERY similar things were tried and failed before, but none on the scale of F&F with thousands of guns "walking" all at once. The offical Holder line WAS that he did not know about it, and AS SOON AS he became aware of it, he cancelled it. That has been PROVEN false, so the question remains WHO ordered F&F and WHY; if there is no cover up, then it should be EASY to answer those two simple questions, yet they remain "mysteries" after 18 months. Hmm...
 
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Guess folks missed where it says, "so far" in that headline. And if the WH believes that will hold true, then they should have no problem releasing the docs and end their obstruction.
 
Thunder said:
Issa: No evidence so far of White House cover-up - Yahoo! News if there is no evidence of a cover-up, then what the hell is this all about? I don't understand this whole issue. The DEA & ATF used gun sales to hopefully track drug king-pins, and some guns unfortunately were used to kill American LEOs. That wasn't the intention of the program..so what did they do wrong?
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Holder's only turned over a tiny portion of the documents he's suppose to.

Criminally negligent manslaughter Criminally negligent manslaughter is variously referred to as criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in England and Wales. In Scotland and some Commonwealth of Nations jurisdictions the offense of culpable homicide might apply. It occurs where death results from serious negligence, or, in some jurisdictions, serious recklessness. A high degree of negligence is required to warrant criminal liability. A related concept is that of willful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable. Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death. The existence of the duty is essential because the law does not impose criminal liability for a failure to act unless a specific duty is owed to the victim.

Manslaughter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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As Law Enforcement officials, they had a "duty to act" as soon as they started losing track of the Assault Rifles in question. Common sense and duty to law enforcement dictates once they lost track of guns, shut the program down. They didn't do that and 2 American Law Enforcement Agents are dead along with 21 Mexican citizens. Law Enforcement Officers have a duty to uphold the law and preserve lives of the innocent.

A related concept is that of willful blindness, which is where a defendant intentionally puts himself in a position where he will be unaware of facts which would render him liable. and Criminally negligent manslaughter occurs where there is an omission to act when there is a duty to do so, or a failure to perform a duty owed, which leads to a death..

Sorry my friends, as soon as they started to lose track of the guns the operation should have been shut down immediately, it was an "omission to act" by Law Enforcement Officials who had a duty to do so.
 
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why is it that the reich wing, which objects to the presence of gun restrictions in the USA, is so opposed to the absence of gun restrictions in mexico?
 
Ikari said:
So they sold guns to track, and then lost track of them, and then the guns were used against US officers. What did they do wrong? Aren't you the one running off at the mouth about gun control and how guns cause this and that and blah blah blah.....
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so you're saying you want firearm sales to be tracked?
 
What is it that must be hidden at this point? Really, what could be worse than 200+ dead Mexicans, a dead border agent, and F&F weapons showing up at crime scenes stateside?

Three and a half years before he invoked executive privilege in refusing to hand over to Congress internal Justice Department documents about Operation Fast and Furious--and just eight days before his inauguration--President-elect Barack Obama met with Mexican President Calderon over lunch at the Mexican Cultural Institute in Washington, D.C., and “pledged” that he would take action aimed at stopping the flow of guns into that country from the United States.
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“Well, as President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons,” Holder said. “I think that will have a positive impact in Mexico, at a minimum.”
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Obama Made Pre-Inaugural

Who really believes that some guy at the ATF could authorize an operation which involves the intentional transport of assault weapons across the border of another sovereign nation? IMO, it goes straight to the top. If Obama didn't give his nod of approval, he must at least known about it. Again, you have to wonder what's so bad about these documents which prompted executive privilege?
 
Thunder said:
so you're saying you want firearm sales to be tracked?
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I'd rather the government not sell them to shady foreigners in some doomed attempt to find gun and drug traffickers.
 
justabubba said:
why is it that the reich wing, which objects to the presence of gun restrictions in the USA, is so opposed to the absence of gun restrictions in mexico?
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Gun laws are actually stricter in Mexico than the US. That is why cartels try to smuggle them from the US.
 
clownboy said:
Guess folks missed where it says, "so far" in that headline. And if the WH believes that will hold true, then they should have no problem releasing the docs and end their obstruction.
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Agreed. This powder keg will blow up eventually. If Obama had nothing to do with it, he'd fire Holder immediately and suspend the rest involved, then order the replacements to turn over everything they have to the oversight committee. That would be the transparency he talked about while running for President. Sadly we are getting more secrecy than Nixon and Bush put together. The campaign ads in Sept and October with Jamie Zapata and Brian Terry family photos fading into Holder's testimony and his conflicting statements then finally Obama expressing his continued support for Holder will be devastating.
 
winston53660 said:
Gun laws are actually stricter in Mexico than the US. That is why cartels try to smuggle them from the US.
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i realize that. had to recently bribe my bro in law out of jail and then arrange for him to flee mexico/authorities to avoid his residing long term in a prison south of the border for illegal weapon possession

but your comment still does not address the disconnect i was seeking to understand. why are reich wingers opposed to the presence of gun control in the USA but are simultaneously so concerned about the absence of gun control in the fast and furious situation in mexico
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Not tracking the guns and loosing them all thats where it went wrong.
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On what planet is it a smart to idea to hand fully functional weapons to thugs, especially thugs in a country that the US has no jurisdiction in? Most people with at least an ounce of common sense would say thats retarded or thats ****en stupid. We wouldn't give nukes to terrorists in a country the US has no jurisdiction in and say oh were going to try to track where the nukes are going in order to nail weapons dealers. What went wrong is thinking its a smart idea to hand weapons to thugs.
 
jamesrage said:
On what planet is it a smart to idea to hand fully functional weapons to thugs, especially thugs in a country that the US has no jurisdiction in? Most people with at least an ounce of common sense would say thats retarded or thats ****en stupid. We wouldn't give nukes to terrorists in a country the US has no jurisdiction in and say oh were going to try to track where the nukes are going in order to nail weapons dealers. What went wrong is thinking its a smart idea to hand weapons to thugs.
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I agree its stupid.
But weve done it many time. EX: contras in Nicaragua
 
How is it that Holder gets to "retract" 2 lies that he got caught telling Congress while simultaneously forcing Roger Clemens to spend a personal fortune defending himself against the Justice Department's prosecution for the very same charge?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Not tracking the guns and loosing them all thats where it went wrong.
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Actually it became criminal when they failed to stop the program and 2 American Law Enforcement Agents died.
 
Just because it wasn't covered up doesn't mean someone doesn't deserve to get canned over that insanity.
 
Ikari said:
I'd rather the government not sell them to shady foreigners in some doomed attempt to find gun and drug traffickers.
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Government weapons sales involve lot bigger things than assault rifles. Fast & Furious involved privately-owned gun stores in the three border states of Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.

How is the seller of a firearm to determine who is and who isn't "shady foreigners"?
 
StillBallin75 said:
Ultimately, bureaucratic incompetence.
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I beg to disagree. You do NOT cover up incompetence, you loudly announce that you have found it, removed it and have taken action to prevent it in the future, just like the $1 million GSA Las Vegas bash, that "scandal" came and went in a flash, as did Solyndra. This is MUCH MORE LIKELY to protect an actual PLAN to let those guns walk. It takes a seriously well coordinated effort to get 2,000 guns to "walk" from multiple locations in multiple states, in a very short amount of time. Losing track of a batch of 50 here, or even 100 there is bad, but excusable as an "accident" or "lapse in judgement". It would be FAR too easy to simply offer up "the guy" that messed up in those cases, however if ALL (or most) involved were told to let them walk, then that poses a SERIOUS problem, that requires a complete cover up, just like we are seeing.
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
I beg to disagree. You do NOT cover up incompetence, you loudly announce that you have found it, removed it and have taken action to prevent it in the future
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Yeah, that's probably why the head of ATF and the AUSA who oversaw the operation got reasigned ... like ... a year ago. There's an ongoing internal investigation that should be allowed to proceed without the political opera that Issa is putting on.
 
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