This is a coup: Protests Engulf Wisconsin Capitol as Outgoing Scott Walker and GOP Move to Cripple D

[MSgt]

That's just your pathetic defense. Because in your mind, Republicans are never wrong.

He obviously has no defense, which is why his posts are as obtuse as possible.

 

[ataraxia]

If I were prone to crying, whining, and losing my mind, I'd be a Democrat.

Republicans did it for 8 years straight with Obama.

 

[Kobie]

The only thing profoundly idiotic is people like you who want to subvert democracy and claim it's the other guys doing it.

Okay, pal.

Your level of projection is approaching IMAX.

 

[Taylor]

What's hurting them is that they chose long ago to represent their own radical power rather than actually representing Americans. As the demographics changed, they found themselves having to cheat and distort their way past the Constitution, which is more of an inconvenient rag now. And thanks to manipulating right-wing media outlets like Fox News, the generally uneducated and easily manipulated conservative constituent actually believes that he stands for the Constitution, despite currently ****ting all over just about every single norm that has been established since it's inception.

Democracy is not protected because of a constitutions. History is quite clear on this. Democracy is protected because those charged to care about the spirit of a Constitution comes before all else. Find that in the GOP or it's blind fanatics these days.

Let's see... you're whine and whimper about the "generally uneducated conservative" while including in your diatribe such gems as "a constitutions," "it's blind fanatics," "Democracy is protected because those...comes before all else." That's a fine glass house you're living in.

 

[Taylor]

Okay, pal.

Your level of projection is approaching IMAX.

Do you have any valid reasons for why democratically-elected legislators should not be allowed to legislate during the term they were elected to serve? "I hate democracy" isn't a valid reason, Kobie.

 

[Kobie]

Do you have any valid reasons for why democratically-elected legislators should not be allowed to legislate during the term they were elected to serve? "I hate democracy" isn't a valid reason, Kobie.

Let me ask you this: had the GOP held onto those state offices, would this legislation have even been proposed?

It’s an obscene power grab designed to nullify the results of an election they lost, and you don’t care.

 

[jmotivator]

The peaceful transfer of power is what a Democracy is predicated on. When the people vote and choose somebody else, you step aside and transfer power. Peacefully. Voting to remove power from the people the voters elected is not in line with Democracy.

Or you scream bloody murder, call the election illegitimate and accuse the winner of colluding with the Ruskies.

 

[Cardinal]

Or you scream bloody murder, call the election illegitimate

Actually that's what Republicans were doing for no better reason than that the votes were getting counted. And in the meantime they were harvesting ballots all along.

As I always say, whatever they accuse Democrats of doing is always a de facto announcement of what they plan to do or are already doing.

 

[MSgt]

Let's see... you're whine and whimper about the "generally uneducated conservative...

In which you conveniently chime in. Go on...

...while including in your diatribe such gems as "a constitutions," "it's blind fanatics," "Democracy is protected because those...comes before all else." That's a fine glass house you're living in.

Obviously, I had some grammatical issue there in my haste. But you are more than welcome to try and push past your obtuse position and validate the garbage you have been spewing about how democracy is about a one party system at all costs. If only the average conservative's problem was just a grammatical error, huh?

 

[Taylor]

Let me ask you this: had the GOP held onto those state offices, would this legislation have even been proposed?

It’s an obscene power grab designed to nullify the results of an election they lost, and you don’t care.

Kobie: "Elections have consequences, but only when Democrats win them"

 

[MSgt]

Do you have any valid reasons for why democratically-elected legislators should not be allowed to legislate during the term they were elected to serve? "I hate democracy" isn't a valid reason, Kobie.

I can give you an American history full of valid reasons why a democratically elected legislation should hold constitutional norms above all else. We can start with the obvious - Jim Crow.

I can show you a twentieth century's worth of failed democracies throughout the world for why short-cutting through a constitution's loop holes to maintain absolute power is a stupid man's agenda. We can start with the obvious - European and South American autocracies.

You see, there is proper legislation and then there is the abuse that chips away at a constitution until it becomes "legal" for one Party to rule all. You appear to be celebrating the abuse; and behaving obtusely appears to give you comfort over that.

 

[Taylor]

I can give you an American history of valid reasons why a democratically elected legislation should hold constitutional norms above all else. We can start with the obvious - Jim Crow.

I can show you a twentieth century's worth of failed democracies throughout the world for why short-cutting through a constitution's loop holes to maintain absolute power is a stupid man's agenda. We can start with the obvious - European and South American autocracies.

You see, there is proper legislation and then there is the abuse that chips away at a constitution until it becomes "legal" for one Party to rule all. You appear to be celebrating the abuse.

So a democratically-elected legislative body passing legislation during their constitutionally-specified term is tantamount to autocracy? If you're trying to get a laugh, it's working.

 

[Taylor]

In which you conveniently chime in. Go on...



Obviously, I had some grammatical issue there in my haste. But you are more than welcome to try and push past your obtuse position and validate the garbage you have been spewing about how democracy is about a one party system at all costs. If only the average conservative's problem was just a grammatical error, huh?

Do you know what a one party system is? Please define it for us and tell us how it applies to Wisconsin. I'll wait with my popcorn.

 

[Vadinho]

Wasn't the whole state gerrymandered to the point where dems always had more votes but got whacked in terms of elected officials? As with the national vote, the left usually gets more total votes but lose power due to manipulations by the right.

 

[akyron]

Wait...What? We dont like coups now? What a waste of the last two years.

 

[Saladin4]

Just a small group of white citizens are angry.

Looked like quite a crowd protesting...Hardly small, diverse also...The Republican Lawmakers?.....All white men.....Who looked frightened....Gosh I hope their home addresses don't get out...Just sayin'

 

[jmotivator]

Actually that's what Republicans were doing for no better reason than that the votes were getting counted. And in the meantime they were harvesting ballots all along.

As I always say, whatever they accuse Democrats of doing is always a de facto announcement of what they plan to do or are already doing.

And as always, what you accuse the Republicans of dong is what Democrats plan to do or are already doing. :roll:

 

[Taylor]

Looked like quite a crowd protesting...Hardly small, diverse also...The Republican Lawmakers?.....All white men.....Who looked frightened....Gosh I hope their home addresses don't get out...Just sayin'

There has to be at least dozen or so... all white (since you're counting). What's the population of Wisconsin?

 

[MSgt]

So a democratically-elected legislative body passing legislation during their constitutionally-specified term is tantamount to autocracy?

Historically speaking, it is tantamount to the steps towards autocracy. Do you actually need me to give you examples of the failed democracies in the twentieth century or are you willing to be a big boy here?

A legislative body that seeks to strip power away from all governing bodies, other than itself, is the path toward autocracy. This Wisconsin crap is yet another example of the GOP violating the norms of the Constitution. You see, electing a person to an Office does not give the individual the power to strip power from all other offices in the name of representing his constituents. The Constitutional norms involves an understanding between Congress, the Executive, and the judiciary.

- For example: Congress has the power to impeach. However, according to the norms, abusing the impeachment process simply to get the other guy is not conducive to the spirit of that privilege, the Constitution, and our democracy. It was abused once in history when it was reduced to a partisan tool over a technicality.

- Another example: The Executive has the power to implement Order, but he also knows that this can be abused in a way that undermines Congress, thus undermining the spirit of that privilege, the Constitution, and our democracy. George Washington was clear on this when he set the norm in his own words. But this privilege has been exponentially exacerbated to absurd levels ever since the GOP and Clinton clashed in the 1990s.

Stacking courts, rigging elections, seeking to curtail the power of the elected opponent, and gross gerrymandering are violations of the norms. Add in a consistent attack on the free press and we see plenty of seeds towards the path to autocracy. The twentieth century record is clear. Obviously, the stand-out is Hitler's Nazi Party, which legally rose to power and legally created autonomous power....to the cheers of the obtuse, the desperate, and the stupid. But there are many examples in Europe and in South America.

If you're trying to get a laugh, it's working.

I am looking for an intelligent response. It's not working.

 

[Fearandloathing]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2...ol-outgoing-scott-walker-and-gop-move-cripple

The GOP in action.

The United States is not any longer a democracy. A democracy needs leaders who respect the values of the constitution, its limits on power and rights of citizens not people seeking to become gods.

This is a minor skirmish for what is to come in 2020, as each red state and Trump whittle away at voter registration, the power of who replaces them, and restrictions on the 'right of assembly' - these large demonstrations are the core of the original revolution where "parades" were part of the pre -war work up along with things like the Boston Tea Party.

Watch...Trump will increasingly rage at demonstrators claiming they are made up of rapists and illegal aliens. All nasty little ways to give the Greedy Oppressive Party more of an edge. They realize they don' have to win a majority, just a few red seats more than the Dems.

Then the fun will really start. Withing months martial law will be declared temporarily, which will become permanent, like the Patriot Act.

I have been saying Trump is going to do EVERYTHING humanly possible to stay in power after 2024...

 

[Fearandloathing]

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/common-dreams/

Have a version of the story not written by a leftist snowglobe?

Typical, try to erode the trust of hundreds of outlets, including foreign news organizations who are not part of the fantasy DEEP STATE, as well as first hand accounts....

by using fake news.

Listen, you support a man who is outright lying on average of 12 distinct lies per day. There never was thousands of "arabs" dancing in the streets in New Jersey in 2011, yet Trump STILL insists he saw it first hand. He has convinced the "under informed" followers that a vagabond band of asylum seekers killed a us law enforcement officer by playing for you a five old video of a non related issue.

So, when it comes to the American right I know three things: They are completely dishonest and will do ANYTHING to keep their petty jobs, 2) They care not at all for any provision of the much vaunted Constitution of the United States except the 2nd amendment and 3) they have the morals of a sewer rat....seriously, you elected a bully who pays hush money to whores.
America is not a democracy, it's a business, and in American business ANYTHING goes only profit counts.

I wonder though what it must feel like to know the rest of the world doesn't believe a word you say

 

[Fearandloathing]

All laws should be challenged. Or didn't I make that clear enough for you when I wrote:

Yet you, as a nation, rolled over and whimpered when the Patriot Act was passed.

America stopped being the progressive land in the world 200 years ago, since then "lawmakers" line their own pockets. What's happening here is no less un-democratic because its been done before. It simply shows that Americans have no love for the so-called "freedoms" they cry out about when it's time to get your ratings up with a nice little war somewhere far away.

Trump has been wiping his ass with your beloved constitution since taking office...Nobody believes Americans and their love of the constitution.

You people hate each other, in Christ's name of course, so much I fully expect a bloodbath in my lifetime and I'm 70.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Yet you, as a nation, rolled over and whimpered when the Patriot Act was passed.

Actually the Patriot Act has been challenged in court many many times and several parts have been ruled unconstitutional.

The rest of your post is dribble from someone who obviously doesn't know as much as he thinks he does about what goes on in the US. As evidenced by the fact that you think that Americans "rolled over and whimpered when the Patriot Act was passed". You see, despite what you may think, the vast majority of American's DON'T resort to violence at the drop of a hat.

 

[Taylor]

Historically speaking, it is tantamount to the steps towards autocracy. Do you actually need me to give you examples of the failed democracies in the twentieth century or are you willing to be a big boy here?

I think if you did, it might help you understand the important differences. How long do we have, in your view, before Wisconsin turns into an autocracy?

A legislative body that seeks to strip power away from all governing bodies, other than itself, is the path toward autocracy.

So a legislative body that takes back power from the would-be autocrat is "the path toward autocracy" - you haven't a clue what you're talking about, do you. Just ridiculous.

 

[MSgt]

Do you know what a one party system is? Please define it for us and tell us how it applies to Wisconsin. I'll wait with my popcorn.

Oh, goody. Sure, I'll help you.

Well, a one-Party system is that which denies power to all other Parties. In a fascist or a communist system, this would simply result in nullifying all other Parties. In a democracy, this would be a matter of introducing the "legal" mechanisms that preserve a single power and deny the other, rendering much of the population without representation. Welcome to the many examples of failed democracies -turned autocracies- in the twentieth century, all of which had Constitutions. Let me help you here too:

- Despite the existence of multiple parties in the Japanese system since 1945, other parties were completely ignored for decades. The conservative Party, called the Liberal Democratic Party of Japan (LDP), held power and consistently "won." It wasn't until 1993 that the election was so overwhelmingly against, that the LDP finally lost. It was only then that political scientists could call Japan's system a democracy. Even today, in 2016, it is still considered a "flawed" democracy.

No let's go the other way:

- Hugo Chavez (Venezuela): An elected outsider who railed against the democratic establishment as corrupt. He called his political opponents "rancid pigs" and "traitors." He constantly attacked the media throughout the 1990s and began stacking the courts. In the 2000s, he used his packed loyalists in the courts to force the media to legally stop reporting on politics altogether. In 1999, after using his courts to legally pack the constituent assembly, he gave it the power to dissolve all other state institutions. Because Chavez' decrees were frequently found unconstitutional along the way by the supreme court, he also legally dissolved the supreme court and replaced them with loyalists. Venezuela is an autocracy today.

- Recep Erdogan (Turkey): An elected fundamentalist who still accuses the media of propagating "terrorism." After packing the courts, he used judges to legally render economic punishment on media outlets, forcing many to sell off, in which pro-Erdogan loyalists bought. He used the IS issue to rally people around the flag when calling for snap elections that allowed him to regain control of parliament. And after the failed coup, in which he created the environment for, he exploited the situation with a legal wide-sweeping crackdown by purging 100,000 public officials (all political opponents), shutting down media outlets that criticized him, made 50,000 arrests, and gave himself new executive powers which legally demolished the established parliamentary checks on the executive power.


Sound familiar? Who else do we know who was an outsider, railed against the democratic system as a "swamp," spewed venom towards political opponents, rages against the free press, cares only about loyalty, and has openly denigrated the judiciary?

Chavez and Erdogan are only two twentieth-century examples of how a leader and his uneducated and stupid constituents can "legally" **** up democracy and usher in autocracy, oddly, in the name of democracy. And they did it because they ignored the norms of their Constitutions, exploited loopholes while arguing their "legality," and began tilting the game towards a one-Party system. In other words, they captured the referees, sidelined opponents and critics, and then re-wrote the rules that would maintain a single rule. Hey, look at that....I didn't even do Hitler!

You might want to look at what the GOP has been doing over the recent years across the country wherever it has gained power. Court packing, stripping executive power away from elected governors, racial gerrymandering, and dismissing all criticism as "fake" news has become routine. And the greatest check on these abuses, the constituents, aren't there. They are actually applauding it. And with the average conservative declaring that he/she is willing to do whatever it takes to win, how is that democracy? How is that even the shallowest attempt to respect the Constitution? But you really don't care either do you? You'd rather eat popcorn.