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This is what has, in the wake of recent scandals, changed regarding blackface and perceptions of it

You laid out nothing. You haven’t communicated how anyone was harmed by the year book picture 30 years ago


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Because it didnt end there. Its like asking how is anyone today harmed by the Holocaust? Because those same issues never went away. They may have gone underground but are still there.
 
Birds of a feather flock together...and so do people of most races. I think that part is natural, what's not natural is for a person to 'dislike' another because of their skin color only. Slavery is a part of america and blatant racism was alive and well into the sixties. I don't think things really started changing until vietnam when many young men from different backgrounds found themselves in a foreign jungle all trying their best to stay alive and for most color at that point didn't matter. I think it progressed from there and thankfully we white people are finally owning up to the fact that none of us has any idea of what it is to be black in america, and it's not great or equal. Slowly but surely things are changing. For the people of the south, all those civil war 'hero' statues should be removed and replaced by prominent blacks that helped us start to get over our national guilt of slavery.
 
Because it didnt end there. Its like asking how is anyone today harmed by the Holocaust? Because those same issues never went away. They may have gone underground but are still there.

Because there are survivors who were brutally treated and tortured today.

umm, yeah the National Socialist Workers Party actually did go away.
 
Wow...

Baby, racism and its effects aren't only about victimization. It's every bit as much about trust.

Trust disappeared when, in the span of about a day, the "story" went from apologizing for being in the racist photo on his yearbook page to gosh I don't who was in that racist photo or how it possibly could have gotten on the yearbook page.
 
My fraternity didn't make me don blackface. Just drink a lot of red dog beer, and eat more than a few raw eggs. A few other things....some dangerous but fun. But no black face. Not sure the purpose of that.
 
My fraternity didn't make me don blackface. Just drink a lot of red dog beer, and eat more than a few raw eggs. A few other things....some dangerous but fun. But no black face. Not sure the purpose of that.

All of that is going away, initiation rites are not going to be allowed in UTOPIA.
 
They do it in the name of tradition. Especially big private colleges or the Ivies. Its a lot of pressure if your dad went there and then you do and are expected to be in his shadow. It leads to a lot of bad decisions. What gets me is the upper admin must know this as many went there too. Yet its allowed to continue.

My experience as a three generation legacy suggests you're partly right and partly not.
  • All the men on Dad's side of the family went to the same boarding school, and I wasn't the only one who was. The "legacy" thing wasn't so much a big deal among the students there. The teachers, the coaches especially, made more of it than did my classmates. They thought I was supposed to be total jock as was my dad. I liked sports, but being on a varsity squad wasn't a priority I had.

    There were some instances when the Black guy in my class "caught it," but he was my friend and we studied together, so I stood up for him when I could. That's not to say I didn't laugh at some of the insensitive so-called "jokes" made at his expense. That said, he had the balls, and gave enough of a damn about me, to lay into me when he felt I'd wronged him, when I crossed the line. By the time we graduated, we were very good friends, and we remain so even now.
  • I went to the same college Dad and a slew of my male forebears did. I was a legacy too at one of the clubs. That was a bit different. They asked me to do some silly stuff I didn't want to do; however, by then I'd figured out that because of my legacy status and some other qualities, they weren't going to not admit me. It didn't take long for them to figure out my buttons could be pushed, but only so far.

    I think, in part, I learned about standing up for myself from my Black friend in high school. Sure, my folks also instilled that sensibility, but I don't think it was until my final few years in high school that I obtained a first-hand sense of what it meant do so, and do it without taking matters to a physical level. In that regard, my friend was far more a man than I at the time; he arrived at school knowing he was going to "catch it" and that if he didn't ably and aptly stick up for himself and command respect from the rest of us, there was no way he'd get anyone else to do it for him or help him do so.

Red:
One thing to keep in mind is that many fraternal organizations aren't actually part of the school with which they're associated. Yes, there's a relationship there, but the school itself often has no actual authority over the fraternities/sororities and certain social clubs. Sometimes the most a school's administration can do is proscribe the use of the school's name in association with the club's activities, disavow the organization/chapter and whatnot. But if the organization and the school are distinct entities in law, there's not much else the school can do.
 
Trust disappeared when, in the span of about a day, the "story" went from apologizing for being in the racist photo on his yearbook page to gosh I don't who was in that racist photo or how it possibly could have gotten on the yearbook page.

Well, yes, that's about what happened.

Of course, that's not the only way to lose others' trust, but it's certainly a way.
 
I also have to say that there is a mob mentality, so to speak in many of these situations. For example, college fraternities often have donned blackface or did questionable stunts for pledging. You either do it or dont get in. Now sure some kids are brave and say "screw that" but for others its peer pressure. Not sure if the VA cases are like this but I have seen it happen. We recently had racist incidents at a local college and it was due to "pledge week." The kids felt they had to.

I tried to point out that it was something of a rite of passage up until just a couple of decades ago and people were nonplussed.
It was TOTALLY a frat boy rite of passage, a thing you did to curry favor with the BMOC's.

Back in the segregationist days, the Southern Democrats did it. When they all became Southern Republicans, THEY would do it...if not for the yearbook then just for the benefit of their peers. It was something "polite people" did not talk about but it went on even after they were aware that it was not a kosher thing to do.

The Dinesh D'Souza revisionists are so frightened of their past that they think it is possible to simply rewrite history, and they think that they can get away with it. But long after people my age who witnessed it firsthand are dead and buried, the truth will out because there simply isn't enough Charmin in the entire galaxy to paper over the bovine excrement or the stench of lies.

Virginia was "The Capital of the Confederacy" and confederates of the past AND present understood what blackface was all about.
They just did it anyway, and Democrats of today (since the Civil Rights era) are not the Democrats of 1860.
 
I tried to point out that it was something of a rite of passage up until just a couple of decades ago and people were nonplussed.
It was TOTALLY a frat boy rite of passage, a thing you did to curry favor with the BMOC's.

Back in the segregationist days, the Southern Democrats did it. When they all became Southern Republicans, THEY would do it...if not for the yearbook then just for the benefit of their peers. It was something "polite people" did not talk about but it went on even after they were aware that it was not a kosher thing to do.

The Dinesh D'Souza revisionists are so frightened of their past that they think it is possible to simply rewrite history, and they think that they can get away with it. But long after people my age who witnessed it firsthand are dead and buried, the truth will out because there simply isn't enough Charmin in the entire galaxy to paper over the bovine excrement or the stench of lies.

Virginia was "The Capital of the Confederacy" and confederates of the past AND present understood what blackface was all about.
They just did it anyway, and Democrats of today (since the Civil Rights era) are not the Democrats of 1860.

It went on even after they were aware that it was not a kosher thing to do.
This ^^ is what destroys trust. This ^^ is what strains or prevents one from

It's one thing when a person acts and truly doesn't know any better....But what sort of adult is or ever was truly that naive?

People talk about Southern pride, and they want to retain statues of Confederates, maintain the Confederate names given to bridges, buildings and schools. They claim that by keeping those names and sculptures in prominent places, it abets our learning about and reminding us of the degeneracy of our Confederate past, something they allege, disingenuously IMO, but that's another matter, should not be forgotten.

Well, okay, tell me, how effectively did those place names and statues remind a 25 year-old med school student that donning blackface evoked the legacy of the "Jim Crow" and slave eras? Did those names and images remind a collegian of the reprehensibility of mockingly aping someone else by donning blackface makeup that perpetuates and approbates the stereotyping of a whole race of people as clowns? Did those statues remind anyone to respect others, regardless of their race or skin tone? Hell, no!

So what now stares us in the face is that a whole lotta folks who engaged in unequivocally racist acts would now have us think they have evolved. Well, maybe some have, maybe many have. The question is how the hell are we supposed to know? It's not as though "I'm not a racist/bigot" is a refrain that racists and non-racists don't both utter; thus attestations alone are inherently unconvincing.

These aren't people who ages ago confessed their transgressions and have, for the overwhelming majority of time between then and now, developed an demonstrably, unquestionably unblemished record whereby they've shown they have indeed divested themselves of the notions that allowed them to don blackface or worse regalia. These people hid their pasts from us, and proceeded to bid us to invest them with the public trust.

Can one prove one isn't a racist? Probably not; few and far between, if at all extant, are the negatives that can be proven. One can, however, behave concomitantly with respecting equally among all people and all individuals. One can demonstrate that one has empathy for and has acted to abate incidences and effects of inequitable treatment and perceptions, and one can stand up and rail against manifestations of such. Of course, if one is committed to being a racist, well, one probably cannot, or at least not successfully, do those things. But, for the sake one one's country, I think one is duty bound at least to try with all one's might, for if the racial discord we today face isn't rectified, it's just a matter of time before we again sunder our nation. And that's something that, frankly, nobody wants.
 
This ^^ is what destroys trust. This ^^ is what strains or prevents one from

It's one thing when a person acts and truly doesn't know any better....But what sort of adult is or ever was truly that naive?

People talk about Southern pride, and they ....SNIP

I'll be real honest...at this point, at this juncture, I just don't even give a **** anymore.
In fact, I just don't even give a **** about anybody on the alt-right anymore at all.
The conservatives, the real ones, they know who they are, everyone else worth a **** knows who they are, I am happy to talk to them.

Eighty percent of the people on this thread and the threads of the last few weeks are trolling. They post to "stick it to the libtards" and nothing more.
They belong to three or four other forums and post the same nonsense on ALL of them, verbatim.
They do the same thing over on those forums as they do here.
I don't give a **** and I'm just not interested in talking to them anymore.

A few years ago I got taken to task because of my ignore list.
It's so funny, I was told that I was a partisan hack because I was only blocking mostly people on the right.
So for the last year and a half or even two years I've kept that list down to four names, maybe five.

I'm going back to my old habits. DP will be a lot more fun if I see posts from people who are actually interested in discussions and sharing opinions.
It's polluted so if I don't filter the water, it's going to make me sick.

I don't have to only see LIBERALS on my feed, I want to see conservatives too, but I am just not even interested in duking it out with idiots that live under a bridge.
 
But, for the sake one one's country, I think one is duty bound at least to try with all one's might, for if the racial discord we today face isn't rectified, it's just a matter of time before we again sunder our nation. And that's something that, frankly, nobody wants.


I believe that some people DO want to peacefully "sunder" the United States of America as the only practical solution to this whole unpleasantness.
 
Amazing how places of higher learning go so low with the dumb sometimes.


It's not amazing at all. It's, in substance, not all that different than the way politics work.


I agree to the basic premise of your assertion, but politics, the realm of, does not even promote the pretense of being any such "institution of higher learning" as is present with collegiate atmospheres.

Red:
??? Just what do you think is the "basic premise of my assertion?"
 
Red:
??? Just what do you think is the "basic premise of my assertion?"

The way, in substance, that tradition works in politics as in the collegiate arena?

Was that not your premise? If not then I beg your forgiveness.
 
The way, in substance, that tradition works in politics as in the collegiate arena?

Was that not your premise? If not then I beg your forgiveness.
Red:
No, that wasn't what I had in mind.

I had in mind the influence of money in the decision making of administrators whereat fraternities fall under the span of control the university/college has. The article to which I linked, though it did talk about tradition, was mainly about how money -- in particular alumni donations, a good share of which comes from folks who belonged to "Greek letter" organizations -- drives the permissiveness college/university administrators exhibit in response to much actual or apparent misdeeds fraternity/sorority members commit.

Money's influence, the influence wielders of money have, works no differently on college campuses than it does in politics.

You don't need to apologize, for you didn't wrong or aspese me. It's nice of you to apologize, however.
 
Red:
No, that wasn't what I had in mind.

I had in mind the influence of money in the decision making of administrators whereat fraternities fall under the span of control the university/college has. The article to which I linked, though it did talk about tradition, was mainly about how money -- in particular alumni donations, a good share of which comes from folks who belonged to "Greek letter" organizations -- drives the permissiveness college/university administrators exhibit in response to much actual or apparent misdeeds fraternity/sorority members commit.

Money's influence, the influence wielders of money have, works no differently on college campuses than it does in politics.

You don't need to apologize, for you didn't wrong or aspese me. It's nice of you to apologize, however.

Ah! Follow the monetary influence and not the intellectual influence.

OK.
 
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